U.S. Open

[jordoo]

I read the article, and don't have a problem with the comments from any of the players, including Woods and McIlroy, I just appreciate it when they're honest. And I don't consider Johnson's comments "whining" either, because there's an element of truth in what he said. For some time now, the US Open has been something less than fun to watch because of the way the USGA sets up the course. Intense? Hell yes, but not really a lot of fun. If all PGA events were set up that way, more and more of us would watch it less and less. But congrats anyway to Rose, he certainly played well, is a dignified competitor and is certainly not undeserving.

I think Johnson is crying a bit. So are Woods and McIlroy they are just much better at doing it and sounding good. The US open has always put a premium on tee to green play by growing the rough and narrowing fairways and landing area's. That's fine and gives to advantage to whoever is most precise over 4 days. Where I feel they have been over board the last 10 or so years is making the greens so fast and hard and then placing pins were it nearly impossible to get inside 10' or the risk factor is so brutal (as in 2 shots) if you miss that you simply cannot afford to go for it. I would like to see the same set ups with slighty softer greens and only 2-3 really crazy pin placements per round. These guys are good if they win at 8 under so be it. One of the really fun things about the Masters coming down the stretch is that guys who win often make birdies or lose trying to.

 

[Cowtown]

What passes as a wedge these days is pretty funny because most of these guys are playing 9i that are around 40 or 41 degrees. So everything more lofted than that is a wedge? I think Phil had 5 in the bag but he is one of the few that has a 60+ (64 I think) IMO anything less than 46 degrees is not a wedge. In today's game most pro's are really doing 90% of there pitching and chipping with their SW or mid 50degree clubs. Then they have LW for specialty shots and the like. They can call the PW and GW/AW wedges but they are used more like additional irons at the end of the set 10, 11. Check out "whats in my bag" where they show the lofts and all for pro's. Some of these guys have like 31 degree 7i LOL. Its all about loft and they have drastically changed the lofts over the years which makes Joe Shmo think he hits the ball further and also need to buy more wedges. Its also why pro's all carry 3-4 wedges.

True enough, jordoo, old bud. That BS all came about when club manufacturers started claiming "Play our clubs because they're longer than theirs," but didn't say that's because they set them up a degree or two stronger through the set.

 

[jordoo]

True enough, jordoo, old bud. That BS all came about when club manufacturers started claiming "Play our clubs because they're longer than theirs," but didn't say that's because they set them up a degree or two stronger through the set.

This is also why no one can hit 2i or 3i anymore because the stronger loft progressions would have them way to low. Thus they get to sell you Hybrid and more lofted woods. LOL. I was talking to this guy yesterday (very good golfer) and we we laughing because I know the lofts on my clubs and he just had a set custom made for him. The 4i is 21.5 degree and my old standard loft MacGregor 4i is 25 degree that's 3.5 difference in a long iron where the differentials are traditionally only 3 degrees different. More than a full club and my set of Mac's is probably a tic stronger than there factory specs to give you an idea of how much loft and iron number has changed. Numbers on the clubs really are pointless these days. When I can get on a machine and tinker I set mine up like this:
2i: 19
3i: 22
4i: 25
5i: 28.5
6i: 32
7i: 36
8i: 40
9i: 44
PW: 49
SW: 54
LW: 60
Then I play with a 9 driver an 18 fairway metal and a putter.

BTW if anyone wants to know how to check your lofts fairly accurately and cheaply it can be done with a vise, a level and then a very small level to pt in the groves of the face. All you need then is a magnetic compass, they even make them specifically for golf clubs at around 20 bucks. It may take you a beer to do a whole set.
Also Dick's will adjust loft and lie on any club for $3.00 on there real expensive electronic equipment. Might want to watch to make sure they are getting them correct. That's only about $30.00 per club. My pops and I are probably going to buy a bending machine next time I see a nice one around $300.00 on ebay.

 

[SWC75]

I think it would be fun if they restricted the pros to three clubs: a wood, an iron and a putter. Then we'll see who can make shots.

 

[br801]

I love that the front page headline on ESPN is "Phil Falls Short Again" instead of, oh I don't know, ANYTHING about Rose actually winning? I really hate the media sometimes. Give Rose some freaking credit. On a brutal day out there, he shot a 70 and won his first major. Why does Lefty have to be the headline?

