The ragging on Girard is a bit creepy

[Cusefan0307]

I get the compare but it's not really fair to GMac for the overall compare. He was forced to play point AND score thanks to Josh Wright being...um.. less than ideal.

Joe is basically focusing on scoring.

Ast % 33.3 for Gmac to 16.7 for Joe.

As far as the thread, Joe has been pretty good this year. I thought he was getting way too much crap in the BC game and said so. He has his awesome games, his average games, and then the games he should be pulled immediately. He's basically the same as he's been without having to be stuck with the turnovers he got forcing him to be a PG. I think outside of the St Johns game, JBs had a pretty good handle on when you use him this year.

For his career here, he's been starting for 4 years and been in 1 tourney (hopefully this year makes 2) and ultimately I really don't see much improvement in his game over the years. He's just not up to our usual caliber of 4 year starter, but it's NOT HIS FAULT...as has been explained ad nauseum...unfortunately to some pointing this out suggests you hate him.

This is a level headed post, but that’s not what was happening on Twitter last night. I just find it odd that he was the guy getting ragged on more than anyone last night, and I’ve been as critical as anyone on him in the past.

If we had any type of help at forward he wouldn’t need to shoot the ball nearly as much, but JB was fine with the freshmen and Benny.

 

[djcon57]

This is a level headed post, but that’s not what was happening on Twitter last night. I just find it odd that he was the guy getting ragged on more than anyone last night, and I’ve been as critical as anyone on him in the past.

If we had any type of help at forward he wouldn’t need to shoot the ball nearly as much, but JB was fine with the freshmen.

For sure...You arent going to get level headed stuff on twitter.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Joe’s ability to feed and involve Jesse in the offense last year helped develop Jesse and made the rest of us realize that we had real talent at center.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For sure...You arent going to get level headed stuff on twitter.

Twitter = global scale syracusefan game threads

Change my mind

 

[Jasoncuse]

Joe has been far better this year, because he's been mostly off the ball. His D remains a plight, but outside of that rough 3-game stretch he had, he's probably been our best offensive player.

There are far bigger issues on this team than Joe (coaching, forwards, rebounding, overall D, half court O) and next year without his scoring could be a really stark difference.

 

[Manleymen]

Let’s see what happens when the rubber hits the road against upcoming ACC good teams and athletes In the ACC. Seems like many have joined the bandwagon since he took advantage and scored at will against a hapless team with 2 victories. Winning solves just about everything. Joe is one of the last vestiges from last years losing team. Many call his Ill-timed shooting heat checks - a more accurate term for it gets you selectively censored here. When Joe gets his shots and makes them Joe is visible. When not his questionable defense and lack of team stats stand out like a sore thumb And is the proverbial elephant in the room. My hope is he averages 16 ppg, 6 assists, 4 rebounds, 1 steal and makes the extra pass that leads to better open shots. Or make the extra pass - that leads to one more extra pass that leads to an open look. With his experience and savvy - no question he can do this and thereby make himself and his teammates better. AND call me crazy make him a viable shot at All ACC first team.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, I think this has easily been his most solid and consistent season. That stretch when he was awful, Boeheim actually sat him.

And other than that stretch, he’s generally played well. And he’s been on a tear lately.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think it's because Joe is an even-keeled guy on the court and some take that as a lack of effort. If he knows he can't get somewhere quick enough, he doesn't make a big show of pretending like he could. He's certainly not infallible; he's not a good defender, but that has always been primarily a product of size/athleticism more so than effort, imo. Jim Boeheim doesn't really stand for low effort on the defensive end.

Also, Joe can't really do anything against NBA range 3's, which he seems to get dinged for. He usually puts his hand up and gets as close as he can, doing a good job of avoiding fouling. I've watched games with guys who bemoan his 3pt defense because they don't think he's aggressive enough in closing out on shooters. There could be some truth to that but, the vast majority of the time, him sprinting out there and - god forbid - jumping would lead to disaster much more often than it would do any good.

