WWE Thread

[jncuse]

I know eventually Sting had a cup of coffee in WWE but this is still true today

I would say there are some yes / no in this. WWE built a number of stars from WCW -- in a "very slight" way around 2000, it was the "AEW" of the WWE/WCW war in that it was doing a better job of building good talent.

There was the WCW vs WWE angle in 2001 that went nowhere, but to be fair to Vince, creating a fair fight storyline was tough to do. Remember that most of the stars of WCW chose to sit out for about a year after the acquisition. Not that it was handled well.

But in 1999/2000 the WWE brought in some guys who were middling in WCW and made them ** big stars in the WWE (Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit) and also built up Booker T / Mysterio pretty well after the acquistion date. There was a number of casualties as well, especially those that came right in April 2001 when they were acquired. (** or made it easier for them to become stars then it does to people today)

 

[jncuse]

I really wish they’d get away from having 2 champions. It makes no sense.

WWE champion
Intercontinental champ
Tag champs

For both the men and the women.

About the IC Title.. it hasn't meant anything for a long time, but this past SummerSlam really pointed out how things changed from when I was younger.

Early SummerSlams had so many iconic/great moments around the IC Title - Warrior beating Honky Tonk Man, Hart vs Hennig, Hart vs Davey Boy Smith.

In 2021, the IC Champion came out to an entrance music as filler on a 5 hour show.


I don't think there has been an issue with the two "World" champions in the past year. They have generally created good or at least adequate storylines and matches at the top level in the past 12 months with Lashley / Reigns / Drew even with the well running close to being dry in terms of building opponents. That being said it may have finally run dry. Goldberg was brutal.

But if I was to grade "content" in the past 12 months, at least at the PPV level the World Championships and the Woman's Matches probably get passing grades. Of course everything that is presented on regular TV pretty much gets a failing grade due to the promo work and storylines.

 

[OrangeDW]

About the IC Title.. it hasn't meant anything for a long time, but this past SummerSlam really pointed out how things changed from when I was younger.

Early SummerSlams had so many iconic/great moments around the IC Title - Warrior beating Honky Tonk Man, Hart vs Hennig, Hart vs Davey Boy Smith.

In 2021, the IC Champion came out to an entrance music as filler on a 5 hour show.


I don't think there has been an issue with the two "World" champions in the past year. They have generally created good or at least adequate storylines and matches at the top level in the past 12 months with Lashley / Reigns / Drew even with the well running close to being dry in terms of building opponents. That being said it may have finally run dry. Goldberg was brutal.

But if I was to grade "content" in the past 12 months, at least at the PPV level the World Championships and the Woman's Matches probably get passing grades. Of course everything that is presented on regular TV pretty much gets a failing grade due to the promo work and storylines.

It just makes no sense to me to have two champions. Somebody needs to be “the best”. Odd how the two champions almost never want to wrestle each other. Nobody wants to be “the best”? I know kayfabe is long dead and all, but come on.

The IC belt should be reestablished. It was a good way to establish guys as possible future world champions.

 

[jncuse]

It just makes no sense to me to have two champions.

The IC belt should be reestablished. It was a good way to establish guys as possible future world champions.

Well the WWE may change their mind on that -- how many times have they have they unified the two titles since the WCW acquisition. At least twice that I can remember. And then they change their mind shortly thereafter.

I do agree that they have to find a way to emphasize the IC Title. The thing is however if you watch matches on PPV there are a number of matches that have good wrestling and could meet the threshold of "IC quality matches". They have the workers to make it work -- but not the writing.


I am actually fine with the concept of two brands of rosters and each having a champion.
Yes things are running dry right now in terms of valid opponents -- but I blame that on them not being able to create content and contenders and not that there are two title holders.

As I said, at least at the PPV level (and somewhat regular TV) the title match content has a passing grade. If you take one of them away the TV content will be even crappier -- although I am not sure if they can go any further down in terms of "crap".

 

[ScrabbCuse]

It just makes no sense to me to have two champions. Somebody needs to be “the best”. Odd how the two champions almost never want to wrestle each other. Nobody wants to be “the best”? I know kayfabe is long dead and all, but come on.

The IC belt should be reestablished. It was a good way to establish guys as possible future world champions.

I’ll be honest. I don’t remember the last time the Intercontinental title was contested at a ppv. The champion is overshadowed by a guy who plays music for him. The title is basically a joke. Even the US title is getting a bigger push and I’m not sure why that title even exists.

 

[jncuse]

I’ll be honest. I don’t remember the last time the Intercontinental title was contested at a ppv. The champion is overshadowed by a guy who plays music for him. The title is basically a joke. Even the US title is getting a bigger push and I’m not sure why that title even exists.

I pretty much forget the history of the IC title after Austin won it in 1997. Even in the WWE heyday of 1997-2006?, they flipped that thing so much that at times it had meaning and others it did not.

