There has been some concern by some that

[orangefog]

Nothing to disagree with here. I just don’t ever see him being an elite defender. So add that in with positively no jump shot whatsoever. I just don’t think he should be pegged as the definite starter and most mins. Obvious contributor.

I think we should be doing everything in our power to recruit over Symir. It is his job to work his ass off in the offseason to develop so that we can't recruit over him. If we are lucky, we end up with a great problem, two point guards deserving of time.

 

[cuseguy]

Why can't one of them play at the 4? My concern would be foul trouble. But, I think they are both athletic enough to cover the area that a forward needs to cover defensively. At least as well, but let's be honest, better than either Cole or Jimmy did this past year. So, the question is offensively. And, Jesse and Frank would not be shooting threes, and we know how JB values his stretch 4's. I think we could run an effective high/low offense when they are on the court together. Our rebounding and defense would be improved, and hopefully our offense wouldn't suffer too much. If it is a way to get Frank to stay, then we should sell him on it. It could get him an extra 10 minutes. If he is looking at 15 at center and 10 at forward, those are starters minutes at many schools.

Our offense and defense would suffer greatly.

 

[Alsacs]

Symir should have played more.
That is without question since he brought a role neither Joe and Buddy could.

I think the lack of good PG around our program has made us thrist for any decent PG play and that is what Torrence showed.

I hope we have another PG on the roster with Torrence and Copeland next year.

 

[OrangeDW]

That's where I stand. It's not that I don't care about advanced statistics, but Symir has the tools to be a much better defender than Buddy. Buddy's range was tiny. Symir should be able to cover MUCH more ground and play defense more aggressively than Buddy.

He at least goes after loose balls like he expects to get them too, and does get a lot of them.

We need more “hustle plays” on both ends of the floor tbh, especially if we’re going to continue to struggle to recruit high end talent.

 

[orangefog]

Our offense and defense would suffer greatly.

I disagree. My optimism is based on us actually having an offense. We haven't really had an offense in a couple of years. But, I would like to see the lineup in action. I don't think the defense could be worse.

 

[cuseguy]

Lineup for Optimists:

PG: Symir (Copeland ... assuming no Mintz and no grad transfer)
SG: Joe G (Taylor)
SF: Cole Swagger (Bunch)
PF: Benny/Frank (Brown)
C: Jesse/Frank (Carey RS)

Departures: Buddy, Jimmy, Sidibe, JBA, Chaz

Unfortunately even this 'best-case scenario' for returning players won't strike fear in opposing defenses. We really need Cole to come back to cement his place as a go-to guy on offense. I would add that Benny starting at the 4 (high ceiling) is not a disaster for Frank (if he returns). As you indicated, Frank - who is offensively limited - could split time at both the 4 and 5 - giving him plenty of PT and improving front line defense and depth.

Who’s the go to guy in that lineup when you need a basket off the dribble?

 

[djcon57]

Who’s the go to guy in that lineup when you need a basket off the dribble?

You hope Cole is hot and give him the Buddy ISO.

 

[OrangeDW]

Who’s the go to guy in that lineup when you need a basket off the dribble?

We don’t have one. THROW IT IN TO JESSE!!

 

[orangefog]

Who’s the go to guy in that lineup when you need a basket off the dribble?

I think that the go to play would be to have Symir drive and make a decision. Draw and dish to Jesse or kick it out to a shooter or take it to the rim if there is no help. If there is help, sometimes the best decision is to just get it up and let the bigs go after it, so long as it hits the rim.

 

[two3zone]

Who’s the go to guy in that lineup when you need a basket off the dribble?

Joe

 

[cuseguy]

Jake, please take this post with all sincerity that I love ya as a poster and have for the two decades I've been on this board, but...

The best part of all this is we'll see when the season starts. I had similar push back about predictions for this year. So we can see where this bears out.

Again, I can't believe I'm the Buddy defender, but Buddy was our gravitational force on offense. Of course he was going to take defensive possessions off. JB was asking him to shoot 17 times a game.

