Time to move on: next year's forwards

[OttoinGrotto]

but we aren't contending for a title next year.

You are really sure of a lot of things you can't possibly know. This has been a difficult day for you.

 

[RF2044]

People are going to attack you for not having your Orange colored glasses on. Everything is fine no problem.

Asinine post. When you espouse off the wall perspectives, expect to get challenged. That doesn't have anything to do with having Orange colored glasses.

 

[RF2044]

Last year he provided our offense little things that it desperately needed, though not in volume as we needed. Hopefully him and cooney are much more consistent this year.

-An occasional perimeter threat, he does have a good shot and hit a few offense sparking threes throughout conference play. Think of the Duke (@ cameron) and Virginia games.

-He also, throughout last year, had the ability to penetrate into defenses and dish down low to an open big. Unfortunately for G, the big he often found wide open was BMK. I never understood why JB ever let BMK be the 5 while G was running point last year. I think G, as a guard, offers us a player who can penetrate and create open looks for other players. Hopefully he can put on a little muscle too because he's pretty good at getting to the basket, but weak on the finish. He has the ability to finish above the rim as well, we saw a flash of that on his backdoor dunk vs Dayton...and his several missed dunks throughout the season unfortunately.

As a forward he offers us as you said a solid glue player. He can hit mid and long range shots but I see him just being the kid with a motor. He gives more effort on defense and rebound than any other forward I've seen in a while. You guys loved BMK for his defensive abilities. Forget the shoe mistake vs. Dayton and realize that for most of last season, G gave us some solid D around the perimeter and get a lot of steals that led to a little transition.

None of my comments are jabs at you RF or anyone else.

My opinion of G hasn't changed much from when I watched him during preseason practice. He was a decent athlete, but not a spectacular one. He had good size as a 2, but his game is played "smaller" than a 3 [for some reason, his size just doesn't seem to translate into rebounds]. He has weird shooting mechanics that limit his upside as a three point shooter; as you point out, he can make some, but is probably going to max out as a ~35% guy--and that's okay for a complimentary shooter. I thought in general that his handle was subpar, and that he wasn't much of a threat to beat people off of the dribble unless he was catching a pass behind the defense that gave him a lane to drive. And I saw very little throughout the season to alter those early observations.

Now, that said, he played every game, but not a TON of minutes--so maybe he's capable of doing more with increased minutes. He DOES offer solid D on the perimeter, although I believe that's more a function of his size than it is him having superior defensive attributes. I didn't see much to give me hope that he'd develop into a consistent scorer, but I do think he can be a solid contributor.

I hope you're right--but I fear that there isn't much offensive upside.

 

[orange79]

I suspect you will be disappointed.

Hope you don't mind that I fixed this for ya

 

[cuseguy]

Believe me I want to be more optimistic, but this team struggled offensively, now take away fair,cj, and ennis, that is asking a lot. I like the talent that we have, but that is a lot to lose, and a lot of inexperience.

If you mean we're not going to the Final 4 or winning a national title next year, you're probably right.

I like to think of SU basketball as wintertime entertainment, like going to the movies twice a week.

Last season, we saw 28 good movies, six bad ones, most of them at the end.

If we see that many movies next season, I venture to guess we're going to see more bad movies than this past season.

If you think that way -- just movies -- you'll be fine.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

there is a boatload of talent on next year's team. It is unproven talent, but the raw materials are there. Roberson was ranked 37th in RSCI, McCullough is currently 14, and Gbinijie was 28. I don't think JB has ever had three top 40 ranked HS forwards on his roster at the same time. And if DC can play, he'll have two former McD AAs at center. The backcourt is the big question, and it would be foolish to expect Joseph to come in and dominate from the start like Ennis did, but he has the talent and athleticism to be very good by the time March rolls around. If Cooney can find more consistency with his shot, I believe that this will be a 2nd weekend team.

The prevailing view on this board is pessimistic about next year, but I am very upbeat.

I'm always upbeat - even when I don't think we'll be very good (and it's been quite awhile since I thought that going into a season)...

I just enjoy watching the team play and watching each season unfold.

Always a great ride.

 

[Dave85]

Asinine post. When you espouse off the wall perspectives, expect to get challenged. That doesn't have anything to do with having Orange colored glasses.

Hey Beevis, heh, heh, he said asinine.

 

[orange79]

If you mean we're not going to the Final 4 or winning a national title next year, you're probably right.

I like to think of SU basketball as wintertime entertainment, like going to the movies twice a week.

Last season, we saw 28 good movies, six bad ones, most of them at the end.

