Are we really this bad?

[AZOrange]

If you feel like someone in your profession wasn't treated fairly by a company , would you want that job? Or would you think that is not a good company to try to work with ? I have got to believe if you asked 10 respected coaches , who reviewed the situation , they would all say to give him more time.

I don't think this is unfair treatment fwiw. I can't be this bad at my job over 2 years.

 

[Chris02M]

I don't think this is unfair treatment fwiw. I can't be this bad at my job over 2 years.

he was pretty good last year getting us to a bowl game

 

[CuseOnly]

I can't imagine a worse use of time than doing background research on you or asking Bees, when I can read what you wrote above. You stated the staff were good to great recruiters- and cited all the three star talent they brought in. Really? Three star talent is what we should aspire to now? We're in a P5 conference now we should be beating out other P5 schools for recruits, the question is which ones. I'll consider our staff "great" recruiters when we beat out FSU, Clemson, VT, ND, PSU and their like for a player. You apparently consider them so every time we get one past Pitt. I'm looking at the product on the field. Let me ask you- do you see any speed at all on our side of the field? I mean really anywhere do you see any? Does anyone scare you if you are an opposing coach? The answer is not really, if we're being honest on both sides of the ball.

Do you really believe that McDonald forgot how to recruit 4/5 star talent after he got here? He was recruiting 4 star talent at Miami, Arkansas and Minnesota as well as Stanford. He was named by Ro Vals as one of the top 25 recruiters in the nation.

Marrone was also named by the SEC as one of the top recruiters in the SEC by his peer coaches during his tenure in that league as an assistant. Shafer is a great recruiter.

These guys didn't forget how to recruit when they got here, the fact that they are great recruiters didn't change when they arrived here at SU.

The problem is not the RECRUITERS it's the school they are recruiting for that makes it difficult. SU has a lot of things to overcome, you know what those things are and I am not going to list them for you.

You act as if these guys aren't going after 4/5 star talent. Believe me, they are...the problem is that they are not landing them. The question here is, do you waste a ton of time recruiting said 4/5 star talent with very little chance of landing them and neglect the kids you have a chance with that can help your program? There is a finite amount of time to recruit, where do you allocate your resources?

Take a look back at our recruiting classes before this staff got here. You will find that half of our classes before were made up of mostly 2/3 star talent. During this staff's tenure it is all 3 star talent with a couple 2's and a couple 4's. That is improvement, now they have to shoot for all 3/4 star talent which will take time and wins.

 

[CuseOnly]

2 years is enough time to know something is missing. Even with marrone there was hope. There's no reason why Robinson/shafer deserve more time. They're good coaches but bad head coaches. There's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, there was hope...right up until he went 5-7 in his 3rd year.

 

[SWC75]

I don't think this is unfair treatment fwiw. I can't be this bad at my job over 2 years.

Does your job resemble that of a football coach in some way?

 

[AZOrange]

Does your job resemble that of a football coach in some way?

I wasn't the one that asked that question and compared it to regular work.

 

[CanadianSU]

I wasn't the one that asked that question and compared it to regular work.

Your relentless.

Give it up. Shafer is going no where and should not be going anywhere.

End of story.

 

[AZOrange]

Yeah, there was hope...right up until he went 5-7 in his 3rd year.

We resembled a competent football team with Doug, although I admit I was unimpressed by his in conf work, he was still as good as we could hope for. Other than maybe a couple of the young guys...this year is so lost. And shafers media personality convinces me he isn't right.

 

[AZOrange]

Your relentless.

Give it up. Shafer is going no where and should not be going anywhere.

End of story.

you just ignore (or are willfully ignorant) of what is actually going on out there. If you want to keep praying to the football gods for wins, so be it. I'd actually like to turn this program around. We can blame injuries or schedules or whatever you like, but in reality the players are not good enough and the coaching is certainly not good enough. Syracuse should be able to stumble backward into a bowl game every year. This year we are going to struggle to 4 wins.

 

[SUbear]

When we look back on the season it will be:

- a really tough schedule vs some of the best D's in the nation with
- no bye week for 8 games,
- starting a freshman in the middle of the season,
- while changing OC's and
- being historically beat up and injured

You can see them as excuses - but if well timed bye weeks, experienced QB's, and staying healthy are things teams point to as reasons for success - we can see the reverse as true here.

