An Open letter to Mark Coyle

[FAL]

I am no fan of sending Shafer off to another job as I feel he is doing just fine here. Has faced a lot of obstacles and as a season ticket holder for 10+ years I am more optimistic now than any year before. I am as tired of losses and the next man but at least the games are fun and at times my wife will even stop shopping on her IPhone and watch the game. If we can get 4-5 more good recruits and keep what we have I think the future is bright. When I see the interviews of these young men they seem reasonably intelligent and well spoken. That is a good thing and one must also remember that they are having the microphone and camera in their face at a young age of 18-20! I am not so sure how well I would have handled that at that age but then again no one asked for my interview - go figure!

Good post, doc. Do it more often

 

[anglerman]

Appreciate that, and believe me, I'm not asking everyone to agree with me. I'm just putting my own personal views out there.

I completely agree with you and think you're just being objective. To many people can't see the big picture. They want results now but can't see that progress is definitely being made and in a big way.

 

[jr4750]

jekelish is Jake Pickard dating Shafs daughter? That's risky... Lol

 

[jekelish]

jekelish is Jake Pickard dating Shafs daughter? That's risky... Lol

I honestly couldn't tell you. I know they are friends.

 

[Alsacs]

Insanity is thy name if people think the possibility of transfers should keep SS as HC. First off any transfer would need a release from Syracuse. There is no way the school would grant these requests before a new staff has a chance to meet them.

If kids want to leave that would suck but I am not keeping SS just so any player doesn't transfer. The spin by some is just insanity. We deserve to suck with some of the crap out of the echo chamber. SS is a good man but hasn't proven anything yet. Keeping the guy for other reasons atleast makes sense. However Z-E-R-O consideration to potential players transferring.

 

[Finwad32]

There should be ZERO "0" speculation on which kids would or wouldn't leave if coaching changes do or don't happen. It's BS, no names should be dragged into that and start unnecessary speculation.

 

[CuseCactus]

I wish the OP was my boss. In the real world, no way Shafer survives. Happily, football isn't reality. It's a pastime. I shoulda gone into coaching.

 

[TheCusian]

Insanity is thy name if people think the possibility of transfers should keep SS as HC. First off any transfer would need a release from Syracuse. There is no way the school would grant these requests before a new staff has a chance to meet them. If kids want to leave that would suck but I am not keeping SS just so any player doesn't transfer. The spin by some is just insanity. We deserve to suck with some of the crap out of the echo chamber. SS is a good man but hasn't proven anything yet. Keeping the guy for other reasons atleast makes sense. However Z-E-R-O consideration to potential players transferring.

I repeat: 2013 was better than 3 of the 4 Marrone years. That's something. They also found a QB in Oregon who might be the best since McNabb. That's another something. He's routinely led the defense as DC and then as HC to top 40 finishes. That's something too. We had #25 Pitt on the ropes and had it come down to a last second FG. We stop them on the fake FG, and your "he hasn't beaten a rank team" BS gets flushed. That's something.

As for consideration? I would think about it like this: the players clearly love and respect him. That goes in the good pile, no?

 

[anomander]

If people knew some of the names who would leave...they'd be terrified for the future of Syracuse football. Obviously I won't say who. But believe me, these are impactful players on this roster.

I'm not at all saying Shafer should go, but i'm sorry but this part is BS. Kids may say this right now, but kids who are starting, or playing key roles as Freshman aren't going to transfer somewhere only to sit out a year somewhere else. Plus the fact that Syracuse can block kids transfers to certain schools will really discourage this. They may say this now, and be PO'd if Shafer is let go, but what if he is let go, and is brought in with 1 of these hot up and comers. You don't think the new guy would be able to come in and sell the kid on staying? When the emotions are taking out of it, and the players really have to make that decision if they want to sit out a full year I just don't say many, if at all making that choice.

Also, if it gets to that point I really don't think Coyle should even consider future recruits, or player transfers. Sure there ultimately may be some, but we really don't have any current commits that are so important you wouldn't make a coaching move over, and player transfers aren't very common just because the current school makes it difficult, and the new guy will surely have a nice sales pitch on why to stay and continue to start without having to sit out a full season.

