Fly Rodder
Hall of Pretty Good
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I would rather we didn't find out. But Que sera, sera.Next year will bear it out.
I would rather we didn't find out. But Que sera, sera.Next year will bear it out.
Answer:Entirely off topic, but it's odd to me that Bouie didn't make the NBA and was a second round pick while Danny Schayes was selected 13th overall. Bouie put up much better numbers here and they were the same size. I know Danny had a long and lucrative career, but I would have though Bouie would have lasted a long time in the league based on his size and college numbers.
Adding Sy to arguably the worst zone defense JAB ever trotted out in his 40+ year history was certainly never going to be game-changer for team defense, but he has the one thing you can't coach - speed.Duke scored 88 points.
We were close due to offense
Duke is elite offensively. I think the point is that stats without context can be misleading.Duke scored 88 points.
We were close due to offense
Yeah I just disagree. He has speed compared to Jimmy and Buddy.Adding Sy to arguably the worst zone defense JAB ever trotted out in his 40+ year history was certainly never going to be game-changer for team defense, but he has the one thing you can't coach - speed.
Fast, athletic players is what we are missing and what successful iterations of the Zone usually had in the past (at least sans the center position)
You think a season worth of stats can be misleading?Duke is elite offensively. I think the pint is that stats without context can be misleading.
The key to the zone is length length and more length. We recruited that way for 20 years. We took slower players and sacrificed lateral foot speed for length.Yeah I just disagree. He has speed compared to Jimmy and Buddy.
The key to the zone in the past is fast players, true, it's also length. Symir at 6'3. Joe at 6'1 allegedly.
That would be the smallest starting back court I can remember.
Yeah I just disagree. He has speed compared to Jimmy and Buddy.
The key to the zone in the past is fast players, true, it's also length. Symir at 6'3. Joe at 6'1 allegedly.
That would be the smallest starting back court I can remember.
Duke is elite offensively. I think the point is that stats without context can be misleading.
It's not a big deal - why do we need top 100 kids? - we've been told we have a "sneaky" good class - yawn
Absolutely…..stats are product of ability, strategy and circumstance to a degree. They give a sense of perspective, but they are not the end all be all.You think a season worth of stats can be misleading?
Not going to agree on this one.
Classes like that work really well when you're supplementing the talent you already have on board. Not so great when that talent isn't here yet.I'm all for a solid class that has a large quantity. One out of the five will out perform his rankings. Hopefully two others will be solid four year guys and can contribute down the road. I would expect two to transfer out.
There is value in those classes.
But not where we are now. And there is no balance.
We need to level up in talent across the board at every single position looking forward, assuming this is Jesse's last year.
Absolutely…..stats are product of ability, strategy and circumstance to a degree. They give a sense of perspective, but they are not the end all be all.
The eye test - which you mocked - has significant value. I see Buddy not even trying to close out on shooters or leaking out quickly. Not rotating properly. Sy has intrinsically better ability to cut of lanes and keep people in front of him. As a coach I know Sy will be a positive piece to a defense, not a guy I have to hide or compensate for like Buddy.
No offense, but I think people who quote stats as absolutes miss the bigger picture of what’s happening on the floor.
It’s like looking back at stats from this year and saying “Joe is a better shooter than Buddy”….which someone will do. They don’t take into context what the other team was trying to do.
Everyone put their best defender on Buddy and chose to give open looks to Joe if they had to. It’s not going to be the same next year, when the 6’4” defender is up Joe’s rectum at half court and Sy is getting open looks from 3.
No offense but your eye test is YOUR eye test. That's the point. What you see might be different from what I see from what Jim Boeheim sees vs what Shaka Smart saw. I never said it's the end all, be all. Stats are what they are.Absolutely…..stats are product of ability, strategy and circumstance to a degree. They give a sense of perspective, but they are not the end all be all.
The eye test - which you mocked - has significant value. I see Buddy not even trying to close out on shooters or leaking out quickly. Not rotating properly. Sy has intrinsically better ability to cut of lanes and keep people in front of him. As a coach I know Sy will be a positive piece to a defense, not a guy I have to hide or compensate for like Buddy.
