Things wrong with the basketball program that do not include NIL.

[Cusefan0307]

This is not a discussion to complain about NIL. Yes, it can be better, but we have other issues frankly some are using it as an excuse for everything else that’s wrong.

Our offense is terrible. We are still trying to rely on one person to create with zero off ball movement like it’s the 90’s and 00’s. We stand around possession after possession. We continue to be dinosaurs when it comes to prioritizing the 3 point shot.

We do not play with nearly the intensity of our opponents. Whether that’s due to being out of shape(Lampkin) or low energy(Bell) you cannot be successful if we consistently have less energy than our opponents.

Thr defebar is worse than the offense. We don’t stop dribble drives and we don’t help when we get beat. We continue to not communicate when our guys are screened.

Again NIL can be better, but there’s a lot of other coaches doing more with less than Red.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Hitching his career to Chris Bell, JJ Starling, and Chance Westry was the beginning of the end. Terrible decision making.

 

[pwong]

Talent will mask some of the coaching flaws but realistically we will never have a well coached basketball team with Red in charge.

We need more NIL but we aren’t super poor (like a SH, BC, Minn, V Tech) and we aren’t super untalented (like those teams).

 

[Dr. Bill]

This is not a discussion to complain about NIL. Yes, it can be better, but we have other issues frankly some are using it as an excuse for everything else that’s wrong.

Our offense is terrible. We are still trying to rely on one person to create with zero off ball movement like it’s the 90’s and 00’s. We stand around possession after possession. We continue to be dinosaurs when it comes to prioritizing the 3 point shot.

We do not play with nearly the intensity of our opponents. Whether that’s due to being out of shape(Lampkin) or low energy(Bell) you cannot be successful if we consistently have less energy than our opponents.

Thr defebar is worse than the offense. We don’t stop dribble drives and we don’t help when we get beat. We continue to not communicate when our guys are screened.

Again NIL can be better, but there’s a lot of other coaches doing more with less than Red.

"A lot of other Coaches doing more with less than Red"...Really?... How about our players just are not very good! All the deficiencies you site in your post...better players..those things are not an issue. You name me one big time program with less point guard talent than we have! Three point shooting is only a weapon...if you can make some 3 point shots! Defense?..Desire, effort, athleticism, just don't see it in these players. Syracuse always had great forwards...name one forward on this team that fits the bill like John Wallace, Steven Thompson, Billy Owen, Derrick Coleman, Raf Addison, Mello, Hakim Warrick,Louis Orr, Dale Shackleford, CJ Fair..... And let's not talk about point guards... Red, Pearl, Gmac, Sherm...I think you get the point. There is no player on this current roster that you can match up one for one at their respective positions with any player on this list. Stop blaming the coach, when the players are not great. Yes, the coach is picking the players...and NIl may have something to do with the quality of players we get....

 

[sufandu]

The most frustrating thing to me is the effort. If you're not talented, and we're not, you make up for it by working harder. The guys on the floor should be hustling and expending so much energy that they're too exhausted to play more than 25 min. Fight for every rebound, deny passes, constantly move without the ball. This team plays dumb and lazy.

 

[23Zone]

"A lot of other Coaches doing more with less than Red"...Really?... How about our players just are not very good! All the deficiencies you site in your post...better players..those things are not an issue. You name me one big time program with less point guard talent than we have! Three point shooting is only a weapon...if you can make some 3 point shots! Defense?..Desire, effort, athleticism, just don't see it in these players. Syracuse always had great forwards...name one forward on this team that fits the bill like John Wallace, Steven Thompson, Billy Owen, Derrick Coleman, Raf Addison, Mello, Hakim Warrick,Louis Orr, Dale Shackleford, CJ Fair... And let's not talk about point guards... Red, Pearl, Gmac, Sherm...I think you get the point. There is no player on this current roster that you can match up one for one at their respective positions with any player on this list. Stop blaming the coach, when the players are not great. Yes, the coach is picking the players...and NIl may have something to do with the quality of players we get...

Agree and disagree.

At the end of the day, the coach is responsible for the roster and identifying talent. Autry has failed miserably and has transformed the program into an insufferable clown show

 

[sufandu]

...name one forward on this team that fits the bill like John Wallace, Steven Thompson, Billy Owen, Derrick Coleman, Raf Addison, Mello, Hakim Warrick,Louis Orr, Dale Shackleford, CJ Fair...

I think Freeman could be Wallace, but will we get to see it? Wallace was good from the jump but didn't have to carry a team his first couple years because he had a team around him. He had time to develop. Will Freeman stick around long enough for us to benefit from his development or will it be another Jerami Grant where we look at his nice NBA career and wonder what might've been?

