105 Wins & 73 Losses

[FrancoPizza]

That is Nebraska football logic nuts.

Being unranked and forgotten for 5 straight years should not be acceptable under any circumstances. Any top 15 school would not tolerate this unless the coach had won a title or had blackmail photos.

 

[dasher]

Yea that's kind of a big deal. Seeing as we have playing time to sell and can't even get a serious look from anyone who's an impact player. Seeing as JB's ISO system relies heavily on talent. This has been a major problem.

A small uptick isn't going to get us anywhere unless you like being a middle of the pack ACC team.

UVA doesn't have real quality bigs. They do okay. And we did get a serious look from Stewart. Try to stay honest.

 

[Bayside44]

Being unranked and forgotten for 5 straight years should not be acceptable under any circumstances. Any top 15 school would not tolerate this unless the coach had won a title or had blackmail photos.

We went to a Final Four and a Sweet 16 in the last 3 years. If anyone fired a coach for that they would be justly pilloried here and everywhere else.

 

[dasher]

Being unranked and forgotten for 5 straight years should not be acceptable under any circumstances. Any top 15 school would not tolerate this unless the coach had won a title or had blackmail photos.

the last 6 years we have been to two final fours. Where does that factor in to your post?

 

[FrancoPizza]

the last 6 years we have been to two final fours. Where does that factor in to your post?

If we're on the bubble with a new coach for 5 straight years I'm not expecting a F4 and S16. Some don't realize how improbable that was. It is highly unlikely that a new coach's system will rely on the zone's lack of familiarity to surprise teams in the tournament. It is also by the razor thinnest of margins that we made the tournament last year -- it's conveniently lost in the shuffle just how mediocre these regular seasons have been.
If you're suggesting that the riding the bubble every year is acceptable and good for the program's long term health then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I want to enjoy regular seasons again and being in the discussion. This "thing" we have going on where we hope to confuse a team or two in the first weekend and pull an upset is getting old. Is that what this program has become? Is this how other schools perceive Syracuse? As the bearded fat lady in the circus that nobody wants to dance with?

 

[BomberOrange]

We have seen an uptick. We have Quincy and Goodine coming in next year and Jalen came in last year. That is better than the guards we had come in outside of Battle in the last 4-5 years.

Hope you're right but I'm not holding my breath...I'm sure they're great for the zone though.

 

[Nahson]

STiLl sUCkZ, enD TimZ r HeRE!!!

Wasn't going to comment on the thread, but this is the lamest comeback on the internet.

 

[dasher]

If we're on the bubble with a new coach for 5 straight years I'm not expecting a F4 and S16. Some don't realize how improbable that was. It is highly unlikely that a new coach's system will rely on the zone's lack of familiarity to surprise teams in the tournament. It is also by the razor thinnest of margins that we made the tournament last year -- it's conveniently lost in the shuffle just how mediocre these regular seasons have been.
If you're suggesting that the riding the bubble every year is acceptable and good for the program's long term health then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I want to enjoy regular seasons again and being in the discussion. This "thing" we have going on where we hope to confuse a team or two in the first weekend and pull an upset is getting old. Is that what this program has become? Is this how other schools perceive Syracuse? As the bearded fat lady in the circus that nobody wants to dance with?

Yeah, that is what I am saying. How about this, even in our dips, we have made runs in the tournament. We went through the sanctions and still managed to matter in March.

 

[djcon57]

Aren't we already fairly irrelevant? This will be the 5th straight year that we aren't even ranked in the final AP poll. 5th straight year with 13+ losses.

Nah, not irrelevant, just more of a rich man’s Temple of the 90s. The tough tourney team. The bad matchup team

We have the wacky old coach with his tough defense if you don’t know how to beat it.

 

[Edfromsodus]

2 final fours in 5 years.

Imagine this team with a PG. Ennis, or Sherm.

 

[chugg21]

Nah, not irrelevant, just more of a rich man’s Temple of the 90s. The tough tourney team. The bad matchup team

We have the wacky old coach with his tough defense if you don’t know how to beat it.

Not a bad example.

 

[Alsacs]

Our offensive philosophy is just disgusting.
It is being used as a defense of why Tyus Battle should be given more credit for NBA potential.
The zone defense works. Do I wish we would adjust against certain teams or situations? Yes, but JB is that tenured professor who doesn’t care what anyone else thinks.

Our offense is embarrassing. Flat out and the excuse the coach can’t coacj up the players is so bad it’s a joke.
The coaches job is to COACH UP the players and teach them basketball and plays.
How do they learn the zone but they can’t learn offensive sets.
Our isolation offense is so dumb but it doesn’t change.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

One thing to remember. Say JB gets fired after this season (he wont) but for the sake of argument, how many of our signees dont come here? You’ll really see chit hit the fan

 

[jgeorge322]

What's more likely - that the small-league Upstate high school kid is one of the best shooters in Syracuse University history...or that he isn't?

id be surprised personally if he suddenly lost his touch.

people complained that we got too many one and dones. not enough pure basketball players. now, we get the kid who doesnt hit all the measurables but is a light outs shooter, and that isnt good either.