 

[RICuse44]

I am no fan of sending Shafer off to another job as I feel he is doing just fine here. Has faced a lot of obstacles and as a season ticket holder for 10+ years I am more optimistic now than any year before. I am as tired of losses and the next man but at least the games are fun and at times my wife will even stop shopping on her IPhone and watch the game. If we can get 4-5 more good recruits and keep what we have I think the future is bright. When I see the interviews of these young men they seem reasonably intelligent and well spoken. That is a good thing and one must also remember that they are having the microphone and camera in their face at a young age of 18-20! I am not so sure how well I would have handled that at that age but then again no one asked for my interview - go figure!

I think that's the true litmus test- getting the wife (or husband/children-I'm an equal opportunity cuse fan) in o out down the iPhone is a good sign.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I repeat: 2013 was better than 3 of the 4 Marrone years. That's something. They also found a QB in Oregon who might be the best since McNabb. That's another something. He's routinely led the defense as DC and then as HC to top 40 finishes. That's something too. We had #25 Pitt on the ropes and had it come down to a last second FG. We stop them on the fake FG, and your "he hasn't beaten a rank team" BS gets flushed. That's something.

As for consideration? I would think about it like this: the players clearly love and respect him. That goes in the good pile, no?

Pathetic. If you think 2013 was better than 2010, you really are blinded. 2010 brought this program back from the dead. We were the worst BCS team in America two years prior. That season was 1,000 times more fun and exciting than 2013, we laid some eggs at home but the length some will go here to back is mid blowing. Wvu, USF, Rutgers, Cincinnati were all quality wins. My god.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm not at all saying Shafer should go, but i'm sorry but this part is BS. Kids may say this right now, but kids who are starting, or playing key roles as Freshman aren't going to transfer somewhere only to sit out a year somewhere else. Plus the fact that Syracuse can block kids transfers to certain schools will really discourage this. They may say this now, and be PO'd if Shafer is let go, but what if he is let go, and is brought in with 1 of these hot up and comers. You don't think the new guy would be able to come in and sell the kid on staying? When the emotions are taking out of it, and the players really have to make that decision if they want to sit out a full year I just don't say many, if at all making that choice.

Also, if it gets to that point I really don't think Coyle should even consider future recruits, or player transfers. Sure there ultimately may be some, but we really don't have any current commits that are so important you wouldn't make a coaching move over, and player transfers aren't very common just because the current school makes it difficult, and the new guy will surely have a nice sales pitch on why to stay and continue to start without having to sit out a full season.

That was post you responded was booked by the HotSportzTake police on charges indecent over-exaggeration.

The thought we would let our program HC be dictated by a few players on a team has struggled mightily is baffling. I am sure Ryan Nassib, Justin Pugh, Delone Carter, Marcus Sales, Arthur Jones, Chandler Jones threats were should have been considered as well.

SS is probably getting another year unless Thamel has legit information but I don't care if the entire team threatens to transfer unless the NCAA rules regarding transfers have changed to where the school doesn't have to grant a release let them bluff all day long.

 

[Alsacs]

Pathetic. If you think 2013 was better than 2010, you really are blinded. 2010 brought this program back from the dead. We were the worst BCS team in America two years prior. That season was 1,000 times more fun and exciting than 2013, we laid some eggs at home but the length some will go here to back is mid blowing. Wvu, USF, Rutgers, Cincinnati were all quality wins. My god.

I am done responding to him after yesterday's people must have wanted Marrone fired after year 3 post.
I am not going to dignify him anymore responses.
2010 was a better year because the program had been 14-45 in the previous 5 years and had no success. To defend SS putting down 2010 is just flat out wrong.

The program Doug Marrone inherited and the program Scott Shafer where completely different but that doesn't matter. If we are going to count almost wins like last Saturday I guess Doug should get credit for his first game against Minnesota in 2009 that went to OT and on the first play of the game we gave MN a TD. Might as well.

 

[jekelish]

That was post you responded was booked by the HotSportzTake police on charges indecent over-exaggeration.