Other notables: He runs around a lot. He gets tired. Going balls to the wall on defense when you're the only guy on the team who can make 2 3's in a row might not be the path to success. Gotta save some juice for scoring points. That's basketball. And he doesn't bounce around a bunch with his arms flailing around over his head. I think that bothers some fans.

I feel like we’re watching two very different players. When I see this level of rationalization it makes me like Joe less.

 

[Brooky03]

I feel like we’re watching two very different players. When I see this level of rationalization it makes me like Joe less.

That’s the thing with judging effort. It’s an opinion, so we all have different experiences that inform our conclusion. In my experience, the guys who look like they’re trying really hard tend to just be spazes (how do you pluralize spaz?).

 

[OrangeDW]

I will say, I think guys whose shot selection can be questionable and who aren’t strong defenders usually tend to draw the ire and frustration of fans. Donte Greene would be a good example.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Both on here and twitter and I myself have been on him for not hustling in the past, but it really doesn't seem to be a big problem lately. It's a bit creepy some of the hate people have for him. He's not a perfect player by any means, but outside of that stretch earlier in the year he's been pretty good and the fact of the matter is he saved us last night down the stretch.

Maybe he can teach the forwards how to rebound.

Some popular twitter handles really need to learn they don't speak for everyone.

Joey was more double espresso ️ last night than tasters choice instant.

Molto bene

 

[Scooch]

Joe's a good player who has been criminally misused for the entirety of his SU career. Put him on one of the squad's we had a decade ago and he's a beloved fan favorite.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Joe had 5 turnovers vs Lousiville...there was a stretch in the first half that was downright awful...but he got it together and had a great game in the end...

 

[Scooch]

I get the compare but it's not really fair to GMac for the overall compare. He was forced to play point AND score thanks to Josh Wright being...um.. less than ideal.

Joe is basically focusing on scoring.

Ast % 33.3 for Gmac to 16.7 for Joe.

As far as the thread, Joe has been pretty good this year. I thought he was getting way too much crap in the BC game and said so. He has his awesome games, his average games, and then the games he should be pulled immediately. He's basically the same as he's been without having to be stuck with the turnovers he got forcing him to be a PG. I think outside of the St Johns game, JBs had a pretty good handle on when you use him this year.

For his career here, he's been starting for 4 years and been in 1 tourney (hopefully this year makes 2) and ultimately I really don't see much improvement in his game over the years. He's just not up to our usual caliber of 4 year starter, but it's NOT HIS FAULT...as has been explained ad nauseum...unfortunately to some pointing this out suggests you hate him.

Agreed.

Joe will go his entire 4 years here without being ranked in the top 25 for as much as a single week.

And that's not his fault.

 

[MikeSU02]

I wouldn't worry about Twitter and any commentary. It's Twitter.

Joe is fine. People can complain all they want, kid has been a starter for four years and takes the most shots per game this year.

Is who he is.

Blaming Joe at this point for anything is letting JB off the hook for the program's downturn.

I mean, Chris Bell is getting to start for us.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I will say, I think guys whose shot selection can be questionable and who aren’t strong defenders usually tend to draw the ire and frustration of fans. Donte Greene would be a good example.

Yeah, that's true.

Guy busts his tail on defense and is a hustle player, he cranks up a goofy shot once in a while and you think "eh, he earned it I guess."

 

[Newhouser]

Joe’s ability to feed and involve Jesse in the offense last year helped develop Jesse and made the rest of us realize that we had real talent at center.

He is still the only player on the team that can regularly feed the ball to the post. It is crazy on how bad we are at that.

 

[shandeezy7]

He is still the only player on the team that can regularly feed the ball to the post. It is crazy on how bad we are at that.

You're forgetting the best passer on the team - Ajak!

 

[malpearl31]

The hatred stems from a love affair over a player who didn't want to be here, and filled gaps the team needed that were not in Joe's skill set. In leaving, that player has not panned out to the expectation that those committed to the affair believed he would.

If there were really people ragging on Joe after last night’s game (and, wow, I’ve never been happier to not be a part of the SU hoops twitter-verse), I’d bet that your statement above describes the root cause of the issue pretty darn well.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

He is still the only player on the team that can regularly feed the ball to the post. It is crazy on how bad we are at that.

