Are we really this bad?

[SUbear]

Greg Robinson was 5-18 after two years. Scott Shafer will be at least 10-15 against a more difficult schedule. I don't see the comparison. This team would beat any of G-Rob's teams easily.

Time will tell but he inherited a team that was on an uptick, but this year is definitely now on a down tick, if he wins one more game this year I will readjust my opinion, but I do not see it happening. I hope I am wrong, as I said before.

 

[SUbear]

How about the fact that we were blown out multiple times just one season ago, and have been in every single game this season. That is empirical proof.

Yes it is, but that is all on the efforts of the defense which I have already acknowledged as carrying this team and keeping us competitive. The offense on the other hand has been less than good.

 

[SUbear]

Comparing SS to Gerg just disqualified you from any discussion moving fwd.

We will see by the end of the season and thereafter if that is true, but I did not compare him to Gerg, I believe I pointed out we could not afford another such episode, but perhaps I stated that poorly. I said those things I mentioned as defenses for Shafer were also used to defend Gerg and his performance as a coach(and they were) which is not the same as comparing him to Gerg. The defenses of his coaching are the same though as I originally said.
Oh by the way I do not care what you think disqualifies my opinions, they are my opinions. I have read several of yours that I did not think much of either. I bet you do not care what I think. Live with it or better yet ignore me.

 

[SUbear]

Nope. Injuries are one of the major reasons we lost vs NC State. Starting a freshman QB and questionable playcalling and coaching are the other reasons.

Simple question: with the starting 5 olinemen playing, do you believe we beat NC State?

They are not a good team.

Okay, let's play the what if game. If Hunt was not hurt we probably get by NC State, if the Oline is all healthy maybe we get by NC State, if AJ does not throw a bad interception we beat NC State going away, if our coaching staff gives Ameen Moore more run we probably beat NCAA State, and as many more ifs as you can think of.

We lost to an, as you said, bad NC State team, end of story.

 

[SUbear]

Greg Robinson was 5-18 after two years. Scott Shafer will be at least 10-15 against a more difficult schedule. I don't see the comparison. This team would beat any of G-Rob's teams easily.

This team beats any Gerg team easily, I am not sure how one comes to that conclusion but okay. I give you that one.

Okay bad vs badder. Yea you're right this is acceptable for SU football.

I do not necessarily think Shafer can not be a decent head coach, but he is not getting it done now, and that is really all I care about.

SU can not afford more poor football seasons after the hole they have put themselves in. Attendance and recruiting can not take further hits or this program goes from moribund to dead.

I have had football season tickets since 1975 and bought individual tickets before that for every game since 1965. I watched my first game when Jim Brown was on the field. I have some skin in this game, gone through some highs and lows. I will never accept this as being okay for SU football, if it ever is acceptable I am done, and done as a fan of SU football. I do not expect them to win every game, that would be foolish, but a slightly above .500 would be desirable.
So you believe 3-9 is okay this year, because that is what I see coming down the pike. We all have our own standards, yours appear lower than what I desire.

 

[TheCusian]

We will see by the end of the season and thereafter if that is true, but I did not compare him to Gerg, I believe I pointed out we could not afford another such episode, but perhaps I stated that poorly. I said those things I mentioned as defenses for Shafer were also used to defend Gerg and his performance as a coach(and they were) which is not the same as comparing him to Gerg. The defenses of his coaching are the same though as I originally said. Oh by the way I do not care what you think disqualifies my opinions, they are my opinions. I have read several of yours that I did not think much of either. I bet you do not care what I think. Live with it or better yet ignore me.

The reasons and defenses used are the same, and you came to same conclusion "that we are not a well coached team" - but you're not comparing them. Okay.

Logic is faulty anyways.

Reasons to keep Gerg as coach + not well coached x 4 losing seasons = bad coach who was fired
Reasons to keep Shafer + ____________ x 1 possible losing season = ?

It's your opinion I was disagreeing with, so much so that I said that it disqualified you. Clearly it was to show how much. You can share whatever you like obviously. For what it's worth I'm sorry. Didn't mean to offend.

 

[TheCusian]

This team beats any Gerg team easily, I am not sure how one comes to that conclusion but okay. I give you that one. Okay bad vs badder. Yea you're right this is acceptable for SU football. I do not necessarily think Shafer can not be a decent head coach, but he is not getting it done now, and that is really all I care about. SU can not afford more poor football seasons after the hole they have put themselves in. Attendance and recruiting can not take further hits or this program goes from moribund to dead. I have had football season tickets since 1975 and bought individual tickets before that for every game since 1965. I watched my first game when Jim Brown was on the field. I have some skin in this game, gone through some highs and lows. I will never accept this as being okay for SU football, if it ever is acceptable I am done, and done as a fan of SU football. I do not expect them to win every game, that would be foolish, but a slightly above .500 would be desirable. So you believe 3-9 is okay this year, because that is what I see coming down the pike. We all have our own standards, yours appear lower than what I desire.