I see Sy as a guy who cannot stop passes over the top, cannot contest shots from bigger shooters, who doesn't have good wingspan to cut off passing lanes even if his lateral movement is better and first step is quicker.

No offense, but I think people who appropriate the backup QB logic to actual prowess and ability miss the clear definition of what is happening on the floor.

The best we can likely hope for is that Sy is a better rebounder on long rebounds off long shots than Buddy.

Those same stats that everyone guffawed at last year was screaming from the top of the mountain how bad we would be this year and only some of us were attuned to it.

Sy will be a better defender than Buddy. That’s not a question. But the dropoff offensively will be huge. That’s why we recruited Mintz and will continue to recruit a scoring guard. It’s not an option. Copeland and Taylor will not be ready to contribute in a meaningful way next season.

 

[cayugacuse]

Frank could easily start at least half the D1 schools.

Our best player plays his position

Neither guy could play much at the 4

We won’t be a good team next year

JB threw him under the bus constantly

He’s a California kid in Syracuse




Love Frank but he has a lot of reasons to transfer if he wanted to. I think he likes Syracuse but that doesn’t mean he’d stay. Too many other factors

So Jessie 4 and Frank 5...Benny 3... pretty athletic group. do what you can after that.

 

[cuseguy]

I think that the go to play would be to have Symir drive and make a decision. Draw and dish to Jesse or kick it out to a shooter or take it to the rim if there is no help. If there is help, sometimes the best decision is to just get it up and let the bigs go after it, so long as it hits the rim.

Who is the shooter besides Joe, who will be double teamed?

 

[cuseguy]

So Jessie 4 and Frank 5...Benny 3... pretty athletic group. do what you can after that.

Not one can shoot from beyond 8 feet. It won’t work.

 

[cuseguy]

Joe

Joe is gonna create his own shot off the dribble? Seriously?

 

[cuseguy]

I disagree. My optimism is based on us actually having an offense. We haven't really had an offense in a couple of years. But, I would like to see the lineup in action. I don't think the defense could be worse.

Where is the offense coming from with that group?

 

[orangefog]

Who is the shooter besides Joe, who will be double teamed?

Hopefully Cole.

 

[cuseguy]

We don’t have one. THROW IT IN TO JESSE!!

Exactly. We don’t have one.

 

[orangefog]

Where is the offense coming from with that group?

Every guy besides Frank can provide offense.

 

[OrangeDW]

Exactly. We don’t have one.

Agreed. However having a star senior center that will hopefully be the go to guy and draw a lot of defensive attention, and having a pass first PG who looks for people and is an effective distributor and decent penetrator might help get our two shooters easier shots?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I may have missed it because it’s a long thread, but have we talked about Torrence’s capacity to improve defensively?

He’s reasonably quick and athletic and while he’s not “lengthy”, he also isn’t overly small(like Joe or Flynn). He tries hard. Seems conceivable that in his second year in the system good chance he’ll be a better defender? Just tightening up those rotations and instincts a little bit can make a difference.

Guys who are just flat out too slow or too small or both would seem to have a much lower defensive “ceiling” no matter how many years they play here. Torrence would seem to me to have a higher ceiling on defense than them, and may be a decent defender next year?

I think this is right. Torrence could become a stronger defender.

Buddy's probably been the same player on that end of the floor since his sophomore year.

 

[cuseguy]

Every guy besides Frank can provide offense.

Benny can’t shoot and averaged 2 ppg last year. He needs to increase that to 12 ppg. We pray.

It would be our worst offense in decades.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

Who’s the go to guy in that lineup when you need a basket off the dribble?

I was suggesting an optimal rotation with the guys we have, rather than descending into a rant about why we lack elite talent.

 

[cuseguy]

Agreed. However having a star senior center that will hopefully be the go to guy and draw a lot of defensive attention, and having a pass first PG who looks for people and is an effective distributor and decent penetrator might help get our two shooters easier shots?

So Cole is returning?

 

[two3zone]

Joe is gonna create his own shot off the dribble? Seriously?

Is Jesse? Benny? The freshman? Not saying Joe is great at this but when you’re the only one somewhat capable of dribbling and chewing gum at the same time he may be the only option.