The ragging on Girard is a bit creepy

[djcon57]

The Craig Forth hate was definitely the most digusting thing I’ve seen posted in this forum.

 

[Dinkyspond]

Do we know if he plans on coming back for his 5th year or he’s said he’s gone after this season?

good question

 

[CuseCPT]

agree. Though coach didn’t help the Craig Forth situation. I’d be curious to hear from Craig now if he learned from it and appreciated or still doesn’t like JB. I was at quite a few practices where Craig would mutter under his breath expletives about coach, including one where Coach kicked him out and made him run laps in Manley.

I’m sure Jb was pushing him but there weren’t too many more likable athletes on the hill than Craig during my time there. Extremely hard working, smart guy who busted his ass. Never the most athletic (he was gifted with height) but was a good contributor for four years. And never caused an issue. I have a soft spot for guys like that.

Interesting. I knew a girl that knew him and she told me he didn’t really like playing basketball all that much.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Luckily, the last few mins exclusively is available:

God I was so hyped after this. Then the Virginia game! Me and my father were going crazy in the living room for both.

 

[shandeezy7]

God I was so hyped after this. Then the Virginia game! Me and my father were going crazy in the living room for both.

I was one of about 10 people intently watching that game at 716 Sports Bar immediately following a Sabres game. When it ended, I'm pretty sure I shouted in celebration and got a lot of strange looks from people.

 

[Newhouser]

God I was so hyped after this. Then the Virginia game! Me and my father were going crazy in the living room for both.

Man Lydon was great here - and man Sabonis was a beast. Finally you can see Trevor read that pass as soon as the kid went to the corner and he was in - unbelievable play.

 

[PhatOrange]

Joe is sort of his own worst enemy. Some pet peeves are that he often doesn't hustle after his bad turnovers and he comes across as a chucker, but it's worse when he takes incredibly bad shots at really bad times. He's the the king of nooooooo...oh thank god it went in. These are the controllables.

It's not his fault but he's also been a 4 year starting guard in the worst 4 year stretch of JB's career. With Joe leading the team they've never once eclipsed 20 wins. The record is 62-46 with last years epically bad losing season. That's not on Joe but right or wrong he carries a lot of the burden.

The GMac comparisons are complete non sense. What's the show of hands here who would pick Joe over GMac (in his prime) if we were picking teams? Gerry hit 400 3-pointers over his career and had 648 assists. As a 4 year starting guard won a National Championship and had a record of 103-32. His worst season when he had to lead the team was 23-12 and he still won the Big East Championship. You can argue supporting cast but I just don't think you see the same 4 year run if you insert Joe onto that team instead of Gerry and you certainly wouldn't see the numbers from Joe that GMac put up. GMac was 10x the distributer and still able to light it up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Joe is sort of his own worst enemy. Some pet peeves are that he often doesn't hustle after his bad turnovers and he comes across as a chucker, but it's worse when he takes incredibly bad shots at really bad times. He's the the king of nooooooo...oh thank god it went in. These are the controllables.

It's not his fault but he's also been a 4 year starting guard in the worst 4 year stretch of JB's career. With Joe leading the team they've never once eclipsed 20 wins. The record is 62-46 with last years epically bad losing season. That's not on Joe but right or wrong he carries a lot of the burden.

The GMac comparisons are complete non sense. What's the show of hands here who would pick Joe over GMac (in his prime) if we were picking teams? Gerry hit 400 3-pointers over his career and had 648 assists. As a 4 year starting guard won a National Championship and had a record of 103-32. His worst season when he had to lead the team was 23-12 and he still won the Big East Championship. You can argue supporting cast but I just don't think you see the same 4 year run if you insert Joe onto that team instead of Gerry and you certainly wouldn't see the numbers from Joe that GMac put up. GMac was 10x the distributer and still able to light it up.

Ehh I was speaking specifically to this year. People should have a bigger issue with JB not bringing in good and experienced forwards. That's where the wrath belongs.

The anger this year is misguided and frankly there's a lot of creepyness coming from middle agedish adults on the interwebs.