 

[Alsacs]

M

I pretty much forget the history of the IC title after Austin won it in 1997. Even in the WWE heyday of 1997-2006?, they flipped that thing so much that at times it had meaning and others it did not.

Summerslam 1992 main event.
Bret Hart-British Bulldog great IC title match.

Rock-HHH SummerSlam 1998 was a great IC title match.

Steamboat-Macho Man WM3 probably best IC title match ever.

 

[jncuse]

From an interview Nick Khan did this weekend. No words...

Whether Raw would benefit to being reduced to two hours:

"From my point of view, Raw would benefit from being four hours, so we would get paid more money. And Smacksown would be eight hours. But I understand that our creative folks, as amazing as they are, there's only so much great content they can do on a weekly basis. So we're good with three and two system."

I used to argue that the 3rd hour of RAW really hurt the product, and they could produce so much better with only 2 hours (and that was based on Smackdown being a decent product until recently).

Now I would simply argue that whether the show is 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours or 4 hours or 12 hours the content will be unbearable. My WWE viewing for the most part is now this:
- Do not watch Raw or SmackDown
- Watch the PPV pre-shows (which I never did) so I can understand what happened in the past month.
- Watch the PPV's which for the most part have been OK (maybe not S'Slam(
- Listen to Post Wrestling and SNME Podcasts talk about Raw / Smackdown when I walk/bike, which they usually torch but not always. I actually enjoy listening to people talk about wrestling than watching it right now.


If the writing improves, I personally think a 2/2/1 format would make sense. As I said Smackdown written in WWE style was bearable until recently. Create some 1 hour "supershow" each week with one big match.

 

[jncuse]

I was just talking to my dad (he still watches wrestling in his seventies fairly regularly). He doesn't follow all the outside the ring stuff.

He brought up the Walter-Dragunov match from last night and asked me if those guys will be in the WWE shortly as they had a great match. I told him do you want a long answer or short answer. I gave him the short answer - Vince hates NXT and moved the conversation along.

 

[OrangeDW]

Early 90s WCW circa 1992 with Ross and Ventura on commentary, and guys like Rude, Steamboat, Anderson, Vader, Sting, Dustin Rhodes, Pillman, Austin, Simmons...highly underrated era. Holds up as an adult, 30 years later.

 

[Knicks411]

Fwiw, Meltzer said Becky pushed for the heel turn and it was her decision

Also, re: the Nxt cuts from a few weeks back, it was reported Nick Khan had nothing to do with it; it was all Vince/Bruce/Johnny Ace. And HHH didnt even know about them until the talent was informed..

 

[cusefan88]

M

Summerslam 1992 main event.
Bret Hart-British Bulldog great IC title match.

Rock-HHH SummerSlam 1998 was a great IC title match.

Steamboat-Macho Man WM3 probably best IC title match ever.

Michaels/Razor WM 10. Also for me the Rude-Warrior IC matches from WM5 and SS89. Rude always made warrior look good.

Damn...this really makes me miss when the IC title meant something and built wrestlers towards the top.

 

[OrangeDW]

I pretty much forget the history of the IC title after Austin won it in 1997. Even in the WWE heyday of 1997-2006?, they flipped that thing so much that at times it had meaning and others it did not.

Randy Orton and Shelton Benjamin both had long reigns to kindve “re-establish it” for awhile.

Jericho and Benoit had some great matches for it.

 

[jncuse]

Early 90s WCW circa 1992 with Ross and Ventura on commentary, and guys like Rude, Steamboat, Anderson, Vader, Sting, Dustin Rhodes, Pillman, Austin, Simmons...highly underrated era. Holds up as an adult, 30 years later.

It was a bit of a strange era. You can pop in to some PPV's and certainly be impressed because of the quality of the wrestlers. And then you could watch some really strange and bad stuff at times that had nothing to do with the wrestlers.

It was a time that the WCW had some of the most insane gimmicks and insane storylines in the history of wrestling. That early period (post Turner acquisition) WCW did not know what they were. But the quality of wrestlers they had was so high they certainly could overcome it at times.

 

[ScrabbCuse]

Read a recap of Raw and saw a few clips as I wouldn’t waste three hours on it. Looks like they are biding their time with Lashley until the draft in October. He had a short singles match with Damien Priest and then a tag team match with Sheamus against Priest and McIntyre. He left Sheamus to take on the other guys by himself so might be setting up a Sheamus face turn for a match at Extreme Rules.

Looks like Alexa Bliss is challenging Charlotte Flair for the title. Doesn’t excite me at all.

Miz finally turned on Morrison and attacked him setting up a long feud between them. Could be interesting as Miz is a hell of a showman.

Best part of Raw right now is RKBro. Riddle and Orton work well together and are deservedly getting main event status. Really the only good part of Raw.