If we see that many movies next season, I venture to guess we're going to see more bad movies than this past season.

If you think that way -- just movies -- you'll be fine.

Problem is, I don't live and die over movies...

 

[cuseguy]

Problem is, I don't live and die over movies...

I'm trying to change my mindset. It's healthier. Next year could throw me over the edge if I don't.

 

[shermstheman]

Does Gbinije start at the point or small forward?

Due to G's versatility I don't think he starts- he's first off the bench for whomever makes the first mistake. Early exhibitions will be interesting to see how ready the incoming guys are...and where we'll see G spend his time.

 

[AZOrange]

Hopefully chaos includes some M2M and pressure defense. With three new starters maybe there's hope for that.

Zero chance.

 

[Bayside44]

Jerami Grant will be a first round pick. His weakness is shooting. If he returned to Syracuse he wasnt going to be allowed to shoot jumpers without JB yelling at him. He shot less 3pt shots this year than he did as a FR. He needs to be able to hit 15-20 ft jumpers in the NBA. Grant coming back would be great for us fans and JB, but its clearly not in his best interest. I mean its obvious. JB's coaching style is great, but he and Grant have different agendas. Grant wants to get better for the NBA game and JB wants to win games. Grant made the smart decision I think at worst he goes to the Celtics 2nd 1st round pick at 18. Danny Ainge likes Grant's motor.

JB let Hak shoot, let Wallace shoot, let KJo shoot, let Fair shoot...

 

[llandz]

This is the type of situation where JB has been known to excel. Only question is does he still have the patience necessary while the pieces are coming together. I think player personalities will be a huge factor. If the players buy into a system or not.

 

[Brian Orange]

Next year we will be built to succeed in February and March, not November and December, and as we've all seen recently that's ALL that matters.

 

[rrlbees]

No disrespect to CJ or Grant but from a pure basketball perspective and disregarding experience ...

Roberson + McCullough > Fair + Grant

 

[cuseguy]

No disrespect to CJ or Grant but from a pure basketball perspective and disregarding experience ...

Roberson + McCullough > Fair + Grant

I think you're right, but the growing pains are going to be, well, painful.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Roberson has the potential to be really good. He already shot his jumper more confidently than Grant when he played, and looked to have good form. Lots of guys improve for Syracuse their sophomore year and he's my top pick for that. I really think our offense has good potential next year. I like Johnson's upside as well. I think the new guys might not be as limited offensively as the current group was. I think what you might see happen is the zone be weaker at the start of the year. If they get better in the zone as the year advances we should be able to win games. I like the potential of this group, it will be exciting to see new guys play. I'm also interested to see if roc and Cooney can step up and lead these guys.

 

[cuseguy]

Roberson has the potential to be really good. He already shot his jumper more confidently than Grant when he played, and looked to have good form. Lots of guys improve for Syracuse their sophomore year and he's my top pick for that. I really think our offense has good potential next year. I like Johnson's upside as well. I think the new guys might not be as limited offensively as the current group was. I think what you might see happen is the zone be weaker at the start of the year. If they get better in the zone as the year advances we should be able to win games. I like the potential of this group, it will be exciting to see new guys play. I'm also interested to see if roc and Cooney can step up and lead these guys.

Roberson is the key next year. He needs to come close to matching Fair's output. A big leap from his freshman year.

McCullough needs to come close to matching Grant's numbers. Certainly possible.

I think Joseph matches Ennis' numbers, but will he be as poised and heady?

Christmas is Christmas. Hopefully with a few more presents.

Cooney needs to be more consistent. More up and less down games.

Mike G needs to be solid off the bench, a true sixth man with a little more scoring punch.

We need something from BJ and Buss.

Obokoh needs to be Keita with hands.

It would be nice if Coleman was healthy. A real boost.

This roster still scares me if Coleman isn't ready and one guy goes down. That's eight players.

 

[two3zone]

No disrespect to CJ or Grant but from a pure basketball perspective and disregarding experience ... Roberson + McCullough > Fair + Grant

Huh? A first round draft pick and a first team all American and pre season ACC player of the year worse than an incoming freshman and a guy who looked lost all season. This takes the cake.

 

[swish7]

I agree--all three of the "Sons" are going to be positioned to play big minutes next year. The opportunity is there for each one of them to step up and emerge as contributors, and it is within each of their three respective capabilities to do so.

If there's one positive aspect to the early departures of Ennis / Grant, its that all of these youngsters are going to be pushed out of the nest and expected to fly--because the only way we can be successful next year is for this trio to rise to the occasion. Same goes for incoming frosh Joseph / McCullough.