I've been just as frustrated with Joe in the past for getting big minutes or terrible shot selection, but remember that JB has always had his lead guys take off balanced 20 plus footers instead of running offense for guys he doesn't really want shooting. We've had this discussion about guys taking terrible shots for years. That is unfortunately a symptom of something bigger with our offensive sets.

 

[OrangeDW]

Joe is sort of his own worst enemy. Some pet peeves are that he often doesn't hustle after his bad turnovers and he comes across as a chucker, but it's worse when he takes incredibly bad shots at really bad times. He's the the king of nooooooo...oh thank god it went in. These are the controllables.

It's not his fault but he's also been a 4 year starting guard in the worst 4 year stretch of JB's career. With Joe leading the team they've never once eclipsed 20 wins. The record is 62-46 with last years epically bad losing season. That's not on Joe but right or wrong he carries a lot of the burden.

The GMac comparisons are complete non sense. What's the show of hands here who would pick Joe over GMac (in his prime) if we were picking teams? Gerry hit 400 3-pointers over his career and had 648 assists. As a 4 year starting guard won a National Championship and had a record of 103-32. His worst season when he had to lead the team was 23-12 and he still won the Big East Championship. You can argue supporting cast but I just don't think you see the same 4 year run if you insert Joe onto that team instead of Gerry and you certainly wouldn't see the numbers from Joe that GMac put up. GMac was 10x the distributer and still able to light it up.

I think shooting is the only area where they are comparable - but Gerry was a little better. Both great FT shooters, but Gerry’s %’s were a little higher. And Gerry made an incredible number of big shots - way more than Girard or just about anyone. They are similar this year in that Girard is often the only shooter on the floor just as Gerry often was.

In all the other aspects of the game, I think Gerry was quite a bit better.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think shooting is the only area where they are comparable - but Gerry was a little better. Both great FT shooters, but Gerry’s %’s were a little higher. And Gerry made an incredible number of big shots - way more than Girard or just about anyone. They are similar this year in that Girard is often the only shooter on the floor just as Gerry often was.

In all the other aspects of the game, I think Gerry was quite a bit better.

They are also smaller sized white guys too. So there is that.

 

[Newhouser]

I think shooting is the only area where they are comparable - but Gerry was a little better. Both great FT shooters, but Gerry’s %’s were a little higher. And Gerry made an incredible number of big shots - way more than Girard or just about anyone. They are similar this year in that Girard is often the only shooter on the floor just as Gerry often was.

In all the other aspects of the game, I think Gerry was quite a bit better.

I agree Gerry was better and it isn't close.

 

[PhatOrange]

I think shooting is the only area where they are comparable - but Gerry was a little better. Both great FT shooters, but Gerry’s %’s were a little higher. And Gerry made an incredible number of big shots - way more than Girard or just about anyone. They are similar this year in that Girard is often the only shooter on the floor just as Gerry often was.

In all the other aspects of the game, I think Gerry was quite a bit better.

The shooting percentages are about even but GMac - and I was surprised by this - took a lot more 3 point shots. 400 more.

GMAC attempts
2PA - 554
3PA - 1131

JGIII attempts
2PA - 475
3PA - 705

The other stat I was surprised by was minutes played:

GMAC - 4799
JGIII - 3463

Here are the rest of the main stats

Points
GMAC - 2099
JGIII - 1376

Rebounds
GMAC - 333
JGIII - 313

Assists
GMAC - 648
JGIII - 394

Steals
GMAC - 258
JGIII - 153

Turnovers
GMAC - 380
JGIII - 246

Games
GMAC - 135
JGIII (TBD) - 108

Per 40 minutes GMAC is better in nearly every statistical category but they're very very similar.

McNamara was, I believe, a 2-time First Team All Big East Conference, a 2x Big East Tournament team and Big East Tournament MVP as well as holds the Syracuse record in 3's in a season and 3's in a career. Statistics aside though Gerry was winner, as you said hit big shots, and just from the eyeball standpoint I think was not only a better basketball but also a much better leader.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

I agree that it's at least somewhat misguided. For example, Joe's passivity on defense and 50-50 plays isn't because he isn't tough or doesn't care, but more likely because he has to play 38-40 minutes a night because the drop-off when he's off the floor is so gigantic that he has to avoid foul trouble and conserve energy at all costs. To me, that's a reflection of poor recruiting and player development on the part of the coaches more than anything else. A good staff would either be getting more out of Sy by now or recruited another 2 to spell Joe for 7-10 MPG.