 

[JuiceMeUp]

"A lot of other Coaches doing more with less than Red"...Really?... How about our players just are not very good! All the deficiencies you site in your post...better players..those things are not an issue. You name me one big time program with less point guard talent than we have! Three point shooting is only a weapon...if you can make some 3 point shots! Defense?..Desire, effort, athleticism, just don't see it in these players. Syracuse always had great forwards...name one forward on this team that fits the bill like John Wallace, Steven Thompson, Billy Owen, Derrick Coleman, Raf Addison, Mello, Hakim Warrick,Louis Orr, Dale Shackleford, CJ Fair... And let's not talk about point guards... Red, Pearl, Gmac, Sherm...I think you get the point. There is no player on this current roster that you can match up one for one at their respective positions with any player on this list. Stop blaming the coach, when the players are not great. Yes, the coach is picking the players...and NIl may have something to do with the quality of players we get...

The coach literally chooses the players, as you highlighted. Does he wish he had more money to pick better players? I’m sure he does. But unless we wake up to 2mil in NIL laying under the Xmas tree not much is changing.

So you need a coach who can find undervalued players that can mesh to a system and DEVELOP them, both of which he has shown zero, and I mean zero, ability to do. We don’t even have a system, or an identity, or anything. I genuinely don’t even know what I’m watching half the time. You are probably right that he’s not in the best position to succeed, but if the situation itself isn’t changing you need to find someone who has the skills to make the most of what we have. We both know that person isn’t Red right now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

"A lot of other Coaches doing more with less than Red"...Really?... How about our players just are not very good! All the deficiencies you site in your post...better players..those things are not an issue. You name me one big time program with less point guard talent than we have! Three point shooting is only a weapon...if you can make some 3 point shots! Defense?..Desire, effort, athleticism, just don't see it in these players. Syracuse always had great forwards...name one forward on this team that fits the bill like John Wallace, Steven Thompson, Billy Owen, Derrick Coleman, Raf Addison, Mello, Hakim Warrick,Louis Orr, Dale Shackleford, CJ Fair... And let's not talk about point guards... Red, Pearl, Gmac, Sherm...I think you get the point. There is no player on this current roster that you can match up one for one at their respective positions with any player on this list. Stop blaming the coach, when the players are not great. Yes, the coach is picking the players...and NIl may have something to do with the quality of players we get...

There’s two McDonalds All Americans on the roster when we went to double OT with Youngstown state. Lampkin was chosen by our staff to be our center. Chris Bell is a former top 100 recruit who shot 42% from 3 last year. Moore is a top 100 recruit.

 

[Otto21]

Could it be that this is why a small contingent of alums are so angry, calling our staff a clown show? Ie Scoop, DC, GMAC leaving? I realize there are other viable alternative explanations for their behavior (sour grapes, ego, HC experience), but this is the first time I’ve seen alums attack the staff on the basketball side. When family is supposedly
our MO. Just curious is all…

 

[dasher]

Could it be that this is why a small contingent of alums are so angry, calling our staff a clown show? Ie Scoop, DC, GMAC leaving? I realize there are other viable alternative explanations for their behavior (sour grapes, ego, HC experience), but this is the first time I’ve seen alums attack the staff on the basketball side. When family is supposedly
our MO. Just curious is all…

DC has a lawsuit with the University. Scoop I think wanted to be a coach.

 

[dasher]

This is not a discussion to complain about NIL. Yes, it can be better, but we have other issues frankly some are using it as an excuse for everything else that’s wrong.

Our offense is terrible. We are still trying to rely on one person to create with zero off ball movement like it’s the 90’s and 00’s. We stand around possession after possession. We continue to be dinosaurs when it comes to prioritizing the 3 point shot.

We do not play with nearly the intensity of our opponents. Whether that’s due to being out of shape(Lampkin) or low energy(Bell) you cannot be successful if we consistently have less energy than our opponents.

Thr defebar is worse than the offense. We don’t stop dribble drives and we don’t help when we get beat. We continue to not communicate when our guys are screened.

Again NIL can be better, but there’s a lot of other coaches doing more with less than Red.

I think what you are underplaying is when some us us talk about NIL, we are not excusing the coaching. Or the selection of the players we do get with the Nil we do have. Just to add that it is a big problem that we have to meet and change. I don't know what part of Red is doing nothing well as a coach other than recruit you don't see as a criticism of Red by those of us that bring up NiL?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The most frustrating thing to me is the effort. If you're not talented, and we're not, you make up for it by working harder. The guys on the floor should be hustling and expending so much energy that they're too exhausted to play more than 25 min. Fight for every rebound, deny passes, constantly move without the ball. This team plays dumb and lazy.

Yeah, we regularly start games looking unprepared to play basketball and disinterested. Zero intensity at the start of games. It's bizarre, but consistent, and indicates something is very wrong.