I get that. I don't see a bunch of happy people around here.

And we still have a chance to finish slightly ahead of .500 by my count .

 

[CuseOnly]

unless your coach stinks and you hire someone way better. that will help recruiting.

Good thought...ummm but we tried to get someone way better, they don't want the job for what SU is willing to pay. Saying it is nice and all but the University won't pony up the dollars.

So just stop with the "we can use the ACC money to get someone way better". Not going to happen.

 

[Crusty]

So, you are a veteran trader at a second-tier Wall Street dealer. Your boss jumps to a job with Goldman and takes all the senior traders and a few of the best salespeople with him. Just for good measure he also takes a couple of the best quants and analysts.

The division boss promotes you months before bonuses are paid with no budget to do buy outs to match bonuses new hires will lose if they jump firms at this point. Your salary and bonus structure is at the bottom of your peer group.

Your MBA class is about to implode and go elsewhere.

All your friends warn you the job is a loser and mission impossible but you always wanted to run a trading department.

What do you do? You take the challenge because you may not get another chance.

Since you are a veteran of 20 years you call traders you have worked with in the past and whom you respect. Some jump at the chance to work with you but others have good jobs and are not going to make a lateral move. So you give one the job of head risk manager, which he/she has never done before but was the dream job.

Oh yes, your boss informs you that he wants to ramp up risk positions to try and get into a higher underwriting bracket.

You take your cobbled together unit and in the first year manage to do pretty well. Moral in your you group is pretty high and things are looking as if you might pull off this miracle.

Then it happens. You hold a big party to reward your group and everyone gorges on bad shellfish and a third of the senior staff come down with hepatitis. By the time they are able to recover and come back to work a volatile market has overwhelmed the second string and the year's profits are blown. No bonuses and the entire operation is up for grabs.

Everyone wants your butt. Its not fair, but this is Wall Street and what have you done lately?

Scott Shafer calls you and says. "Let me buy you a drink my friend."

 

[CuseOnly]

So, you are a veteran trader at a second-tier Wall Street dealer. Your boss jumps to a job with Goldman and takes all the senior traders and a few of the best salespeople with him. Just for good measure he also takes a couple of the best quants and analysts.

The division boss promotes you months before bonuses are paid with no budget to do buy outs to match bonuses new hires will lose if they jump firms at this point. Your salary and bonus structure is at the bottom of your peer group.

Your MBA class is about to implode and go elsewhere.

All your friends warn you the job is a loser and mission impossible but you always wanted to run a trading department.

What do you do? You take the challenge because you may not get another chance.

Since you are a veteran of 20 years you call traders you have worked with in the past and whom you respect. Some jump at the chance to work with you but others have good jobs and are not going to make a lateral move. So you give one the job of head risk manager, which he/she has never done before but was the dream job.

Oh yes, your boss informs you that he wants to ramp up risk positions to try and get into a higher underwriting bracket.

You take your cobbled together unit and in the first year manage to do pretty well. Moral in your you group is pretty high and things are looking as if you might pull off this miracle.

Then it happens. You hold a big party to reward your group and everyone gorges on bad shellfish and a third of the senior staff come down with hepatitis. By the time they are able to recover and come back to work a volatile market has overwhelmed the second string and the year's profits are blown. No bonuses and the entire operation is up for grabs.

Everyone wants your butt. Its not fair, but this is Wall Street and what have you done lately?

Scott Shafer calls you and says. "Let me buy you a drink my friend."

Didn't Mrs. Crusty ban you from the board?? Ban over I assume or are you still checking and posting as you sit on the throne from your cel?

In any case, great analogy.

 

[Crusty]

Didn't Mrs. Crusty ban you from the board?? Ban over I assume or are you still checking and posting as you sit on the throne from your cel?

In any case, great analogy.

Don't pay the ransom - I have escaped!
Did my beach therapy and am home again. If I don't behave it's off to the shore again!

 

[CuseOnly]

Don't pay the ransom - I have escaped!
Did my beach therapy and am home again. If I don't behave it's off to the shore again!

LOL, some punishment. I would take that punishment any day my friend.

I didn't mean cel as in Cel Block, I meant cel phone...but either works equally well in this case. Haha!

 

[SUbear]

The reasons and defenses used are the same, and you came to same conclusion "that we are not a well coached team" - but you're not comparing them. Okay.

Logic is faulty anyways.

Reasons to keep Gerg as coach + not well coached x 4 losing seasons = bad coach who was fired
Reasons to keep Shafer + ____________ x 1 possible losing season = ?

It's your opinion I was disagreeing with, so much so that I said that it disqualified you. Clearly it was to show how much. You can share whatever you like obviously. For what it's worth I'm sorry. Didn't mean to offend.

That made no sense whatsoever, but whatever.

 

[CU44SE]

How about the fact that we were blown out multiple times just one season ago, and have been in every single game this season. That is empirical proof.