Look this team was fundamentally not good before the injuries so now saying injuries are the cause of losing is just plain BS.

 

[Macky44]

I am trying hard not to overreact, but this game has really depressed me. Everyone drops passes. nobody blocks. 39 yards rushing against a lousy defense. The only team worse vs the run in the ACC against conference opponents is Wake. I know we are banged up but still this bad?

We have an 18 year-old 180 pound kid as our hope. Truth is that AJ is really a development project. It seems he has multiple turn overs each game and everything good he does is offset by the bad. Hard not to think the pick 6 wasn't the difference.

I doubt we can win another game this season. That would mean 3-9. Wow.

We won't go bowling and we are gaining a reputation as a doormat of the ACC. We will have a tough time recruiting. Attendance will drop.

What is going to change? Its just getting tough to take. Wow. Somebody cheer me up!

That 180 lb kid was not supposed to play this year. Keep that in mind. We havent had the same O-line for consecutive weeks ONCE this season. Keep that in mind. Our defense has been outstanding, and we have been in every single game this year with the exception of Maryland. We are both unlucky, and inexperienced with who we have on the field. This is hardly a fair model to judge the team by.

 

[SUbear]

Excuses? You don't think those things have had a profound impact on our season?[/QUO

When and where exactly did you see this team playing well before the injuries, I certainly did not, so now using injuries as an excuse for poor performance is just an excuse that does not explain there overall poor performance. Yes they are banged up but they have played and executed poorly from the start of the season, therefore that excuse does not hold water for this teams overall performance. All teams have injuries in football, even some of those who have beaten us were banged up.
This team is not coached well, and that is a large part of our problem.

 

[SWC75]

This reminds me of the basketball arguments in the late 2000's when we had a couple of season where multiple players were out or hobbled for extended periods, (Scoop Jardine played with a stress fracture he told no one about because we were down to 6 scholarship player, and we went 24-11 and then 21-14. People, especially Blue Curtain, wanted Boeheim fired and considered injuries an "excuse" as if they were somehow irrelevant. "You're supposed to have depth."

Starters star because they are better than reserves. The reserves are either not as good or not as experienced or physically strong because they haven't been here as long. If you can't play starters, you aren't going to be as good. And in a sport that requires as much co-ordination as football, a kaleidoscopic line-up makes a team much less efficient. Also, the reserves, especially guys who might otherwise be red-shirting, don't get the reps in practice. if they are suddenly thrust into games, the learning curve is going to awfully high. And when guys who were supposed to star push themselves in there with injuries, they are obviously not going to be as good, either.

But if your agenda is to get the coach fired, why pay attention to any of that?

 

[SUbear]

Shafer and Lester didn't throw an 87 yard pick 6 that ultimately cost us the game. I see a lot of good in AJ but he's going to make those kind of mistakes while he's learning. If he holds that ball for .2 seconds longer it's a probable completion. We at least get 3 there and keep NC State from getting 7. Are we having this conversation if we win 20-16?

The talent is fine and so is the coaching from a Coordinator standpoint. As far as position coaches I'm not sure. Lot of youth on the field in the wake of numerous injuries.

And that is what everyone said initially about gerg, give him more time, he does not have the talent, hes a great guy, its his position coaches. The head coach is responsible for everything. If things are wrong or not what they should be, guess what, he is responsible. You are wearing your Orange colored blinders. This team is not well coached.

 

[SUbear]

This reminds me of the basketball arguments in the late 2000's when we had a couple of season where multiple players were out or hobbled for extended periods, (Scoop Jardine played with a stress fracture he told no one about because we were down to 6 scholarship player, and we went 24-11 and then 21-14. People, especially Blue Curtain, wanted Boeheim fired and considered injuries an "excuse" as if they were somehow irrelevant. "You're supposed to have depth."

