What Gottlieb, Us and whats going on at UCLA in the same sentence

[BRNCUSEFRVCUSE]

You keep repeating the same thing over and over and over while ignoring the fact that people with actual knowledge are saying he had issues you probably don't know about. Loving your daughter doesn't automatically make you a fine human being.

I think ppl saw what they wanted to see in him. PPL in this community got a perception of him and thats what they went with. My father who has since passed away when me and him would watch games together i use to wear my devendorf jersey to the dome and my father would say how could you wear that the kid is a punk, hes a jerk.

I think thier is more to Eric Devendorf than what you see on the outside and what is said about him.

So i always choose to defend him, and be a supporter of his until the time came when i could not while he was hear

and i still hope he does well in the future

i dont know why i just always felt this way about him

 

[cusetown1]

In 1985, Sutton took the helm of one of the nation's most prestigious college basketball programs at the University of Kentucky. He coached the Wildcats for four years, leading them to the Elite Eight of the 1986 NCAA Tournament. Two seasons later, Sutton and the 25-5 Wildcats captured their 37th SEC title (which was later vacated by the SEC) and were ranked as the 6th college basketball team in the nation by the Associated Press and UPI[1][2] before losing to Villanova in the 1988 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament.
However Sutton's tenure at Kentucky promptly ended at the close of the 1988–89 season after a scandal and a losing record tarnished the school's basketball program. Kentucky entered the 1988–89 season lacking significant talent in their lineup. The previous season's offensive and defensive stars Ed Davender, Robert Lock and Winston Bennett had all graduated from school; All-SEC sophomore Rex Chapman left school early to enter the 1988 NBA Draft. Additionally, sophomore standout Eric Manuel was suspected of cheating on his college entrance exam and voluntarily agreed to sit out until the investigation was finished. Potential franchise recruit Shawn Kemp transferred out of Kentucky after signing with the school early that year.[3] As it turned out, Manuel didn't play a single game as the investigation dragged through the entire season, essentially placing the Wildcats in the hands of the inexperienced sophomore LeRon Ellis and freshman Chris Mills. The two underclassmen struggled to fill the talent vacuum on the court and the Wildcats finished with a losing record of 13-19, the team's first losing full-season record since 1927.[2] To add insult to injury, the NCAA announced at the end of the season that its investigation into the basketball program had found the school guilty of violating numerous NCAA policies.[4]
The scandal broke when Emery Worldwide employees discovered $1,000 in cash in an envelope Kentucky assistant coach Dwane Casey sent to Mills' father.[5] Kentucky was already on probation stemming from an extensive scheme of payments to recruits, and the NCAA seriously considered hitting the Wildcats with the "death penalty", which would have shut down the entire basketball program (as opposed to simply being banned from postseason play) for up to two years. However, school president David Roselle forced Sutton and athletic director Cliff Hagan to resign. The Wildcats were slapped with three years' probation, a two-year ban from postseason play and a ban from live television in 1989–90. Additionally, Manuel was banned from ever playing again for any NCAA member school.[6]

Emery Worldwide -Wes Worldwide. hmmmmmm. The really sad part is I'm sure that is just one chapter in a book full of unethical behavior.

 

[br801]

The dude had an edge to him grew up in a tough environment and dealt with some stuff. Go look at that syracuse.com story about him and his daughter it will change your opinion of him.

I feel i need to defend him, because i loved seeing him play. He had swagger, he was clutch, he was a competitor.

He wasnt a punk. He was a guy who had an edge to him.

You make some good points here and I agree with a lot of it.

And you have every right to defend him and every right to express your opinions, even if a lot of people on this board disagree with you. Just keep your helmet on.

 

[cusetown1]