 

[SU94]

Our offense is embarrassing. Flat out and the excuse the coach can’t coacj up the players is so bad it’s a joke.
The coaches job is to COACH UP the players and teach them basketball and plays.
How do they learn the zone but they can’t learn offensive sets.
Our isolation offense is so dumb but it doesn’t change.

Alsacs, where does this notion that JAB and staff are lacking in player development come from?
It is utter nonsense. Let's think about it ...

• Battle: Much improved/well rounded. Has learned how to play a little point. Strong development.
• Howard: Cannot ignore the context of injury this year. It's a bummer to watch. That said, Frank was VITAL to last year's successes. He was a top 5 PG in the ACC in 2017-18. Was he anywhere near that as a frosh or sophomore? No. Good development.
• Buddy: Small sample, only one season to analyze, but he went from dismal in Nov and Dec to a vital cog at present. He's broken out of his basketball shell. Solid development.
• Hughes: Averaged about 7.8 PPG for ECU int eh American two years ago. Now averaging nearly 14 PPG in the ACC. Had a year to bone up on the system and fine tune his game under the watchful eye of SU staff. Strong development.
• Dolezaj: If you cannot see how he's improved the last 16 months, I cannot help you. Strong development.
• Brisset: I think he is essentially the same as last year, other than he's dropped about 12-14% on his FT percentage. Also not getting to the line like he did last year. I've been more encouraged the last 6-8 games (Monday/UVa nonwithstandng). Less jump shooting, more driving. He's a 4-year player who got more run out these past 2 years out of necessity (sanctions!). Slight downturn.
• Chukwu: His rise has been gradual in nature, but he is definitively a better player now than he was 2-3 years ago. Still inconsistent, but improving in this area too. Solid development.
• Sidibe: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury.
• Carey: Incomplete due to lack of playing time.
• Washington: Incomplete due to lack of playing time/injury

So, by my count: 3 strong developments, 1 good development, 2 solid development, 1 slight downturn, 3 incomplete.

 

[OttoMets]

id be surprised personally if he suddenly lost his touch.

people complained that we got too many one and dones. not enough pure basketball players. now, we get the kid who doesnt hit all the measurables but is a light outs shooter, and that isnt good either.

I'm not saying it's not good that they recruited him, I'm just skeptical that he could contribute next year. After all, that's not the usual course of events even for good freshmen. Consider Jalen Carey, who actually is athletic and a surprisingly strong defender for a freshman. He can't play. And it's unlikely that this kid's as good as he is.

I look forward to any decent basketball player on the roster, especially one who might play for four years. I'm not pinning any 2020 hopes on a high school kid leapfrogging Boeheim, Carey, Washington, and maybe Hughes, though.

 

[jgeorge322]

I'm not saying it's not good that they recruited him, I'm just skeptical that he could contribute next year. After all, that's not the usual course of events even for good freshmen. Consider Jalen Carey, who actually is athletic and a surprisingly strong defender for a freshman. He can't play. And it's unlikely that this kid's as good as he is.

I look forward to any decent basketball player on the roster, especially one who might play for four years. I'm not pinning any 2020 hopes on a high school kid leapfrogging Boeheim, Carey, Washington, and maybe Hughes, though.

no one said hes jumping every guard on the team. and he doesnt need to to contribute. but im not saying girard is playing next year either. it wouldnt surprise me if he struggles. but you never know. he does have an elite talent.

 

[gilardino]

#'s do not lie

Feb 14th - 2014 - 25-0 streak ended with a loss against BC
2013–14 Syracuse Orange men's basketball team - Wikipedia

That team had 7 - yes 7 SU players drafted, signed as free agents by NBA teams - some never made it to the show, but all were at least on G teams - 7 players from that team is just incredible

Since then our record 105 wins & 73 losses

This is not about sanctions, did we stop recruiting players? We had less slots to give so yes we had to have a better batting average and yes we were limited to coaches on the road, however deal with the cards you are dealt, the record is the record , you still signed kids

Our offense is not an offense

Read the recent article about Tyus and the NBA scouts - embarrassing - about 6 scouts commented on his game and each basically said he plays 1 on 1 basketball up at SU b/c they do not run offense

We have a coach unwilling to make changes, the broken record continues every game, make a change please, put in different players, i for one would have liked to see Braswell play some, take Oshae out some, not the entire game, but give him a chance, JB is the only head coach in america who talks about well they are freshmen, yes freshmen are the kids that make up the largest % of the nba draft each season

i can't even watch frank howard play basketball anymore, hurt or not, can JB make an adjustment? I mean the guy was so bad vs VA, he has been horrible all season, i feel bad for him, but he is not getting any better with age, this is not a fine wine, we had 3 PG's to start the year, 2 of them just sit on the bench,

what about talking to the press and just providing more and more info to our competition - like - why is he telling the press that Elijah is just not ready, he can't drive around anyone or continue to insult Pascal about what he is NOT

Does "Inspire" exist in that locker room?