Starters star because they are better than reserves. The reserves are either not as good or not as experienced or physically strong because they haven't been here as long. If you can't play starters, you aren't going to be as good. And in a sport that requires as much co-ordination as football, a kaleidoscopic line-up makes a team much less efficient. Also, the reserves, especially guys who might otherwise be red-shirting, don't get the reps in practice. if they are suddenly thrust into games, the learning curve is going to awfully high. And when guys who were supposed to star push themselves in there with injuries, they are obviously not going to be as good, either.

But if your agenda is to get the coach fired, why pay attention to any of that?

I do not want anyone fired, what I want is a football team that does not play like it is without a clue how to play. A team that actually executes blocking, tackling and the fundamentals of football. This team has been poor at fundamentals, mostly on offense from the get go. I want a team that does not become the laughing stock of D1 for the second time in a decade. If they can somehow win one more game I will not say another word about their coaching, but I do not see that happening, as they say in the stock market past performance is not an indicator, but by gosh I sure as heck take it into consideration before I buy.

 

[Millhouse]

And that is what everyone said initially about gerg, give him more time, he does not have the talent, hes a great guy, its his position coaches. The head coach is responsible for everything. If things are wrong or not what they should be, guess what, he is responsible. You are wearing your Orange colored blinders. This team is not well coached.

gerg did get fired. i don't have any problem with firing shafer today. whatever. i don't think he's any good. i expect he'll get fired eventually. but the difference between 2 and 4 years is nothing

 

[Finwad32]

And that is what everyone said initially about gerg, give him more time, he does not have the talent, hes a great guy, its his position coaches. The head coach is responsible for everything. If things are wrong or not what they should be, guess what, he is responsible. You are wearing your Orange colored blinders. This team is not well coached.

Thanks for analyzing and making comparisons that have no relevance to my opinion.

HCSS already recognized things weren't functioning properly and tried to make an adjustment. What he does next in regards to the offense remains to be seen. Defense is fine.

Orange colored blinders have nothing to do with my opinion, but, thanks for the analysis.

 

[SWC75]

Greg Robinson was 5-18 after two years. Scott Shafer will be at least 10-15 against a more difficult schedule. I don't see the comparison. This team would beat any of G-Rob's teams easily.

 

[Orangello]

Greg Robinson was 5-18 after two years. Scott Shafer will be at least 10-15 against a more difficult schedule. I don't see the comparison. This team would beat any of G-Rob's teams easily.

St. Mary's School for the Blind and Prairie View A&M would have routinely beaten any of Gump's teams. That's not what we should be aspiring to and it certainly doesn't make me feel any better.

 

[Killdozer]

Firing a head coach will do nothing for recruiting but hurt it. If you are just going to complain all the time then Penn State would love to have more fans. Every head coach deserves at least four years with his players.

 

[Millhouse]

Firing a head coach will do nothing for recruiting but hurt it. If you are just going to complain all the time then Penn State would love to have more fans. Every head coach deserves at least four years with his players.

unless your coach stinks and you hire someone way better. that will help recruiting.

 

[TheCusian]

Look this team was fundamentally not good before the injuries so now saying injuries are the cause of losing is just plain BS.

Nope. Injuries are one of the major reasons we lost vs NC State. Starting a freshman QB and questionable playcalling and coaching are the other reasons.

Simple question: with the starting 5 olinemen playing, do you believe we beat NC State?

They are not a good team.

 

[TheCusian]

And that is what everyone said initially about gerg, give him more time, he does not have the talent, hes a great guy, its his position coaches. The head coach is responsible for everything. If things are wrong or not what they should be, guess what, he is responsible. You are wearing your Orange colored blinders. This team is not well coached.

Comparing SS to Gerg just disqualified you from any discussion moving fwd.

 

[Noexcuse]

ya that's great and all, but most of those were under a whole other coaching staff. how about you give it another try now?

Have to say the jury is still out then, because, you know, he's only had 2 recruiting classes, one of which was a throw together/hold together class after Marrone split.

 

[Macky44]

I do not. Where is the empirical proof of that? certainly not in wins, and certainly not in offensive production( I. E. Scoring).
I hope you are correct though, because I want you to be correct. The alternative is not attractive.

How about the fact that we were blown out multiple times just one season ago, and have been in every single game this season. That is empirical proof.