has anybody ever read this? http://www.hoopszone.net/Kentucky/Dark Side.htm
THE DARK SIDE OF KENTUCKY BASKETBALL
PROLOGUE
This is the first of a series of articles I am writing about the longtime ugly aspect of Kentucky basketball, so often ignored by the media, and usually avoided by the NCAA. In historical realty though, the University of Kentucky basketball program has continuously been one of the most criminal of all NCAA Division 1 schools. In each decade since the 1940’s, UK has been involved in at least one scandal of major proportions, and until the 1970’s were a major force against the integration of blacks in basketball.
Recently, in the course of researching for this story about the longtime ugly aspect of Kentucky basketball, I started to reread James Michener’s Sports in America, which was published back in 1976. I remembered that he had addressed the issue of race in sports so looked through the index and found his comments about the 1966 NCAA championship battle between all-white Kentucky and all-black Texas Western, a memorable watershed of racial relations in college basketball.
I expected to find that Michener would excoriate Adolph Rupp, the Wildcats longtime head coach. I was stunned to read, however, that he felt that the victory by Texas Western wasn’t the real story, but rather that the Miner players had been treated quite poorly in school, and few remained in college the next year. “The blacks had been imported from New York and had been treated as poorly paid gladiators, and of the seven black champions, none had graduated. They had no social privileges, were threatened with loss of their scholarships if they dated white or Mexican girls – there were no black girls – and were discriminated against in every particular.” He went on to say that the El Paso story is one of the most wretched in the history of sports.
Not once did Michener mention anything about Rupp’s highly publicized racism, a bias that not only pervaded the Kentucky program, but which had influence thoughout the Southeastern Conference and beyond. Rather, he said “In reflecting upon the El Paso incident, I have often thought how much luckier the white players were under Coach Adolph Rupp. He looked after his players; they had a shot at a real education; and they were secure within the traditions of the university, their community, and their state. They may have lost the playoff, but they were winners in every other respect, and their black opponents from El Paso were losers.” 1
While this was an astute observation of the white-black disparity caused by racism, isn’t it very strange that Michener completely missed the other half of this most wretched story? That very Rupp, who looked after his white players, gave them a shot at a real education, and made them feel secure, was the very same man who flaunted his utter disregard for the rules of fair play in matters of recruiting, regularly paid his players, and refused to recruit blacks, kept them from getting a shot at education, and proudly made sure that all blacks (and whites, for that matter) knew about the segregationist traditions of his university.
In subsequent issues of KJ’s BB Newsletter, I’ll tell the other side of the story -- the one that addresses those Wildcat dark traditions. The first chapter will address the initiation of Kentucky basketball’s criminal traditions, followed by the second chapter which looks in depth at the virulence and influence of the earlier years of it’s racist tradition. Subsequent chapters reflect that those sinister practices have continued through the many changes in coaches and administrators at the University.
___________________
1 Sports In America, A Fawcett Crest Book, by James A, Michener, p. 189.
CHAPTER 1
THE DEATH SENTENCE
The warning signs of gambling were there in the mid-40’s, particularly in the New York area. The Illustrated History of Basketball mentioned that “Out in Kansas, Phog Allen warned of additional skullduggery at the Garden, and he even sent Ned Irish (the Madison Square Garden promoter) the name of a player he felt was doing business with gamblers. But he was ignored.” 1
Allegations of point-shaving and game-dumping came to light when a Manhatten player, Junious Kellogg, reported having been contacted by gamblers and the New York District Attorney's office was called in to investigate. While the investigation started with those associated with and around Madison Square Garden, the investigation eventually spread to Kentucky, where it was proven that former players, All-Americans Alex Groza and Ralph Beard, had been given money to shave points in the 1948-49 season. Originally the players agreed, for $100 each, to beat their upcoming opponent by more than the point spread. They beat the spread and the dye was cast.
"Those guys were smooth talkers. They should have been salesmen. They took us out for a stroll, treated us to a meal, and before we knew anything, we were right in the middle of it. They said we didn't have to dump the game. They said nobody would get hurt except other gamblers. They said everybody was doing it. And they asked what was wrong with winning a game by as many points as we could. We just didn't think." 2
After successfully doing it again, they then agreed to play under the point spread. They won that game, under the spread, and entered the NIT Tournament 29-1. The heavily-favored Wildcats then took a dive, losing to Loyola of Chicago, the lowest seeded team. Rupp was devastated after the loss. “I don’t know….Lordy. but I think there’s something wrong with this team.” The players were paid $1500 for their work. The team then went on to the NCAA Tournament where they beat the Oklahoma Aggies for Kentucky’s second national title.
The scandal publicly broke early in 1951, when the New York District Attorney’s office indicted CCNY and several other New York colleges for fixing games. Kentucky's involvement in the point-shaving mess was still to be uncovered when the #1 ranked Wildcats arrived in Minneapolis in search of their third NCAA championship in four years. There they met No.4 Kansas State, champion of the Big Seven. Led by 7-foot junior All-America Bill Spivey and sophomore Cliff Hagan, the Kentucky Cats won, 68-58, and coach Rupp had his third title.
In response to media questions during the tourney, UK coach Adolph Rupp boasted “The gamblers couldn't touch my boys with a 10-foot pole.” The victory celebration didn't last long, however. Shortly after winning the title, the scandal overtook the Cats. Obviously some gambler had found an eleven-foot pole, as five Kentucky players, over three season, were implicated. An Assistant DA said that practically every game Kentucky played in the 1951 season involved gambling. Groza and Beard, stars of the 1948 U.S. Olympic basketball team and now professionals, were thrown out of the NBA. Spivey fought the charges, but never played another game in college, was banned from the NBA, and his dreams of a rich pro career ended.
When handing down the sentences of the Kentucky players, Judge Saul Streit unleashed a blast against the school and Rupp, calling Kentucky “the acme of commercialization and overemphasis.” He further said “I found covert subsidization of players, ruthless exploitation of athletes, cribbing at examinations, ‘illegal’ recruiting, a reckless disregard of the physical welfare, matriculation of unqualified students, demoralization of the athletes by the coach, alumni, and townspeople and the flagrant abuse of the athletic scholarship.” He said that Rupp "failed in his duty to observe the amateur rules, to build character, and to protect the morals and health of his charges." And he especially reprimanded Rupp for his association with Ed Curd, acknowledged as the biggest bookmaker in Lexington.
Never in the history of the sport had there been such wholesale revelations of corruption. But, although the players were punished, the NCAA didn’t do a thing to Kentucky or Rupp. However, when the charges of recruiting violations and payments to players were proven the next year, and the SEC voted to ban UK from any conference games, three months later the NCAA was left with no choice but to put the Wildcats on probation and canceled their entire 1952-53 season.
"Kentucky's basketball history is as much about NCAA investigations and allegations of payoffs and being shut down for an entire season for point shaving as it is about winning championships."3
__________________
1 Illustrated History of Basketball, by Larry Fox, Grosset & Dunlap, 1974, p. 97.
2 Quote from Dale Barnstable, in Scandals of '51, by Charley Rosen, reprinted by Seven Stories Press, 1999, pg. 182.
3 A March to Madness, by John Feinstein, Little Brown and Company, 1998, pg. 420.
CHAPTER 2
KENTUCKY RACISM - PART 1