I'm impressed that they didn't go with "Tiger Denied 15th Major by Just 12 Strokes."

 

[Cowtown]

I think it would be fun if they restricted the pros to three clubs: a wood, an iron and a putter. Then we'll see who can make shots.

A friend of mine plays every now and then with one ball, a 5 iron and a putter, still comes in under 40 for nine.

edit: It was a great lesson for me, btw, watching him do that. I learned that you're still not out of the hole even if you stuff your tee shot - which I've been know to do on occasion . And now that I'm older and have lost some length off the tee, it's quite valuable to know how to play a hole when you can't get home in two.

 

[jordoo]

I think it would be fun if they restricted the pros to three clubs: a wood, an iron and a putter. Then we'll see who can make shots.

If they weren't limited to woods, iron and putter I think it would be even more telling. The 3 clubs they chose would be very interesting. If it were me I'd go 4i, 8i, SW. I can put very effectively with the blade of an iron or wedge.

 

[jordoo]

I'm impressed that they didn't go with "Tiger Denied 15th Major by Just 12 Strokes."

Amazing how long it took, he used to be all the coverage no matter how poorly he played at times. Still he did make every other golfer loads of money by popularizing golf with many new markets and being a super star.

 

[jordoo]

A friend of mine plays every now and then with one ball, a 5 iron and a putter, still comes in under 40 for nine.

Reminds me of this old guy that would play the CC where I grew up. He would only carry 5-7 clubs and he would chip and put one handed with his bag on his shoulder. Best chipper and putter that course had ever seen. He probably didn't hit the ball further than 180 yards ever but I'm sure he scored in the 70's every time out.

 

[Cowtown]

I tried putting for a few holes with a sand iron once, after watching Crenshaw do it in a PGA event once. It's doable, but less than conducive to making a lot of putts

 

[br801]

If they weren't limited to woods, iron and putter I think it would be even more telling. The 3 clubs they chose would be very interesting. If it were me I'd go 4i, 8i, SW. I can put very effectively with the blade of an iron or wedge.

I'd like to see these guys play a tournament with the clubs and balls of about 30 years ago. Put them on a classic layout that hasn't been overly lengthened to protect it, but still places a premium on accuracy. That would be fun and very telling.

 

[jordoo]

I tried putting for a few holes with a sand iron once, after watching Crenshaw do it in a PGA event once. It's doable, but less than conducive to making a lot of putts

I prefer an 8 or 9 that has a straight sole plate where the SW usually its slightly rounded sticking out the furthest in the center which makes it hard to hit straight over and over again. Hitting just above the equator of the ball is fairly easy to repeat. I would think after a while you could get pretty consistent but never as good as with a putter. It is a great trick when you want to put and your ball is on the fringe right up against the first cut though.

 

[br801]

Amazing how long it took, he used to be all the coverage no matter how poorly he played at times. Still he did make every other golfer loads of money by popularizing golf with many new markets and being a super star.

You make good points. He still gets way too much TV coverage when out of contention for my liking, but the networks know where their bread is buttered.

 

[jordoo]

I'd like to see these guys play a tournament with the clubs and balls of about 30 years ago. Put them on a classic layout that hasn't been overly lengthened to protect it, but still places a premium on accuracy. That would be fun and very telling.

That would be awesome. You'd be surprised but I'd bet the balls would be the biggest difference. I have could old persimmon woods and they go when you hit them, but the sweet spot seems tiny compared to these toilet seat covers we have today. The other thing is that with the heavy heads and steel shafts you have to have better timing and smoother acceleration through the ball. Even the crappy balls they make now would probably go further than anything they made in the 60's and 70's, let alone the good ones.

 

[jordoo]

You make good points. He still gets way too much TV coverage when out of contention for my liking, but the networks know where their bread is buttered.

I agree as someone watching to see who is relevant in the particular tourney but you have to consider economics in everything and golf like anything needs money coming in. Tiger was great for golf in that way although I will be very happy if he never breaks Jack's mark for majors.

 

[br801]

That would be awesome. You'd be surprised but I'd bet the balls would be the biggest difference. I have could old persimmon woods and they go when you hit them, but the sweet spot seems tiny compared to these toilet seat covers we have today. The other thing is that with the heavy heads and steel shafts you have to have better timing and smoother acceleration through the ball. The crappy balls they make now would probably go further than anything they made in the 60's and 70's.