The thought we would let our program HC be dictated by a few players on a team has struggled mightily is baffling. I am sure Ryan Nassib, Justin Pugh, Delone Carter, Marcus Sales, Arthur Jones, Chandler Jones threats were considered as well.

SS is probably getting another year unless Thamel has legit information but I don't care if the entire team threatens to transfer unless the NCAA rules regarding transfers have changed to where the school doesn't have to grant a release let them bluff all day long.

For god's sake, I never said it should be dictated SOLELY by this. Just that it should absolutely be one factor taken into consideration.

But I guess people are going to pick and choose things to fit what they want.

 

[TheCusian]

Pathetic. If you think 2013 was better than 2010, you really are blinded. 2010 brought this program back from the dead. We were the worst BCS team in America two years prior. That season was 1,000 times more fun and exciting than 2013, we laid some eggs at home but the length some will go here to back is mid blowing. Wvu, USF, Rutgers, Cincinnati were all quality wins. My god.

I'm not arguing which was more fun as a fan or importance after Greg Robinson. It was all of those things.

I'm saying which was more impressive?

Beating up on the 100+ ranked SOS, two FCS schools with a pretty bad offense?
Winning with an entirely new offensive staff save a WR coach, a first time HC, a new defensive staff, a first time QB, in a brand new conference, vs the 46th ranked SOS?

Both teams beat a P5 team in their bowl games in the 4th Q. Both teams featured a far better defense than offense.

I might walk back "better" to "similar" ... But I think Marrone gets too much credit for 2010 and Shafer too little for 2013 (and maybe not enough for a defense that carried the 2010 team too )

 

[Alsacs]

For god's sake, I never said it should be dictated SOLELY by this. Just that it should absolutely be one factor taken into consideration.

But I guess people are going to pick and choose things to fit what they want.

It should be zero part of the consideration. Players in college don't get paid they are going to 99% of time support the person who recruited them.

 

[jekelish]

It should be zero part of the consideration. Players in college don't get paid they are going to 99% of time support the person who recruited them.

So the student-athletes should be taken completely out of the equation? That's absolutely absurd. What the hell is the point of college athletics if we're deciding the athletes and their thoughts don't actually matter?

 

[vitaminC]

I am honestly blown away that people think HCSS should be fired. This coach is still working with kids from The Big East. People need to give this guy time to build his team. Let him get all the players he wants. I personally feel the entire vibe this year is different from years past. There is more energy and the guys we have are only getting better, older and wiser. We have played some huge teams, yes we lost but we played a helluva game. You complain about the O-Line but we are playing guys again from the Big East. That is not Joe Adams fault. So why the hell should they get a new coach. In the next two years the guys we brought in are going to be able to go head to head with the biggest BCS teams. Looking at the freshman that got in there Hicks is working with them and they have gained good weight and are looking huge. We live in an instant society you people who are complaining need to let the system work. We can't produce a national championship team over night. I see a ton of positives this year. Heck yes I would of liked to have a few more wins under our belts. Everyone needs to relax and enjoy the ride Shafer is taking us on. The fun hasn't even started yet. The team he is building is going places. You people were shocked at how awesome Dungey was, he was totally under recruited. We have smart coaches let them do their job without all the nae sayers.

 

[Alsacs]

So the student-athletes should be taken completely out of the equation? That's absolutely absurd. What the hell is the point of college athletics if we're deciding the athletes and their thoughts don't actually matter?

Wait a minute we are going to let the players decide if the school should retain a coach. Also we are going to be talking about a program which wouldn't have made postseason play when 80/120 FBS TEAMS(67%) qualify.
How about you let the adults make the decisions and then get players input on a committee to find the next coach.

Any kid who wouldn't their current coach retained would have an obvious axe to grind. Sorry I don't care what they would want when its obvious.

 

[jekelish]

Wait a minute we are going to let the players decide if the school should retain a coach. Also we are going to be talking about a program which wouldn't have made postseason play when 80/120 FBS TEAMS(67%) qualify.
How about you let the adults make the decisions and then get players input on a committee to find the next coach.

Any kid who wouldn't their current coach retained would have an obvious axe to grind. Sorry I don't care what they would want when its obvious.