Coach Adolph Rupp was a bigot who barred the door to blacks at Kentucky and throughout the SEC for many years. A Bull Conner look-alike and a George Wallace act-alike, he flaunted his racism and negatively influenced the racial nature of college basketball from the 1930’s and into the 60’s.
Here are four quotes (among hundreds) which illustrate his virulent racism.
"He said, ‘You've got to beat those coons,’ He turned to (center)Thad Jaracz. 'You go after that big coon.' . . . He talked that way all the time. . . A chill went through me. I was standing in the back of the room, and I looked around at the players. They all kind of ducked their heads. They were embarrassed. This was clearly the type of thing that went over the line." Frank Deford,Sports Illustrated, reporting on Coach Adolph Rupp’s halftime exhortations in the UK Wildcat’s locker room.
"Harry, that son of a bitch is ordering me to get some niggers in here. What am I going to do ? He's the boss." Harry Lancaster, long-time assistant to Rupp, in his book Adolph Rupp As I Knew Him (Lexington Productions, 1979), quoting Rupp on Dr. John Oswald, UK President.
“Once, I was on a flight with Rupp and sat with him in the first-class section. He had about six Kentucky bourbons in less than an hour and was about halfway to the wind. I told him that I was an attorney who represented some basketball players. Now, I had never met the man, and the first significant thing he said to me was, ‘The trouble with the ABA is that there are too many nigger boys in it now.’ I sat there just stunned. That just killed my image of Adolph Rupp the great coach. Maybe it was because he had too much to drink, but even so...” - Loose Balls by Terry Pluto, Simon & Schuster, 1990, pg. 241.