Define close, because I don't see multiple TD games close. Already been over this countless times in another thread. We're not playing any dominant teams like we played last year

 

[CU44SE]

Nope. Injuries are one of the major reasons we lost vs NC State. Starting a freshman QB and questionable playcalling and coaching are the other reasons.

Simple question: with the starting 5 olinemen playing, do you believe we beat NC State?

They are not a good team.

And for Maryland? Whats that excuse?

 

[TheCusian]

And for Maryland? Whats that excuse?

Huh? Maryland?

We gave up too many big plays and couldn't score in the red zone.

There are two things that people point to in a loss:

1. Things we control (coaching, play-calling, lack of talent, poor execution)
2. Things we don't control (injuries, refs, playing teams off of bye weeks, no bye in 9 weeks, the other team gets lucky, we get unlucky, etc)

They call #2 "excuses".

They also believe that enough of #1 can always overcome #2. Which is BS.

They also believe that by stating #2, that you're letting the coaches and players off the hook. Which is also BS.

---

That's all to say: the Maryland game was lost to a bunch of #1. The NC State game was the reverse.

 

[TheCusian]

That made no sense whatsoever, but whatever.

You're trying to draw conclusions from how we "defended" or made excuses during Gergs tenure and apply them to Shafer. But the best that logic gets us to is "incomplete"...

Just because the excuses are the same, doesn't mean that the conclusion will be the same. Shafer deserves to not be treated like Gerg or even referenced at this point.

 

[Millhouse]

Good thought...ummm but we tried to get someone way better, they don't want the job for what SU is willing to pay. Saying it is nice and all but the University won't pony up the dollars. So just stop with the "we can use the ACC money to get someone way better". Not going to happen.

Did I say that?

 

[SUbear]

You're trying to draw conclusions from how we "defended" or made excuses during Gergs tenure and apply them to Shafer. But the best that logic gets us to is "incomplete"...

Just because the excuses are the same, doesn't mean that the conclusion will be the same. Shafer deserves to not be treated like Gerg or even referenced at this point.

Talk to me after we are 3-9, and again the laughing stock of D1 football. Then tell me how we get out of another debacle for our football program, which is struggling to get attendance already, and next year will not draw flies.
I will again state that if this edition can win one more game I will never mention coaching again. I frankly pray that they do, because as I have said before the alternative is extremely unattractive.
However if they go 3-9, tell me again how this does not resemble Gerg.

 

[SWC75]

Talk to me after we are 3-9, and again the laughing stock of D1 football. Then tell me how we get out of another debacle for our football program, which is struggling to get attendance already, and next year will not draw flies.
I will again state that if this edition can win one more game I will never mention coaching again. I frankly pray that they do, because as I have said before the alternative is extremely unattractive.
However if they go 3-9, tell me again how this does not resemble Gerg.

No need to wait: 'Gerg' never went 7-6.

 

[SUbear]

No need to wait: 'Gerg' never went 7-6.[/

Not a comparison of records here, a comparison of the state of the program and the damage that will be done to attendance, recruiting, and perception of our program, if we go 3-9. I think waiting to see if that happens is relevant to that comparison.
You appear to be really proud of Shafer's record last year, too bad it was mostly a carry over from Marrone's tenure.

 

[phil77]

My only thing is when people say Shafer will get one more year or deserves one more year...What have you seen that shows he is a good head football coach and needs to be given one more year to prove it? People point to how he has handled the McDonald situation and how he removed him quickly. Well 2 things 1- He hired McDonald in the first place. 2- Lester is proving to be no better and just gave him another year. So what have you seen that makes you think Shafer is a good head coach and capable of turning things around?

 

[SWC75]

Not a comparison of records here, a comparison of the state of the program and the damage that will be done to attendance, recruiting, and perception of our program, if we go 3-9. I think waiting to see if that happens is relevant to that comparison.
You appear to be really proud of Shafer's record last year, too bad it was mostly a carry over from Marrone's tenure.

So is this team, plus Shafer recruits that have become some of the best players on the team: Long, Ismael, Phillips, Franklin, etc.

 

[SUbear]

So is this team, plus Shafer recruits that have become some of the best players on the team: Long, Ismael, Phillips, Franklin, etc.

Keep reaching.

 

[TheCusian]

Talk to me after we are 3-9, and again the laughing stock of D1 football. Then tell me how we get out of another debacle for our football program, which is struggling to get attendance already, and next year will not draw flies. I will again state that if this edition can win one more game I will never mention coaching again. I frankly pray that they do, because as I have said before the alternative is extremely unattractive. However if they go 3-9, tell me again how this does not resemble Gerg.

Easy. We went 7-6 the year before. Have a top 40 defense and a top 40 recruiting class. We played the number one team in the country pretty well and was up at Clemson 6-3 at the half with a freshman QB in Death Valley.

We will beat Duke. Get ready to shut the trap.