So, he's our best at it, but... I know I'm becoming the board apologist for Bell, but Bell has also shown the ability to entry pass from the wing to the block using both bounce passes and a soft lob to Jesse.

 

[atlanticuse]

I will say, I think guys whose shot selection can be questionable and who aren’t strong defenders usually tend to draw the ire and frustration of fans. Donte Greene would be a good example.

We begged for Donte to stay "Dont'e Go"
HIs shot selection was the least contributing factor to my disdain.

JoeG has proven to be really hot - 20+ points - or really cold - 3 points total across two games.

 

[jdubs30]

To me his defensive effort has been noticeably better the Past month. It’s the most hustle he’s shown on that end of the floor in his 4 years here, IMO.

17ppg, 37% from 3 - all while essentially being face guarded. Every time Joe got a sliver of a clean look last night, the Louisville coaches were visibly upset. He’s the first guy they want to stop - being guarded by guys who are usually bigger and stronger than him. And he’s playing with a bunch of freshmen. Judah is great but he’s never really been a PG before. I love Jesse, but he’s not a great passer for a big.

Joe can be frustrating at times, but I think he’s played very well overall this year.

 

[Scott11]

As someone who has gotten killed for being critical of JG3, I'd break him down as follows:
Pros
-great shooter off the pass and when open, set and not fading or off balance
-great free throw shooter who hasn't always been great at the line at the clutch but came through last night
-good option late in the shot clock when everything breaks down as he can hit tough shots

Cons
-lousy ball handler who has trouble getting the ball over half court against a ACC level defender
-often guilty of taking plays off defensively with poor closeouts with no hands up and doesn't always run back on defense, there is no excuse for poor effort
-often poor shot selection and often early in the shot clock and insane heat checks. It feels like if he makes a shot we have to pay a heat check tax.
-dribbles the ball into the ground trying to beat guys off the dribble and ends up killing the shot clock and hurting our chances to get a quality scoring opportunity

Joe has been hurt also by JB not giving him breaks to save his legs and also help him handle his asthma. He also is a 2 in a one's body. As I've said before if he only took good shots and showed more hustle on defense, his other shortcomings would be overlooked and he would be far more popular and ultimately more effective. When he takes open shots with his feet set and body square he is an absolute weapon. But if you are going to compare him to Gerry, I don't recall Gerry ever giving questionable effort nor do I recall him turning the ball over as much as Joe does.

 

[upperdeck]

I think it's because Joe is an even-keeled guy on the court and some take that as a lack of effort. If he knows he can't get somewhere quick enough, he doesn't make a big show of pretending like he could. He's certainly not infallible; he's not a good defender, but that has always been primarily a product of size/athleticism more so than effort, imo. Jim Boeheim doesn't really stand for low effort on the defensive end.

Also, Joe can't really do anything against NBA range 3's, which he seems to get dinged for. He usually puts his hand up and gets as close as he can, doing a good job of avoiding fouling. I've watched games with guys who bemoan his 3pt defense because they don't think he's aggressive enough in closing out on shooters. There could be some truth to that but, the vast majority of the time, him sprinting out there and - god forbid - jumping would lead to disaster much more often than it would do any good.

Other notables: He runs around a lot. He gets tired. Going balls to the wall on defense when you're the only guy on the team who can make 2 3's in a row might not be the path to success. Gotta save some juice for scoring points. That's basketball. And he doesn't bounce around a bunch with his arms flailing around over his head. I think that bothers some fans.

if i was playing against a kid 3-5 inches shorter than me, i didnt really care how much he closed out it wasnt going to change my shot.. The big thing these days is kids jump in so much to the shot to create range that you really have to worry about where they land with the new dumb rules..

 

[CuseFaninVT]

That’s the thing with judging effort. It’s an opinion, so we all have different experiences that inform our conclusion. In my experience, the guys who look like they’re trying really hard tend to just be spazes (how do you pluralize spaz?).

I don’t think we’re supposed to use that word at all, but I’d go with 2 zs