"Rupp liked to say he had tried to recruit Wilt Chamberlain in the mid-1950s, when the 7-foot Philadelphia phenom was the talk of basketball. 'But could I take him to Atlanta, New Orleans, or Starkville ?' Rupp asked rhetorically.” And the Walls Came Tumbling Down (1999, Simon & Schuster) by journalist Frank Fitzpatrick, a long-time staffer at the Philadelphia Inquirer.
By the mid-1960’s, racial barriers had been torn down for the most part, in other areas of the country, and in most other sports. "In the spring of 1966, Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were dominating the National Basketball Association; Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Frank Robinson were among Major League Baseball's brightest stars; Gale Sayers was preparing to replace Jim Brown as the National Football League's leading rusher; and Muhammad Ali was the world heavyweight boxing champion. In college basketball, every NCAA champion since 1961 had been built around black stars. Loyola of Chicago, the 1963 champion, had four black starters." 1
Not so in Kentucky. Rupp took his all-white team to the 1966 NCAA championship game where they faced the all-black Texas Western team coached by Don Haskins. “Rupp’s Runts”, featuring Pat Riley (now coach of the Miami Heat), Louie Dampier and Larry Conley, were ranked number 1. Adolph had publicly declared that he would never let a black wear the Kentucky blue and he was primed to set things right. As fate would have it though, no-name Texas Western (now the University of Texas, El Paso), with an upstart squad of inner-city blacks led by 5’9 sparkplug Bobby Joe Hill and 245 lb.center David “Big Daddy” Lattin, whipped the big-name monarch of southern basketball and his all-pale squad. The final score of 72-65 hardly reflected the Miner’s superiority. "So visible was The Baron, and so racist were his views, that he was the predominant reason why Texas Western's victory is remembered a watershed moment in sports history." 2
“Kentucky’s appearance in the final turned out to be Rupp’s last shot at the championship; he retired six years later without ever again taking a Wildcat team past the second round. It was also the last time a segregated southern school mounted a serious challenge for the NCAA title. Within the next few years, “white” colleges throughout the south began to actively recruit black players” 3
Preceding the 1970 season, Rupp finally gave in to pressure by UK President Oswald and alumni to bring the program back to a competitive level, and signed Tom Payne, a 7’ center from Louisville. Payne was the one and only black he ever recruited in his 42 years as coach of the Wildcats. Payne stayed one year.
"And even with his four national championships Rupp will always be viewed in the mirror of the Texas Western game, where he was on the wrong side of history. Rupp never recovered from that. And for many black Americans, neither did Kentucky." 4
Isn’t it poetic that Rupp is recalled as a villain in a sport now dominated by a race he excluded? It’s also ironic that Rupp’s ultimate legacy was that the 1966 game did more than anything else to integrate the sport. "You guys got a lot of black kids scholarships around this country," Miners coach Don Haskins said in an emotional address at the [25th Anniversary] reunion. "You can be proud of that. I guess you helped change the world a little bit." 5
His epitaph?
“For 42 years it was his way of dealing with defeat. Acerbic, arrogant, defiant, Adolph Rupp won 875 games and lost none. It was his players who lost those 190.” 6

1 "Dribbling on Rupp's grave. Author shoots an Airball with Bogus Analysis of Famous UK Game," by Billy Reed, Lexington Herald Leader, February 28, 1999.
2 Bergen Record, by Dave D'Alessandro, March 3,1996.
3 The Encyclopedia of the NCAA Basketball Tournament, page 266, by Jim Savage.
4 “To Tubby: May the Best Man Win,” by Tony Kornheiser, Washington Post, My 15, 1997.
5 By Jack Wilkinson, Atlanta Journal and Constitution, April 1, 1991.
6 Calling Rupp a Racist Just Doesn’t Ring True, by David Kindred, Lexington Herald Leader, December 22, 1991.
CHAPTER 3
THE TRADITION CONTINUES UNDER HALL & SUTTON
Except for a hand slap in 1976, the NCAA had looked the other way and studiously avoided any investigations into Kentucky basketball during Joe B. Hall’s tenure as head coach, 1973-85. However, shortly after Eddie Sutton took over the program, the Lexington Herald-Leader reported a blockbuster expose’ series about UK paying former players and recruits.
“For years, ordinary fans have rewarded University of Kentucky basketball players with a loyalty that is nationally known. What is less known is that a small group of boosters has been giving the players something extra: a steady stream of cash. The cash has come in various amounts - as little as $20 and as much as $4,000 or more - and it has come often. UK players have received what they call ‘hundred-dollar handshakes’ in the Rupp Arena locker room after games.” 1