Or embarrassing the kids during post game press conferences - just ask Oshae how he feels

I wish each of you could see the 2 hour practices each day - I have only witnessed JB sitting on his chair and watching them run up and down the court, he is not involved with any of the 1st hour of practice, he watches while the other coaches are with their groups

I have never seen JB on the court with the players working before or after practice - never, now, maybe he does, but maybe he doesn't, i just find it very strange

He does not relate to the kids today, i thought it would be different w/ Buddy on the team, but it's not

This is about coaching & recruiting

We are no longer a tier 1 program, clearly middle of the pack

Why should we think the future should be any better w/out changes?

(Gilardino - thanks for the info)

Time for changes to be made

I appreciate the shout out! you post is solid, hate to say that but its true

 

[SUFan44]

The reason this is a five-page thread in a matter of hours is because there's at least some merit to what the original poster said.

Sanctions, coaching, recruiting, all of it plays a role. But I guess my question to everyone here is this: How do you measure a season of SU basketball and call it a successful one?

In 2005-06, we stunk in the regular season and made a miraculous run in the Big East Tournament. Won the title then lost in the first round. I would consider that a successful season, based on who was on the team and who we had lost the year before.

Even last year, we lost five guys (Roberson, Lydon, White, Gillon & Thompson) who had started games for us and added just two players - Brissett & Dolezaj - that would help our team immediately. They weren't very good in the regular season, barely made the NCAA Tournament but made a Sweet 16 run. I would consider that a successful season considering what we had to work with.

But this year is completely different. We had all five starters back, added a transfer who was ballyhooed by our head coach as being a premier offensive talent, added a Top 50 point guard, added an elite level shooter and had a couple guys coming off injury that were presumably healthy and ready to go.

Losing Howard hurt to start the season and do I know what this team would look like with the summer version of Frank at this point in time? No. I wish I knew. But there has been an alarming regression of some players, others have been basically the same and it appears to me, at least, that there is just an overall lack of adjustment to what we have and who we have. Offensive philosophy, defensive philosophy. It's all the same, no matter what. No matter who is on the team, no matter what injuries there are. It just is.

This season still has a long way to go. The team could absolutely get on a run to end the season -- win against Clemson, beat Miami in the opening round and even beat Duke or UNC in the quarterfinals. Who knows, quite honestly. Then they get a six or seven seed in the NCAA's, avoid playing #1 until the regional final and make an Elite 8. I'd consider that a positive year.

But the roster composition recently has been very worrisome, the talent level (and as mentioned before, the lack of improvement of players from year to year) is not what it needs to be to compete for Top 25 status and the brand of basketball just seems stale to me. And as I mentioned a long time ago on this very board and stick by today -- something needs to change.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So SU Dreaming - It's easy to say we've had some down years. Obviously we're not performing to what we're all used to. So what's your solution? Fire JB? Because that's what it sounds like

It is getting time for him to go. I really wanted to see him put together one more great team, but unless the recruiting gets better in the next year or two, I think he's going to go out just like we're playing right now. We're just waiting in purgatory for 3 more years. I love watching Buddy, though. Great kid, really helps the team.

 

[IthacaMatt]

That’s still worse than we should be. Equivalent of a 20-12 season.

Our average year for the first 30+ years was 24-6, a 75% win rate.
Usually we made the Sweet 16. That was our expectation - playing on the second weekend.
It's not just recruiting; it's lack of player development and the awful offense we run.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Embarrassing to whom and how? What, did you walk into work yesterday and everyone started making fun of you? I assume you’re an adult living New Mexico. I can’t imagine anyone gives a crap about what happens with your alma mater’s sportsball teams, good or bad.

This is kind of a dick comment.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If JBs replacement starts his tenure with a six year run like our last six. Do we keep him?

There it is.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Zero percent chance JB is forced out any time soon. Everyone clamoring that a change is needed honestly need to and find a new team, because these endless posts about change needed are tiresome and annoying. Make the change personally and move on.

My guess is this will play out somewhat similar to football, where the next guy struggles. My hope is we don’t turn into Indiana - a once-power program that is now borderline irrelevant. Anyone that underplays that risk MASSIVELY understates the risk in replacing a HOF coach.

We have a program that still sells 24,000 tickets to its games. That program props up the entire athletic department. I will be very disappointed if we don't get a guy who can win right out of the gate here.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Who wouldn't want Tony Bennett here? Those people are morons.

That's like saying "who wouldn't want Jamie Dixon?"
He's effective, but that's ugly basketball to watch.
Generally speaking, they do not hit almost 20 threes per game.
Usually, it's a rock fight in the 50s when you play against a Bennett team.
I don't think our fans will get that excited about that kind of ball.
Fans want us to run and gun again. We used to run like crazy out of the zone. What happened?