Absolutely…..stats are product of ability, strategy and circumstance to a degree. They give a sense of perspective, but they are not the end all be all.
The eye test - which you mocked - has significant value. I see Buddy not even trying to close out on shooters or leaking out quickly. Not rotating properly. Sy has intrinsically better ability to cut of lanes and keep people in front of him. As a coach I know Sy will be a positive piece to a defense, not a guy I have to hide or compensate for like Buddy.
No offense, but I think people who quote stats as absolutes miss the bigger picture of what’s happening on the floor.
It’s like looking back at stats from this year and saying “Joe is a better shooter than Buddy”….which someone will do. They don’t take into context what the other team was trying to do.
Everyone put their best defender on Buddy and chose to give open looks to Joe if they had to. It’s not going to be the same next year, when the 6’4” defender is up Joe’s rectum at half court and Sy is getting open looks from 3.
chase J and Cole or Frank
He specified already that he doesn't know the status of Cole, so he's not one of the 3 but theoretically could be a 4th.chase J and Cole or Frank
I don't know about Mintz. I'm doubtful though. I really want him here.
We disagree. But I am by no means advocating Sy is a better player than Buddy….and frankly this years team was the worst defensively in JBs tenure. Arguing Buddy Vs Sy defensively is like arguing who had better deck chairs on the titanic.Jake, please take this post with all sincerity that I love ya as a poster and have for the two decades I've been on this board, but...
The best part of all this is we'll see when the season starts. I had similar push back about predictions for this year. So we can see where this bears out.
Again, I can't believe I'm the Buddy defender, but Buddy was our gravitational force on offense. Of course he was going to take defensive possessions off. JB was asking him to shoot 17 times a game.
I see Sy as a guy who cannot stop passes over the top, cannot contest shots from bigger shooters, who doesn't have good wingspan to cut off passing lanes even if his lateral movement is better and first step is quicker.
No offense, but I think people who appropriate the backup QB logic to actual prowess and ability miss the clear definition of what is happening on the floor.
The best we can likely hope for is that Sy is a better rebounder on long rebounds off long shots than Buddy.
Those same stats that everyone guffawed at last year was screaming from the top of the mountain how bad we would be this year and only some of us were attuned to it.
We disagree. But I am by no means advocating Sy is a better player than Buddy….and frankly this years team was the worst defensively in JBs tenure. Arguing Buddy Vs Sy defensively is like arguing who had better deck chairs on the titanic.
But I still think from what I saw this year. Sy offers more on the defensive end, regardless of advanced stats.
Next years team is going to have its own issues defensively as long as Joe and Cole are getting major minutes.
Gotta hope we improve at the 4…
I may have missed it because it’s a long thread, but have we talked about Torrence’s capacity to improve defensively?
He’s reasonably quick and athletic and while he’s not “lengthy”, he also isn’t overly small(like Joe or Flynn). He tries hard. Seems conceivable that in his second year in the system good chance he’ll be a better defender? Just tightening up those rotations and instincts a little bit can make a difference.
Guys who are just flat out too slow or too small or both would seem to have a much lower defensive “ceiling” no matter how many years they play here. Torrence would seem to me to have a higher ceiling on defense than them, and may be a decent defender next year?
That's where I stand. It's not that I don't care about advanced statistics, but Symir has the tools to be a much better defender than Buddy. Buddy's range was tiny. Symir should be able to cover MUCH more ground and play defense more aggressively than Buddy.I may have missed it because it’s a long thread, but have we talked about Torrence’s capacity to improve defensively?
He’s reasonably quick and athletic and while he’s not “lengthy”, he also isn’t overly small(like Joe or Flynn). He tries hard. Seems conceivable that in his second year in the system good chance he’ll be a better defender? Just tightening up those rotations and instincts a little bit can make a difference.
Guys who are just flat out too slow or too small or both would seem to have a much lower defensive “ceiling” no matter how many years they play here. Torrence would seem to me to have a higher ceiling on defense than them, and may be a decent defender next year?