“Mary Wilson shifted uneasily on a couch when asked about improper recruiting offers made to her son Ben, who before his death last year was widely considered the nation's top high school basketball prospect. It was the same couch in her South Side bungalow where Mrs. Wilson had listened intently as Ben wavered between picking a school that offered the most money or a school that offered the most in education and basketball."We're talking about a lot of money," Mrs. Wilson said recently.” 2
In spite of all the damaging evidence presented by the Herald-Leader, with public coverage of admissions by over 31 former UK players and some recruits, the NCAA continued to sidestep doing anything to the sacred Wildcats. So, Kentucky basketball being what it was, and given apparent immunity by the NCAA, the tradition of breaking the rules continued under the Sutton regime.
Their misdeeds started publicly emerging in a couple of years, though. It started with Eric Manual, a Wildcat recruit who apparently had copied “answer for answer” from another student while taking the ACT. He was a top recruit in the 1987-88 class and had failed his ACT test a number of times. On his final attempt, taking the test at Lexington High School (even though he was from Georgia), his score dramatically jumped from 14 to 23, making him eligible. Although never proven, evidence suggested that Manual had been helped by the UK coaching staff.
"We know there were lots of people with an interest in him being eligible," said Mark Hammons, the Oklahoma City attorney who argued Manuel's court case pro bono. "UK and its boosters and affiliates -- they had much more to gain by altering his test score than Eric did." 3
Manuel was barred from ever playing in Division 1, but again the NCAA let Kentucky off the hook.
The next incident was harder for the NCAA to overlook, however, when it was found that a package from the University of Kentucky basketball offices to Claude Mills, Chris Mills’ father, contained approximately $1,000 in cash. Kentucky had been heavily recruiting the highly acclaimed Mills, and the NCAA determined that the package was sent by UK Assistant Coach and former player Dwayne Casey. The book Raw Recruits by Alexander Wolff and Armen Keteyian (Pocket Books, 1991) has a fascinating and detailed account of what went on in this whole situation.
“Now, the NCAA was faced with Kentucky being caught once again red-handed and, naturally, denying, denying, denying. What would it [the NCAA] do ? Rex Chapman, the Boy King decided not to wait for an answer. On May 13th, he announced he was passing up his last two years of eligibility to turn pro. Chapman insisted the Mills investigation had nothing to do with his decision. If you believe in that then you believe in Santa Claus." 4
Many questioned whether the NCAA would do anything to the Wildcats. Jerry Tarkanian, then coach of UNLV astutely cracked that “they’re going to find them guilty and then give Cleveland State three more years of probation.” Despite that and despite an ineffectual investigation, the NCAA stripped UK of several scholarships, banned them from television and postseason play. Head coach Eddie Sutton and Casey were forced to resign, and Casey was banned from coaching in the NCAA for five years. Strangely enough, they didn’t do a thing to Mills, who transferred to Arizona.
In the aftermath, LeRon Ellis, Sean Sutton, Rex Chapman and Shawn Kemp all left the program over the next two years, leaving the school’s basketball program in shambles.
Given his record before and after his tenure at Kentucky, Sutton has run clean programs, notably at Arkansas and currently at Oklahoma State, so you have to give him some benefit of the doubt that he really didn’t know what was going on. Clearly, though, his assistants did and were the definite perpetrators of the payoffs, and Sutton was responsible for the program. More likely, Sutton chose to put on blindfolds at Kentucky, where the pressures to win at all costs were ingrained. It’s a shame that the criminal traditions at Kentucky could override the principles of a fine man like Sutton.

1 Lexington Herald-Leader, October 27, 1985.

2 Lexington Herald-Leader, October 28, 1985.

3 "Odd Man Out," Sports Illustrated, February 11, 1991, Vol. 74, No. 5 pg. 175.

4 A Season Inside, by John Feinstein, Villard Books, 1988, pg. 460.

 

[dasher]

I think ppl saw what they wanted to see in him. PPL in this community got a perception of him and thats what they went with. My father who has since passed away when me and him would watch games together i use to wear my devendorf jersey to the dome and my father would say how could you wear that the kid is a punk, hes a jerk.

I think thier is more to Eric Devendorf than what you see on the outside and what is said about him.

So i always choose to defend him, and be a supporter of his until the time came when i could not while he was hear

and i still hope he does well in the future

i dont know why i just always felt this way about him

any adult that knew Eric, knew him to be a punk. Check to see how many adults that knew him well, come to his defense here.

 

[Alsacs]

If Doug Gottlieb says anything follow this mantra.