 

[Knicks411]

It was a bit of a strange era. You can pop in to some PPV's and certainly be impressed because of the quality of the wrestlers. And then you could watch some really strange and bad stuff at times that had nothing to do with the wrestlers.

It was a time that the WCW had some of the most insane gimmicks and insane storylines in the history of wrestling. That early period (post Turner acquisition) WCW did not know what they were. But the quality of wrestlers they had was so high they certainly could overcome it at times.

The entire post Crockett to Bischoff era was crazy because it seemed like they changed the guy in charge every few months.

 

[OrangeDW]

Read a recap of Raw and saw a few clips as I wouldn’t waste three hours on it. Looks like they are biding their time with Lashley until the draft in October. He had a short singles match with Damien Priest and then a tag team match with Sheamus against Priest and McIntyre. He left Sheamus to take on the other guys by himself so might be setting up a Sheamus face turn for a match at Extreme Rules.

Looks like Alexa Bliss is challenging Charlotte Flair for the title. Doesn’t excite me at all.

Miz finally turned on Morrison and attacked him setting up a long feud between them. Could be interesting as Miz is a hell of a showman.

Best part of Raw right now is RKBro. Riddle and Orton work well together and are deservedly getting main event status. Really the only good part of Raw.

I can’t get into Riddle at all. Seems like a great athlete, but that goofball character. Cmon. Nobody acts like that, lol. I can’t do it.

 

[jncuse]

The entire post Crockett to Bischoff era was crazy because it seemed like they changed the guy in charge every few months.

With all that talent they still give a spot in the four horseman to... Paul Roma!
(I guess that was 1993)

 

[Knicks411]

I can’t get into Riddle at all. Seems like a great athlete, but that goofball character. Cmon. Nobody acts like that, lol. I can’t do it.

Meltzer has written that Vince thinks the character is hilarious. He definitely can be funny, but thats also not a main event gimmick.

I feel like part of the Riddle/Orton gimmick is supposed to be like Riddle is the younger brother who worships the older brother type deal, but Riddle is 35 and Orton is 41. I dunno. Feels weird to me.

 

[ScrabbCuse]

One of the only good things in WWE right now is the Corbin character. Wish they utilized this guy better.

 

[OrangeDW]

It was a bit of a strange era. You can pop in to some PPV's and certainly be impressed because of the quality of the wrestlers. And then you could watch some really strange and bad stuff at times that had nothing to do with the wrestlers.

It was a time that the WCW had some of the most insane gimmicks and insane storylines in the history of wrestling. That early period (post Turner acquisition) WCW did not know what they were. But the quality of wrestlers they had was so high they certainly could overcome it at times.

Yeah, some of the direction at times was just head scratching. Like when they banned jumping off the top rope. Smh.

But yeah, lots of random really good matches. And I guess, as an adult I appreciate that most of the stars were like...normal people and not complete goofball caricatures? And the matches were treated more like actual athletic competitions than gymnastics or daredevil MTV Jackass stunts.

 

[jncuse]

Yeah, some of the direction at times was just head scratching. Like when they banned jumping off the top rope. Smh.

But yeah, lots of random really good matches. And I guess, as an adult I appreciate that most of the stars were like...normal people and not complete goofball caricatures? And the matches were treated more like actual athletic competitions than gymnastics or daredevil MTV Jackass stunts.

I remember Beach Blast having some stupid movie one year. Looked it up and it was 1993. But in researching that, I also found some commentary on 1992 Beach Blast and it had positive reviews and it had some very highly regarded matches (Steamboat/Rude)

Might load that one up later today.

 

[jncuse]

I am a mild fan of RKBro - not huge, but don't mind it. WWE Corny works at times (although well below 50%). I think despite some not liking them they are generally very over with the crowd right now.

But here is the rub. Even if they are a strong act right now, the WWE is still stuck as they have no quality opponents set up or will be unable to create some to create heat. The act can only continue to work if they have some opponents that continue to highlight them. They can only go with AJ Styles so long.

Since the WWE has no competition for them, they will just do the same thing for a month or two until they have to rush to the inevitable split.

I am not sure why Randy Orton was away for about 6 weeks, but that was probably the best thing for the act. Otherwise Vince probably would have broken them up already.

 

[OrangeDW]

I remember Beach Blast having some stupid movie one year. Looked it up and it was 1993. But in researching that, I also found some commentary on 1992 Beach Blast and it had positive reviews and it had some very highly regarded matches (Steamboat/Rude)

Might load that one up later today.

I just did WrestleWar 1992. Could probably skip to the last 3 matches, and be highly entertained. Pillman-Zenk, Steiners-Fujinami/Iizuka, and the War Games match : Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting, Steamboat, Rhodes, Windham, Koloff.

 

[jncuse]

One of the only good things in WWE right now is the Corbin character. Wish they utilized this guy better.

About a month ago the WWE trademarked "Happy Corbin". No further comment.