There has been some concern by some that

[STEVEHOLT]

I think Frank showed a lot of potential this past year. And, what kind of back up center are we going to pull from the portal? Guys in the portal want to start, typically. The ones willing to come off the bench are likely worse than Frank. So, losing Frank would be a loss and a set back.

He has zero touch around the rim . Zero . He has to dunk to score. He can’t even function as a garbage scorer because even if he gets his hands on an offensive board , it gets taken away. He could hardly even get fg attempts off the latter few games .. he’s a fairly athletic energy guy .. it’s not nothing.. it’s just not something along the lines of the catastrophic event it’s being made out to be

 

[CousCuse]

He has zero touch around the rim . Zero . He has to dunk to score. He can’t even function as a garbage scorer because even if he gets his hands on an offensive board , it gets taken away. He could hardly even get fg attempts off the latter few games .. he’s a fairly athletic energy guy .. it’s not nothing.. it’s just not something along the lines of the catastrophic event it’s being made out to be

He is a fierce rebounder and has gotten better on D.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes, Sy wasn't very good.

We're also taking size off the floor.

We're talking a guy with a -0.1 DBPM that had a fraction of the offensive load that Buddy had who was at 0.0. Sy at least had a decent rebounding % while on the floor, but his steal % was lower than Buddy's was.

In a half court set, opposing teams are going to be able to clear passes and shots over the top of Sy and Joe. Both guys have minimal height and wingspan. Maybe Sy has better lateral movement, but that's about it.

Six in one hand, half a dozen in the other, and we just took a first team All ACC guy off the floor. And, listen, anyone that has seen me post knows how hard I was on Buddy, but it's undeniable that dude could at least get his own shot if the offense was stuck.

We're in big, big trouble.

The formula ends up looking something like

Incremental overall improvement from Joe + Symir's ability to get others good shots + Symir improving on defense = a better starting backcourt than Joe and Buddy with all their known +s and -s

You gotta squint, but if you do you can somewhat see the possibility.

Lot of stuff needs to go right.

 

[Orangezoo]

The formula ends up looking something like

Incremental overall improvement from Joe + Symir's ability to get others good shots + Symir improving on defense = a better starting backcourt than Joe and Buddy with all their known +s and -s

You gotta squint, but if you do you can somewhat see the possibility.

Lot of stuff needs to go right.

Starting with Cole returning or a portal guy who is just as lethal a scorer/shooter. Without that Joe won't get a single open look. He doesn't have the speed off the ball or work rate to run off screens non stop like a Cooney.

 

[Cuse181]

Tell us then how great this class is and will make us a tournament team and top 25 next year. The actual reviews of kids on the recruiting board does not paint a picture of a top 25 class.

Early on there was hope that the growth in the final year for each of these kids would have this class sniffing top 10 but it just never played out that way. Here is to hoping they all surprise but it's just hard to see that based on the film to date.

I’m just saying that there is always a complaint. If syracuse adds Mintz they get to a top 15 class, people will still complain that it is only because of volume. Last year some complained that the class was so low rated even though it was because they brought in 1 high four star. The argument has nothing to do with whether the team is good enough, it’s just the obvious presentation of shifting goalposts.

 

[two3zone]

I’m just saying that there is always a complaint. If syracuse adds Mintz they get to a top 15 class, people will still complain that it only because of volume. Last year they complained that the class was rated so awfully even though it was because they brought in 1 high four star. The argument has nothing to do with whether the team is good enough, it’s the goalpost shifting

You’re the one moving goal posts and can’t commit to your own comments.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I’m just saying that there is always a complaint. If syracuse adds Mintz they get to a top 15 class, people will still complain that it is only because of volume. Last year some complained that the class was so low rated even though it was because they brought in 1 high four star. The argument has nothing to do with whether the team is good enough, it’s just the obvious presentation of shifting goalposts.

I reserve the right to complain when things suck

 

[Cuse181]

You’re the one moving goal posts and can’t commit to your own comments.

Here I am thinking that when I press “post reply” that I’m committing, when I actually need to await validation from two3zone. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[two3zone]

Here I am thinking that when I press “post reply” that I’m committing, when I actually need to await validation from two3zone. Thanks for clarifying.

You can’t even validate yourself. You can’t even post a take without jumping to the other side and back.