 

[MikeSU02]

I agree Gerry was better and it isn't close.

This.

End of story.

 

[rrlbees]

Dave Bing was better too. The OP is spot on.

 

[OttoMets]

... In both situations the players like to shoot a lot, but are also at time asked to create when the clock is going down due to poor roster construction or lack of talent to do that. They are not good at it, but somebody has to do it and they both are happy to do so it seems.

A bit like Scoop in 2011. I wonder how much overlap there is among the critics then and the defenders now.

 

[kcsu]

Joe is sort of his own worst enemy. Some pet peeves are that he often doesn't hustle after his bad turnovers and he comes across as a chucker, but it's worse when he takes incredibly bad shots at really bad times. He's the the king of nooooooo...oh thank god it went in. These are the controllables.

It's not his fault but he's also been a 4 year starting guard in the worst 4 year stretch of JB's career. With Joe leading the team they've never once eclipsed 20 wins. The record is 62-46 with last years epically bad losing season. That's not on Joe but right or wrong he carries a lot of the burden.

The GMac comparisons are complete non sense. What's the show of hands here who would pick Joe over GMac (in his prime) if we were picking teams? Gerry hit 400 3-pointers over his career and had 648 assists. As a 4 year starting guard won a National Championship and had a record of 103-32. His worst season when he had to lead the team was 23-12 and he still won the Big East Championship. You can argue supporting cast but I just don't think you see the same 4 year run if you insert Joe onto that team instead of Gerry and you certainly wouldn't see the numbers from Joe that GMac put up. GMac was 10x the distributer and still able to light it up.

The two share one trait they are both white
Other than that there is no comparison. Joes a solid player when hes hot. G was a complete player. My sense is G would still crush Joe in a game today

 

[OttoMets]

Luckily, the last few mins exclusively is available:

That was an excellent defensive possession by Cooney.

It's actually fun to watch and rewind five times, isolating each defender. As someone else said, terrific execution.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The two share one trait they are both white
Other than that there is no comparison. Joes a solid player when hes hot. G was a complete player. My sense is G would still crush Joe in a game today

I’m not even sure why Gmac came up in this thread once. Nobody is comparing him to Gmac.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A bit like Scoop in 2011. I wonder how much overlap there is among the critics then and the defenders now.

Brandon Triche was criticized more than Scoop and that was creepy too. It got real personal his senior year and he was playing injured.

 

[kcsu]

Go back and read

 

[Cuse181]

A bit like Scoop in 2011. I wonder how much overlap there is among the critics then and the defenders now.

It’s hilarious to see people talk about scoop so lovingly, I don’t think there was a player who people ripped on more, and more often, than scoop

 

[Cusefan0307]

Go back and read

The only people comparing him to Gmac are the people who’s saying he’s not as good as Gmac. No sht sherlock.

And Judah Mintz isn’t as good as Carmelo Anthony.

I started the thread so don’t tell me how to read.

Maybe if JB brought in some forwards who were ready we wouldn’t be 10-5.

 

[two3zone]

I remember before the season people were worried that Joe would be putting up 25 shots a game. I said we would be fortunate if Joe could put up 20 shots a game. If he takes 4-5 bad shots it’s still a lot better than anyone else shooting on this team. He’s getting really good coming of Jesse’s top of circle screen and the hand off for the jumper. I’m curious to see how Mintz handles Virginia‘s 40 year old point guard.

Hard to disagree with this. At this point Joe taking a fade away 30 footer may be a better shot that anyone not named Jesse takes.

 

[OrangeDW]

It’s hilarious to see people talk about scoop so lovingly, I don’t think there was a player who people ripped on more, and more often, than scoop

I loved Sophomore and Senior Scoop.

Junior Scoop tried to do a bit too much sometimes and could be frustrating.

Just how I remember him.