 

[Scooch]

I think what you are underplaying is when some us us talk about NIL, we are not excusing the coaching. Or the selection of the players we do get with the Nil we do have. Just to add that it is a big problem that we have to meet and change. I don't know what part of Red is doing nothing well as a coach other than recruit you don't see as a criticism of Red by those of us that bring up NiL?

There seem to be folks who are lumping NIL and some vague “Chancellor problem” together to contend that the program is utterly screwed regardless of Autry’s head coaching ability.

It’s also some of the same folks who were adamant that SU football was not capable of winning more than 7 games because of NIL and vague insider stuff that the masses couldn’t be told.

Playing an average mid major point guard for 40 minutes has little to do with NIL. In my opinion.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There seem to be folks who are lumping NIL and some vague “Chancellor problem” together to contend that the program is utterly screwed regardless of Autry’s head coaching ability.

It’s also some of the same folks who were adamant that SU football was not capable of winning more than 7 games because of NIL and vague insider stuff that the masses couldn’t be told.

Playing an average mid major point guard for 40 minutes has little to do with NIL. In my opinion.

Symir Torrence was better.

 

[wiCuse]

Here's my quick list of things missing: no accountability, identity, lack of game plan, lack of player development, and the team is trending in the wrong direction (no game to game improvement).

I'd be fine giving Red a third season if he held players accountable and demonstrated improvement game to game. There isn't a vision for the basketball program. The only positive I can identify is high school recruiting. However, Freeman is not developing like a player of his talent should be.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think what you are underplaying is when some us us talk about NIL, we are not excusing the coaching. Or the selection of the players we do get with the Nil we do have. Just to add that it is a big problem that we have to meet and change. I don't know what part of Red is doing nothing well as a coach other than recruit you don't see as a criticism of Red by those of us that bring up NiL?

I want more NIL. I’ve said as much in other threads, but I also don’t think another million dollars solves our problems. There’s schools with less resources than us doing better and I am a bit frustrated some are having a difficult time acknowledging that. I agree with you on almost everything regarding the program. Outside of HS recruiting we are doing nothing else well.

 

[sufandu]

Agree and disagree.

At the end of the day, the coach is responsible for the roster and identifying talent. Autry has failed miserably and has transformed the program into an insufferable clown show

You can't talk about talent without mentioning NIL. Is Red not identifying talent or is he not landing it? If he's identifying but not landing what's the issue? Is it because he's a poor recruiter or is it we don't have the funds? He's landed more high end high school players in his first two classes than JB did in his last 5+, including the highest rated one since Carmelo. My concern is that the talent will be squandered. I don't see a team that plays smart or hard, and you don't need elite talent to have those two things.

 

[Cusefan0307]

You can't talk about talent without mentioning NIL. Is Red not identifying talent or is he not landing it? If he's identifying but not landing what's the issue? Is it because he's a poor recruiter or is it we don't have the funds? He's landed more high end high school players in his first two classes than JB did in his last 5+, including the highest rated one since Carmelo. My concern is that the talent will be squandered. I don't see a team that plays smart or hard, and you don't need elite talent to have those two things.

Your last sentence says it all. Our offense is pathetic. We stand around and watch the guy with the ball and we don’t play hard enough. We look like an AAU team.

 

[Ghost]

Symir Torrence was better.

Considerably better.

 

[Ghost]

Your last sentence says it all. Our offense is pathetic. We stand around and watch the guy with the ball and we don’t play hard enough. We look like an AAU team.

Right. Whether it was with Starling, or Carlos...as we saw early in the season we needed something more structured. Judah could thrive in this sort of offense, but Starling? Carlos?

 

[dbrave]

I don’t want to put the cross on the shoulders of Carlos ( i hope this phrase exist in english like in italian…) but for a player that has the ball so much time in his hands, he creates too little. I mean, if he could beat his man off the dribble, he would force other defenders to rotate on him, freeing up space for the shooter ( mr bell, i am thinking of you!). Instead, it seems to me that in this team his only task is to carry the ball to start an apparearence of offense

 

[Zelda Zonk]

"A lot of other Coaches doing more with less than Red"...Really?... How about our players just are not very good! All the deficiencies you site in your post...better players..those things are not an issue. You name me one big time program with less point guard talent than we have! Three point shooting is only a weapon...if you can make some 3 point shots! Defense?..Desire, effort, athleticism, just don't see it in these players. Syracuse always had great forwards...name one forward on this team that fits the bill like John Wallace, Steven Thompson, Billy Owen, Derrick Coleman, Raf Addison, Mello, Hakim Warrick,Louis Orr, Dale Shackleford, CJ Fair... And let's not talk about point guards... Red, Pearl, Gmac, Sherm...I think you get the point. There is no player on this current roster that you can match up one for one at their respective positions with any player on this list. Stop blaming the coach, when the players are not great. Yes, the coach is picking the players...and NIl may have something to do with the quality of players we get...