 

[Melancer46]

I’m just saying that there is always a complaint. If syracuse adds Mintz they get to a top 15 class, people will still complain that it is only because of volume. Last year some complained that the class was so low rated even though it was because they brought in 1 high four star. The argument has nothing to do with whether the team is good enough, it’s just the obvious presentation of shifting goalposts.

I don’t think anybody complained about Benny as a quality recruit. The complaints were that we were bringing in mediocre transfers for a team that needed much more than that to compete, which turned out to be correct.

The complaints this year are that the quality of the recruits is not good this year for a team that needs much more to compete. We’ll see if that turns out to be correct.

 

[Cuse181]

You can’t even validate yourself. You can’t even post a take without jumping to the other side and back.

Or maybe you lack the ability to look beyond your own beliefs which is clouding your ability to take a statement for what it is.

Complaints were made last year about Syracuse's classes being ranked 75th even though the obvious reason was a small class size. People wanted higher rankings, well how does that happen? You sign more players. This year they’re Top 25, and the complaint is that it’s only volume driven, that’s shifting goalposts. If your argument is overall class talent, fine! You’re not who I’m talking to at this point in time.

I’m pointing to one distinct situation where there is a direct dichotomy of thought process this year versus last, and I committed to it by posting it. I’m not sure what got your panties in a wad but I’m assuming it has nothing to do with my comment.

 

[djcon57]

There’s no way SY is worse defensively than Buddy. We already have proof

Per EVANMIYA.com:

Buddy's DBPR = +2.3
Sy's DBPR = -0.7

Buddy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = +19.3
Sy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = -7.1

Team Defensive when Buddy and Joe were on the floor together = 105.4
Team Defensive when Sy and Joe were on the floor together = 114.7

Proof.

Symir isn't, wasn't, and won't be KR. The idea he was some lights out defender or massively better than Buddy is simply not true. The numbers prove it.

Where's your proof? Eye test?

 

[MikeSU02]

Per EVANMIYA.com:

Buddy's DBPR = +2.3
Sy's DBPR = -0.7

Buddy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = +19.3
Sy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = -7.1

Team Defensive when Buddy and Joe were on the floor together = 105.4
Team Defensive when Sy and Joe were on the floor together = 114.7

Proof.

Symir isn't, wasn't, and won't be KR. The idea he was some lights out defender or massively better than Buddy is simply not true. The numbers prove it.

Where's your proof? Eye test?

Yeah, the world may stop spinning seeing as how much I'm defending Buddy lately, but appreciate you doing the numbers.

I like Sy. I do. I think he has room to grow on the defensive side of the ball, but he just wasn't a good defender and even with growth, I don't think he'll be very impactful on the defensive side of the ball.

Buddy made up for some of his defensive deficiency with steals. The best I'm hoping for is Sy has a knack for getting boards that we may have given up previously (think long rebounds) and understanding where to be. And rebounding is part of defense.

But, overall, our backcourt will most likely be pretty bad defensively again.

 

[Melancer46]

Per EVANMIYA.com:

Buddy's DBPR = +2.3
Sy's DBPR = -0.7

Buddy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = +19.3
Sy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = -7.1

Team Defensive when Buddy and Joe were on the floor together = 105.4
Team Defensive when Sy and Joe were on the floor together = 114.7

Proof.

Symir isn't, wasn't, and won't be KR. The idea he was some lights out defender or massively better than Buddy is simply not true. The numbers prove it.

Where's your proof? Eye test?

I get it, because Buddy was not good defensively and Symir is obviously much more athletic. But yeah, Symir was a poor defender in his own right.

 

[BillSU]

Disappointing. They should be trying to improve the roster as much as possible coming off a losing season. I don't get the feeling we are trying to win next year. It feels like a developmental year for the new guys. UGH.

Bingo!

 

[Trueblue25]

Yea part of the reason is quantity. It’s the same formula for everyone. You could grab one guy higher rated than all these guys like we did last year. Which class is better? I’ll take the 5 guys. Your chances of striking gold with one or two is far better than just a one man class like last year.

5 or so years ago I’d agree. But not in today’s portal climate, and not with the state of our current roster management.

We better hope one or two are ready to go and contribute this year. Chances are there will be only 2 or 3 of them still on the team by the time they’re entering their 3rd year.

Big HS classes are great when they stick around to develop. We’re not pulling in multiple p5 ready players per class like Duke and Kansas. Looking at the tape I’m not sure which may be ready to contribute meaningfully now.