 

[moqui]

So to recap:

We've had "problems" of varying degree with the following athlete/students since 2002 (i.e. the last decade)

In order of enrollment:

1. DeShaun Williams (Severe)
2. Koneckny (Who knows?)
3. Edelin (Extreme)
4. McCroskey (Moderate to Severe)
5. Tiki Mayben (Never arrived but off-the-charts bad apple)
6. Josh Wright (Moderate; Legal problems upon leaving school)
7. DayShaun Wright (Moderate)
8. Devo (Moderate to Severe)
9. Paul Harris (Severe baggage before enrolling, but nothing crazy while at SU)
10. Jackson (Mild; Seemingly good kid but can't overlook the freshman "episode")
11. Mike Jones (Who?)
12. Scoop (Mild; freshman "episode" and credit card saga)
13. Dion (Moderate; prima donna as frosh, seeming sense of entitlement)
14. Fab (Moderate; Legal issues, Laziness as frosh; Academic headache)

Harris managed to stay out of legal trouble at SU, but he was a diva while he was here - unhappy with his role, no-showing practices, almost-but-not-quite quitting the team
Mike Jones was another one who no-showed practices. Those sorts of things don't show up in the legal docket, and nobody on the Kentucky or UConn boards is going to include them when their lowest-common-denominator posters follow our lead and list our litany of sins, but they are corrosive to the internal workings of a team. Indeed, they are worse for building a team than the public, outside troubles are (except when the latter lead to suspensions)

 

[OttoMets]

Harris managed to stay out of legal trouble at SU, but he was a diva while he was here - unhappy with his role, no-showing practices, almost-but-not-quite quitting the team
Mike Jones was another one who no-showed practices. Those sorts of things don't show up in the legal docket, and nobody on the Kentucky or UConn boards is going to include them when their lowest-common-denominator posters follow our lead and list our litany of sins, but they are corrosive to the internal workings of a team. Indeed, they are worse for building a team than the public, outside troubles are (except when the latter lead to suspensions)

As, of course, is publically criticizing the coach's preferred style of play, as Flynn did repeatedly (in addition to his involvement in the "episode" and the car-kicking incident that led to Devendorf clocking that girl).

Those guys had tuned out the coaching staff around the time of their ugly loss to Providence in 2009; that was a season on the brink. The four nights in New York covered up some of the memory of that, but it wasn't a high point for the program.

 

[moqui]

As of course, is publically criticizing the coach's preferred style of play, as Flynn did repeatedly (in addition to his involvement in the "episode" and the car-kicking incident that led to Devendorf clocking that girl).

Those guys had tuned out the coaching staff around the time of their ugly loss to Providence in 2009; that was a season on the brink. The four nights in New York covered up some of the memory of that, but it wasn't a high point for the program.

yep, as you and Mason both allude - that season was beginning to look like it could become the 5th consecutive year without an NCAA win. Instead, it began the turnaround that we are now experiencing.

Two things happened that year: JB put everything on the line for Eric to get him back for the second semester, which took a lot of guts. Then he pushed three former McDonald's All Americans out the door (Flynn was going anyway), which took even more.

Then he put the best team in the nation together out of a bunch of 2 and 3 star recruits and the afterthoughts of the 2007 recruiting class.

The spring of 2009 was pivotal in the evolution of our beloved Orangemen.

 

[BRNCUSEFRVCUSE]

As of course, is publically criticizing the coach's preferred style of play, as Flynn did repeatedly (in addition to his involvement in the "episode" and the car-kicking incident that led to Devendorf clocking that girl).

Those guys had tuned out the coaching staff around the time of their ugly loss to Providence in 2009; that was a season on the brink. The four nights in New York covered up some of the memory of that, but it wasn't a high point for the program.

Com mon, Johnny Flynn now

The dude was great player hear at cuse, one of the all time greats and how could you not like him with his smile and personality

Johnny was in no way a trouble maker of any kind. And fyi, that alledged incident with Johnny, Rick, and Scoop nobody knows the real story bout what actually happened if anything happened.

You want to say Eric was a bad guy trouble maker. I dont like it and think its unfair but his perception is what it is.

But Johnny Flynn and trouble does not match

 

[OttoMets]

yep, as you and Mason both allude - that season was beginning to look like it could become the 5th consecutive year without an NCAA win. Instead, it began the turnaround that we are now experiencing.