This thread actually excites me a little. I like that next year's roster does not have the typical "guaranteed minutes" player. Everybody is even, and as such, should earn their playing time through their performance. Low expectations = less disappointment.

 

[Czar]

Huh? A first round draft pick and a first team all American and pre season ACC player of the year worse than an incoming freshman and a guy who looked lost all season. This takes the cake.

Fair had inflated stats due to his at times ridiculous usage this year. There were points where he neared 1/3 of our offensive usage. On pur talent, yeah, McCullough and Roberson are better.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

I'll be the first one to say that some people on this board have their orange glasses duck taped and sodded to their faces.

However, I really do not understand how people are already giving up on next year. I mean really? Are you serious? This is an incredibly athletic, talented team.

We have Rak and Cooney who have both been to the final 4. Rak's been to 2 elite 8s. The experience is there.

Rak/BJ/McCullough/Gbinije and Roberson are all athletic freaks.


We'll go through growing pains, but by no means are we an NIT team.

Most posters are worried about the lack of experience coming back, but are overlooking a mostly hidden factor that Trueblue touches on. . . paragraphs 2 & 4 above. Last year's team had to function well in a half-court offense because that's the way Ennis played. Cooney got hounded because defenses had plenty of time to set up for him and take him out of the game. Mike G and Christmas didn't shoot, for the most part, and Keita couldn't shoot, so everything came down to CJ and Ennis. SU's legendary transition game was put into mothballs, and players like Roberson, who would likely have been beasts in an up-and-down game, never fit in.

Throw all that out for next year. Joseph looks like he'll serve up a steady diet of broken ankles, and if he's as capable of pushing the ball up-court, he'll enable those "athletic freaks" you speak of play in their comfort zone. And if SU can make frequent open court plays, that will allow Cooney to get open and in rhythm for his threes, making him better as well. I see . . . possibilities.-VBOF

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Most posters are worried about the lack of experience coming back, but are overlooking a mostly hidden factor that Trueblue touches on. . . paragraphs 2 & 4 above. Last year's team had to function well in a half-court offense because that's the way Ennis played. Cooney got hounded because defenses had plenty of time to set up for him and take him out of the game. Mike G and Christmas didn't shoot, for the most part, and Keita couldn't shoot, so everything came down to CJ and Ennis. SU's legendary transition game was put into mothballs, and players like Roberson, who would likely have been beasts in an up-and-down game, never fit in.

Throw all that out for next year. Joseph looks like he'll serve up a steady diet of broken ankles, and if he's as capable of pushing the ball up-court, he'll enable those "athletic freaks" you speak of play in their comfort zone. And if SU can make frequent open court plays, that will allow Cooney to get open and in rhythm for his threes, making him better as well. I see . . . possibilities.-VBOF

Fantastic post.

 

[SWC75]

Hate to say it, but Jimmy will do the opposite and tighten the reigns with the "unproven" guys. Look for a lot of quick hooks w G (who looks really out of position at SF) getting too many frontcourt minutes as Jimmy will not let youngsters play through very many miscues.

Who does he replace them with? We have nothing but unproven forwards and there's no really back-up point guard. Cooney's back-up will be Patterson and Christmas will be backed up by Coleman and Obokoh. Where do we have an unproven guy backed up by a proven guy JB would prefer?

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

This isn't designed to be a knock on G, but I just don't see what you and others see offensively from him. I think people remember the final game and are expecting that to be what we get consistently--but I'm not so sure. He has the look / skill set of a role player to me--not that there's anything wrong with that. A glue guy who can play a couple of positions, provide some complimentary shooting / ball handling, but who's upside is about 6-7 ppg.

Again, not that there's anything wrong with that. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see him as a starting caliber 2 or 3, I see him as [this is going back a ways] Cornell Parker from UVa, a swing player who is capable of manning multiple positions and provides valuable contributions, but isn't a "star"

Get ready to be wrong my friend. Gbinije's issues has very little to do with talent, but more to do with how he views himself on the team. Next year when he realizes that he will be relied upon more, you will see a more offensive-minded player who will be looking to carry the team. I heard through the grape vine that he has been killing it pick-up games, scoring the most points as the point guard in the first game. I also heard that Gbinije, Roberson, and Peterson have been the best players so far in the free flowing, coachless pick-up games so far this off-season. If you don't want take my word for it, find a team manager and ask about the stats. You would also be dissappointed that your boy Cooney has being pretty much shot down due to the man-2-man defense of Gbinije and Peterson.

Sorry RF2044.