 

[Orangezoo]

Per EVANMIYA.com:

Buddy's DBPR = +2.3
Sy's DBPR = -0.7

Buddy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = +19.3
Sy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = -7.1

Team Defensive when Buddy and Joe were on the floor together = 105.4
Team Defensive when Sy and Joe were on the floor together = 114.7

Proof.

Symir isn't, wasn't, and won't be KR. The idea he was some lights out defender or massively better than Buddy is simply not true. The numbers prove it.

Where's your proof? Eye test?

And this is why not bringing in a solid PG is an issue especially since Copeland isn't ready for prime time from the sounds.

 

[djcon57]

And this is why not bringing in a solid PG is an issue especially since Copeland isn't ready for prime time from the sounds.

yeah, just to clarify, my post isnt suggesting Buddy is some great defender or Symir wont get better this year.

It's suggesting he DID NOT show to be an elite defender by any means. He wasn't that much better than Buddy and the idea that the improvement in his defense alone will counter the offense of an All ACC player, just doesn't seem like reality.

He's part of the puzzle for sure, so is Joe. Rolling them out 35 mins a game from each will not work. We need better players and more options.

 

[Orangezoo]

yeah, just to clarify, my post isnt suggesting Buddy is some great defender or Symir wont get better this year.

It's suggesting he DID NOT show to be an elite defender by any means. He wasn't that much better than Buddy and the idea that the improvement in his defense alone will counter the offense of an All ACC player, just doesn't seem like reality.

He's part of the puzzle for sure, so is Joe. Rolling them out 35 mins a game from each will not work. We need better players and more options.

Yep I followed completely.

 

[Cuseball]

Per EVANMIYA.com:

Buddy's DBPR = +2.3
Sy's DBPR = -0.7

Buddy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = +19.3
Sy's On-Off Defensive Spilts = -7.1

Team Defensive when Buddy and Joe were on the floor together = 105.4
Team Defensive when Sy and Joe were on the floor together = 114.7

Proof.

Symir isn't, wasn't, and won't be KR. The idea he was some lights out defender or massively better than Buddy is simply not true. The numbers prove it.

Where's your proof? Eye test?

This is a good data and I have nothing credible to back it up but I suspect Symir's ratings might have been a bit hampered by the fact:

• he usually subbed in with the strange grouping of Benny and Frank along with him. I think that lineup while more athletic was not good defensively last year. in other words the starting unit played better defense even though they were very limited athletically.
• The one chance Symir got to start he played against Duke which won't help your defensive numbers. Cuse also played a bunch of different defensives against duke as a kitchen sink approach. we cant guard them in zone and certainly not in man

Cuse!

 

[AZOrange]

yeah, just to clarify, my post isnt suggesting Buddy is some great defender or Symir wont get better this year.

It's suggesting he DID NOT show to be an elite defender by any means. He wasn't that much better than Buddy and the idea that the improvement in his defense alone will counter the offense of an All ACC player, just doesn't seem like reality.

He's part of the puzzle for sure, so is Joe. Rolling them out 35 mins a game from each will not work. We need better players and more options.

I don’t think anyone was saying any of what you said. I merely said that anyone that thinks Buddy and SY are equal defenders are crazy. Next year will bear it out.

 

[djcon57]

I don’t think anyone was saying any of what you said. I merely said that anyone that thinks Buddy and SY are equal defenders are crazy. Next year will bear it out.

Next year is next year.

This year per almost every analytical statistic out there, your opinion is incorrect. Buddy was in fact a better defender than Sy. trust me, I wanted Symir to be better. He wasn't.

I posted numbers, facts. You guys have eye tests, "did you watch, lol" and "anyone who thinks that are crazy"

You also said you had proof.

 

[kingtidge]

I don’t think anyone was saying any of what you said. I merely said that anyone that thinks Buddy and SY are equal defenders are crazy. Next year will bear it out.

One game anomaly perhaps... but the fact Duke didn't run us out of the gym in the ACC tourney (like the prior 2 games) with Sy starting and buddy benched... that was a solid bellweather IMO.

 

[djcon57]

One game anomaly perhaps... but the fact Duke didn't run us out of the gym in the ACC tourney (like the prior 2 games) with Sy starting and buddy benched... that was a solid bellweather IMO.

Duke scored 88 points.
We were close due to offense

 

[Melancer46]

Duke scored 88 points.
We were close due to offense

And the players that we expect to return next season scored 30-45 points in that game on 9/26 shooting or 13/41 shooting depending on what happens with Cole.