Two things happened that year: JB put everything on the line for Eric to get him back for the second semester, which took a lot of guts. Then he pushed three former McDonald's All Americans out the door (Flynn was going anyway), which took even more.

Then he put the best team in the nation together out of a bunch of 2 and 3 star recruits and the afterthoughts of the 2007 recruiting class.

The spring of 2009 was pivotal in the evolution of our beloved Orangemen.

A remarkable turning point.

I probably ought to give Boeheim more credit for that. He'd had almost half a decade of disappointing seasons with national championship guys, disappointing seasons with little talent, and disappointing seasons with McDonald's kids who didn't much care for authority or the program in general. Boeheim consciously got rid of the cancers and now banged out the best three-year streak in two decades with a bunch of guys who get along and have bought into the system.

Credit to Jimmy, and big credit to Rautins and Scoop for getting the guys to get it together.

 

[Marsh01]

God I love that movie

 

[OttoMets]

Com mon, Johnny Flynn now

The dude was great player hear at cuse, one of the all time greats and how could you not like him with his smile and personality

Johnny was in no way a trouble maker of any kind. And fyi, that alledged incident with Johnny, Rick, and Scoop nobody knows the real story bout what actually happened if anything happened.

You want to say Eric was a bad guy trouble maker. I dont like it and think its unfair but his perception is what it is.

But Johnny Flynn and trouble does not match

A smile and a chummy rapport with the press masked a good deal of anti-team and socially disruptive behavior.

 

[BRNCUSEFRVCUSE]

A smile and a chummy rapport with the press masked a good deal of anti-team and socially disruptive behavior.

Johnny Flynn, our Johnny Flynn


if you think i have Eric Devendorfs back, Johnny Flynn was my hero and dont bang on me for saying hero (when he was hear i was in middle school so give me a break)

Johnny Flynn the words anti-team, and socially disruptive is not him at all.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Johnny Flynn, our Johnny Flynn


if you think i have Eric Devendorfs back, Johnny Flynn was my hero and dont bang on me for saying hero (when he was hear i was in middle school so give me a break)

Johnny Flynn the words anti-team, and socially disruptive is not him at all.

One would think you could properly spell the name of your hero. Its Johnniiee Flynn.

 

[LennX6]

Again with the Gottleib hating? Really? Based on this? You need to get thicker skin dude.

Devo wasnt a bad character guy? Really? I loved him because he played for us but he was a first teamer bad character guy at times. Josh Wright?

Lest we forget Louie "The Chair" McCroskey. Let's remember this isn't Robby Benson in "One on One"

 

[LennX6]

I wish Paul had a better career here. But he had character issues beyond driving to buffalo whenever something went wrong.

We are fortunate that Syracuse is not a glamorous location.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Considering I have character issues, I guess I am sensitive to others labelled as such.
Seriously, unless it hits me in the face , I could care about character issues. I liked the Paul Harris that appeared on my TV screen and played hard, the only one I knew, and ever was going to know. That was good enough for me. His badly timed gaffes almost had a lovable edge to them ( well I say that 3 yrs removed from them) as they were often so bad, so critical, that you almost wanted to give him a hug.

 

[Marsh01]

Lest we forget Louie "The Chair" McCroskey. Let's remember this isn't Robby Benson in "One on One"

Up yours with a red hot poker...

 

[chlywtr]

One would think you could properly spell the name of your hero. Its Johnniiee Flynn.

i'm more concerned with his butchering of the proper usage of here -hear and their-there-they're

 

[PoppyHart]

Let's go about it this way:

What exactly do you NOT like about SU being compared to UCLA? That is, what are the specific issues that you think are NOT comparable?

I admit I haven't read the SI article yet, but I've read a couple of summaries about it. From my understanding, the chief complaints were about (in no particular order)
1. Showing up in the fall out of shape (Joshua Smith)
2. Laziness and/or lack of full commitment (mutiple, including Jrue Holiday, Drew Gordon, J'mison Morgan, and Malcolm Lee)
3. Star players feeling a sense of entitlement (multiple, including Smith, others Reeves Nelson)
4. Confronting, challenging, or disrespecting the coach and staff (Smith, Nelson)
5. Off-campus fighting (Nelson)
6. Drug use (see players listed in #2)

Now, do we have players that fit that mold, either currently or in the recent past?