Tell me about those sweet spots, and not just with the woods. I still have a set of Hogan woods and irons from the early 1980s. Occasionally I'll hit a few shots with them and always wind up shaking my head and wondering how the hell I ever played them.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Well, it's certainly something other than "real" when it's set up to play differently from the rest of the year. Today (Monday) all the members will go out and play it from the tips just so they can say they played the course that way, and I'll wager not one will say he'd look forward to that every day.

It's the 'rest of the year' that is boring to me. I LOVE the white knuckle aspect of the Open. You can get the 15-under winning scores the rest of the year at cookie-cutter courses.

 

[Cowtown]

That would be awesome. You'd be surprised but I'd bet the balls would be the biggest difference. I have could old persimmon woods and they go when you hit them, but the sweet spot seems tiny compared to these toilet seat covers we have today. The other thing is that with the heavy heads and steel shafts you have to have better timing and smoother acceleration through the ball. The crappy balls they make now would probably go further than anything they made in the 60's and 70's.

True, jordoo, I have a couple of persimmon head woods (a Pebble Beach driver and a Powerbilt 2 wood) which were made back when we played balata (or at least, whenever I found one ), and the whole thing was about feel. But even a new Pro-V1 doesn't have any feel coming off those clubs, so I hung 'em up behind the bar. And accordingly, the ball flight is different today because of the technology. You no longer see the negatively skewed parabola, but rather a much higher launch and a more uniform arc.

 

[Cowtown]

I agree as someone watching to see who is relevant in the particular tourney but you have to consider economics in everything and golf like anything needs money coming in. Tiger was great for golf in that way although I will be very happy if he never breaks Jack's mark for majors.

Yeah, that ship has sailed. And I understand the economics, but how much of that is media contrived? By that I mean, are the Tiger fans out there fans because they like his game, or because the media shows them no one else? I get really tired of watching him hitch his belt, scratch his butt, talk to his caddy, walk down the fairway, while the rest of the field remains fairly unacknowledged.

 

[jordoo]

Tell me about those sweet spots, and not just with the woods. I still have a set of Hogan woods and irons from the early 1980s. Occasionally I'll hit a few shots with them and always wind up shaking my head and wondering how the hell I ever played them.

This is what I'm currently paying. Sweet spot is small but plenty big enough. TTDG S-300 and they go as well as anything made today. (MacGregor CF4000 Tourney M2, circa 1964)

 

[jordoo]

br801,

Which Hogan's do you have?

I have the Apex ll (Black Cameo) they are 78-82ish and very nice clubs.
I also have the Hogan PC which were the next series I believe maybe 84.

 

[jordoo]

True, jordoo, I have a couple of persimmon head woods (a Pebble Beach driver and a Powerbilt 2 wood) which were made back when we played balata (or at least, whenever I found one ), and the whole thing was about feel. But even a new Pro-V1 doesn't have any feel coming off those clubs, so I hung 'em up behind the bar. And accordingly, the ball flight is different today because of the technology. You no longer see the negatively skewed parabola, but rather a much higher launch and a more uniform arc.

I have a Powerbilt Citation Driver its super fly and a Titleist Acushnet 5 wood. Funny about the balata balls, if you really compressed them they would like corkscrew for a bit before the straightend out and they would get out of round after maybe 15-20 really good shots. The ball for sure is the biggest difference and guys like Nicklaus were hitting it 300 back in the day no wonder he needed a new hip.

 

[br801]

br801,

Which Hogan's do you have?

I have the Apex ll (Black Cameo) they are 78-82ish and very nice clubs.
I also have the Hogan PC which were the next series I believe maybe 84.

The set I have is the Apex II. Loved those clubs (and played a lot more in those days).

 

[br801]

View attachment 3883

This is what I'm currently paying. Sweet spot is small but plenty big enough. TTDG S-300 and they go as well as anything made today. (MacGregor CF4000 Tourney M2, circa 1964)

Very cool.

 

[Cowtown]

br801,

Which Hogan's do you have?

I have the Apex ll (Black Cameo) they are 78-82ish and very nice clubs.
I also have the Hogan PC which were the next series I believe maybe 84.

And a very full basement and a garage that you can't get your car in, LMAO!