Talent is certainly an issue. But we have played bad and lower level teams this season who have less talent than we have, yet they still are able to play with fundamental, basic techniques. Talent level does not excuse the execution issues.

You name an impressive list of past Orange, but teams we are losing to or battling down to the wire do not have players at that level, either.

We don’t even do the simple, logical things. There has never seemed to be any scheme to get Bell open for shots. Even Moore has to create for himself. Watch any Golden State game and see the myriad ways they create space for Curry. You don’t have to have Curry’s insane talent to create those same types of opportunities for Bell. Or anyone, for that matter.

We have experienced players who aren’t playing smart. Davis had inexplicable turnovers yesterday. He had one play on offense where he caught the ball at the FT line, and with no one close to him, he made an unnecessary left-right dribble move (no one guarding him!) and then two steps deeper into the paint, he pulls up—for a fade away jumper. Also, with no one contesting it. Clank.

We consistently put up more ugly shots and bricks than the opponent, and most of the time, it’s not due to challenging defense.

On defense for us, good lord—it’s nightmarish. People lose their assignments, overcompensate, switch for no reason, can‘t/don‘t fight over the top of a pick, don’t know how to both box out and rebound at the same time…. Basic stuff the other teams do, even with lesser talent.

That all comes down to coaching, on multiple levels. The staff assessed the players in HS and in their former college programs. The players were chosen by the staff. The players are trained by the staff. The players are enabled by the staff. The only part of that formula/sequence that is less-determined by the staff is the matter of who they could afford to get, but the staff still determined the pool from which players would be contacted and offered.

 

[Dr. Bill]

Talent is certainly an issue. But we have played bad and lower level teams this season who have less talent than we have, yet they still are able to play with fundamental, basic techniques. Talent level does not excuse the execution issues.

You name an impressive list of past Orange, but teams we are losing to or battling down to the wire do not have players at that level, either.

We don’t even do the simple, logical things. There has never seemed to be any scheme to get Bell open for shots. Even Moore has to create for himself. Watch any Golden State game and see the myriad ways they create space for Curry. You don’t have to have Curry’s insane talent to create those same types of opportunities for Bell. Or anyone, for that matter.

We have experienced players who aren’t playing smart. Davis had inexplicable turnovers yesterday. He had one play on offense where he caught the ball at the FT line, and with no one close to him, he made an unnecessary left-right dribble move (no one guarding him!) and then two steps deeper into the paint, he pulls up—for a fade away jumper. Also, with no one contesting it. Clank.

We consistently put up more ugly shots and bricks than the opponent, and most of the time, it’s not due to challenging defense.

On defense for us, good lord—it’s nightmarish. People lose their assignments, overcompensate, switch for no reason, can‘t/don‘t fight over the top of a pick, don’t know how to both box out and rebound at the same time…. Basic stuff the other teams do, even with lesser talent.

That all comes down to coaching, on multiple levels. The staff assessed the players in HS and in their former college programs. The players were chosen by the staff. The players are trained by the staff. The players are enabled by the staff. The only part of that formula/sequence that is less-determined by the staff is the matter of who they could afford to get, but the staff still determined the pool from which players would be contacted and offered.

All player issues...my point exactly. We can't make shots...we lose to teams that you claim have "less talent"...but they are scoring points and making shots... We can debate coaching or lack there of...all day, having coached High School girls's basketball, I will go to my grave saying players win game! Good coaching can make a difference for sure...but the best of coaches will struggle against teams where there is a significant talent disparity.

 

[Dr. Bill]

There’s two McDonalds All Americans on the roster when we went to double OT with Youngstown state. Lampkin was chosen by our staff to be our center. Chris Bell is a former top 100 recruit who shot 42% from 3 last year. Moore is a top 100 recruit.

Forget labels!!!! Mickie D all american # 1 is JJ from Notre Dame- he is playing pretty well, but is hurt now. Mickie D all american # 2... Freeman, Is a freshman, shows promise, but is foul prone, plays no defense and is getting outplayed by more experienced players he is facing on other teams. Can't say he is making a Carmeloo Anthony type impact can you? Bell may have been a Type 100 player, but is he playing at the level of a CJ fair, Chris Joseph, Raphiel Addison? He cn't make a shot right now, and when he was shooting well last year, that was all he could do, no rebounds, no defense, read the posts from last year, peole complained about his lack of rebounding. The point is ...our team is not very good!! We have so many players with incomplete games. The type of talent we are used to seeingat Syracuse, just isn't there! Stop blaming coaching...we don't have the horses to comepte in the race!