Johnny Flynn, our Johnny Flynn


if you think i have Eric Devendorfs back, Johnny Flynn was my hero and dont bang on me for saying hero (when he was hear i was in middle school so give me a break)

Johnny Flynn the words anti-team, and socially disruptive is not him at all.

 

[OttoMets]

Considering I have character issues, I guess I am sensitive to others labelled as such.
Seriously, unless it hits me in the face , I could care about character issues. I liked the Paul Harris that appeared on my TV screen and played hard, the only one I knew, and ever was going to know. That was good enough for me. His badly timed gaffes almost had a lovable edge to them ( well I say that 3 yrs removed from them) as they were often so bad, so critical, that you almost wanted to give him a hug.

I liked Paul a lot; he was a genuinely good guy (which, as we know, isn't the case with every player). I'll defend him and Billy Edelin in most cases.

That said, while Paul wasn't Rabble-Rouser #1 on the 2007-2009 teams, he certainly wasn't a positive influence within the program.

Credit to him for playing hard in an increasingly imperfect situation, though.

 

[BRNCUSEFRVCUSE]

Let's go about it this way:

What exactly do you NOT like about SU being compared to UCLA? That is, what are the specific issues that you think are NOT comparable?

I admit I haven't read the SI article yet, but I've read a couple of summaries about it. From my understanding, the chief complaints were about (in no particular order)
1. Showing up in the fall out of shape (Joshua Smith)
2. Laziness and/or lack of full commitment (mutiple, including Jrue Holiday, Drew Gordon, J'mison Morgan, and Malcolm Lee)
3. Star players feeling a sense of entitlement (multiple, including Smith, others Reeves Nelson)
4. Confronting, challenging, or disrespecting the coach and staff (Smith, Nelson)
5. Off-campus fighting (Nelson)
6. Drug use (see players listed in #2)

Now, do we have players that fit that mold, either currently or in the recent past?

College Athletes have ups and downs, lows and highs Just like you and I. That doesnt mean at the lows and downs thier bad guys or and the program is in a chaos

And the thing that Disturbs me the most is not the perception of Eric and calling him a punk or a thug (while i disagree) The perception of him in this community and within the syracuse fan base is what it is and thats unfortunate. And i dont care how much flack i get i will always support him and be a fan of his

However when ppl say. Johnny Flynn personality and smile that we all saw was a cover for words like ANTI-TEAM, and Socially Disruptive that is what i have a problem with.

 

[mountaincuse]

outside of the Fab issues, we've been relatively drama-free the last 3 seasons, which has been nice. I don't think it's any coincidence that we're 87-14 over that stretch. Generally speaking the collective focus of the last 3 teams has been much better without the off-court drama.

Well... the beginning of this season was far from drama-free though it was non player induced and it seemed to bring the players closer to each other as a team

 

[bnoro]

Boy, BRNCUSEFRVCUSE, if you actually know the things some people here know about Flynn/Harris/Sean Williams/Eric Devendorf it would blow your mind...

I loved all of them on the court but they were not the fantastic people you claim them to be.

 

[Marsh01]

College Athletes have ups and downs, lows and highs Just like you and I. That doesnt mean at the lows and downs thier bad guys or and the program is in a chaos

And the thing that Disturbs me the most is not the perception of Eric and calling him a punk or a thug (while i disagree) The perception of him in this community and within the syracuse fan base is what it is and thats unfortunate. And i dont care how much flack i get i will always support him and be a fan of his

However when ppl say. Johnny Flynn personality and smile that we all saw was a cover for words like ANTI-TEAM, and Socially Disruptive that is what i have a problem with.

Its one thing to be a fan but Flynn left 4 years ago. If you say you are 18 that would have made you 14 and younger when Flynn was here. Just because people smile and had a great personality doesnt mean they were mother theresa. You really need to take off the orange colored goggles and take the posters off of your wall and enter big boy land.

Eric was a punk. I was a fan because he played for Syracuse but he was a punk. I dont care about him with his daughter. He should be a good dad otherwise he is a POS. You dont get pats on the back for being a good parent. Yuo are supposed to love your kids and provide for them. If not you are a douchebag. Some day when you have kids of your own you will realize this. I'm supposed to feel sorry for him because he got some girl pregnant while he was in college? No chance. Put on a freaking rubber.

And how do you know for sure he wasnt a punk like you say he wasnt? Because he was your favorite player? You were barely in high school when Devo was here. I loved his swagger but that doesnt take away from him being a complete punk.