I did not say that we're letting the players decide. Good god. But they should ABSOLUTELY have their opinions heard. How the hell can you NOT have them be part of the conversation?

 

[Bayside44]

Kids can dictate their coaches like they can dictate their professors.

End of the day they commit to the school. A teenager doesn't have sway over a seven figure salary. Not at this level anyway.

 

[jekelish]

Kids can dictate their coaches like they can dictate their professors.

End of the day they commit to the school. A teenager doesn't have sway over a seven figure salary. Not at this level anyway.

FFS. No one is saying they should dictate who the coach is. But it's absolutely INSANE to suggest they shouldn't be allowed to have their opinion heard.

 

[Alsacs]

I am honestly blown away that people think HCSS should be fired. This coach is still working with kids from The Big East. People need to give this guy time to build his team. Let him get all the players he wants. I personally feel the entire vibe this year is different from years past. There is more energy and the guys we have are only getting better, older and wiser. We have played some huge teams, yes we lost but we played a helluva game. You complain about the O-Line but we are playing guys again from the Big East. That is not Joe Adams fault. So why the hell should they get a new coach. In the next two years the guys we brought in are going to be able to go head to head with the biggest BCS teams. Looking at the freshman that got in there Hicks is working with them and they have gained good weight and are looking huge. We live in an instant society you people who are complaining need to let the system work. We can't produce a national championship team over night. I see a ton of positives this year. Heck yes I would of liked to have a few more wins under our belts. Everyone needs to relax and enjoy the ride Shafer is taking us on. The fun hasn't even started yet. The team he is building is going places. You people were shocked at how awesome Dungey was, he was totally under recruited. We have smart coaches let them do their job without all the nae sayers.

That 2013 OL was made up of all BE recruits and did pretty damn good.
Trudo, Foy are not bums and have regressed under Adam. Adam has never coached OL a damn day in college coaching career before he got the SU OL JOB.
Our OL has talent the coaching has been poor there. Who is to blame? Doug Marrone?

 

[Bayside44]

FFS. No one is saying they should dictate who the coach is. But it's absolutely INSANE to suggest they shouldn't be allowed to have their opinion heard.

Unless the coach is abusive or something like that it seems pointless. They're kids and this is big business.

I'd prefer he stays but people get fired, it's just a part of life.

And I get the whole hypocrisy of it too.

 

[TheCusian]

I am done responding to him after yesterday's people must have wanted Marrone fired after year 3 post. I am not going to dignify him anymore responses. 2010 was a better year because the program had been 14-45 in the previous 5 years and had no success. To defend SS putting down 2010 is just flat out wrong. The program Doug Marrone inherited and the program Scott Shafer where completely different but that doesn't matter. If we are going to count almost wins like last Saturday I guess Doug should get credit for his first game against Minnesota in 2009 that went to OT and on the first play of the game we gave MN a TD. Might as well.

Yeah. Turns out you are grumpy about something I never said.

But while we are at it. I joined this board in 2012 to defend Marrone after the Rutgers loss. Because? People were talking about Marrone being fired or wondering if we'd ever be good if we couldn't be good with a senior QB.

We'd had a game we gave away to Northwestern and lost by a point, a game we looked good in one half vs USC before getting blown out, a closer than we'd like game against Stony Brook, a loss at Minnesota that we gave away (any of these results sounding familiar?), a one point win at home vs a mediocre Pitt team, and a pretty bad loss to Rutgers.

2-4. One win vs a FBS team. After dropping 5 straight to finish 2011. People were calling for his head. And I joined the board to defend him.

Doug gets credit from going from historically bad to mediocre. Shafer gets dinged for a bad hire and injuries in 2014.

2012 and 2015 are similar years after the first 7 games no?

2012: 3 wins. 1 FCS w, 2 wins vs mediocre conference members, and a bunch of respectable losses
2015: 3 wins. 1 FCS w, 1 win vs mediocre/bad conference team, 1 win vs a mediocre MAC team, and a bunch of losses

(And for the record, yeah - when evaluating someone's performance a close loss counts for more than a blow out. So 2009 vs Minny would get my vote as an encouraging game despite the loss. I'd bet people here hated the loss but were encouraged compared to year before.)