Buffalo Bills 2021 Thread

[JustPherU]

I still fail to see any downside whatsoever. It's not like he's going to nub it and it's kneeled down at the 40. Drill that thing on the ground inside the 30 and possibly inside the 20 and if they just want to fall on it there then so be it.

You’re assuming that when the kicker drills it nobody is going to catch it until ball gets that far.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I still fail to see any downside whatsoever. It's not like he's going to nub it and it's kneeled down at the 40. Drill that thing on the ground inside the 30 and possibly inside the 20 and if they just want to fall on it there then so be it.

We had to do everything we could to blow it, and we did.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

There isn't really an upside to it either. Probably more likely for it to be scooped up at the 30+ than the 20 or less. If you want to argue he should have pooched it to like the 10 yard line, I think that's much more justifiable. If you pooch it, they either call fair catch and have awful starting position, return it and cost themselves time, or let it bounce and hope it goes into the end zone for a touchback (which it probably would).

Pooch would have been the right call IMO. Not much downside other than a BIG return but that would have taken time off clock I guess. Anytime without Mahomes out there would have been great

 

[JeremyCuse]

If you don't like the squib, kick it short and force KC to call a fair catch, no time comes off but now the ball is at the 10 or so yard line most likely, whole different scenario. Perhaps the squib doesn't work but at least there's a chance somebody muffs it or something happens to draw down a few seconds versus what actually happened which was a disaster.

 

[Melancer46]

Pooch would have been the right call IMO. Not much downside other than a BIG return but that would have taken time off clock I guess. Anytime without Mahomes out there would have been great

Yeah, I think a pooch improves your odds of them getting stuck with worse field position and or less time. Honestly it shouldn't have mattered. The defense was gifted a relatively easy situation there and just completely choked.

 

[chugg21]

You’re assuming that when the kicker drills it nobody is going to catch it until ball gets that far.

Sure am. If one of the upbacks wants to take a shot at handling a hot potato, by all means go for it. I just think a squib kick in that situation is football 101. Seems to be what the majority of the sporting world subscribes to as well whether or not that is usually a good thing or not.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yeah, I think a pooch improves your odds of them getting stuck with worse field position and or less time. Honestly it shouldn't have mattered. The defense was gifted a relatively easy situation there and just completely choked.

It was a pure choke job by all. When something like that happens it's coaching and it's players choking too. It was a just a complete meltdown, they pretty much did nothing other than prevent a TD with 13 seconds left and tried to get away with it. The worst but it does happen. I mean KC's secondary was HORRENDOUS the last 2 drives as well. Really bad

KC would have needed a miracle as well to keep the Bills out of the end zone in OT as well

 

[JeremyCuse]

It was a pure choke job by all. When something like that happens it's coaching and it's players choking too. It was a just a complete meltdown, they pretty much did nothing and tried to get away with it. The worst but it does happen. I mean KC's secondary was HORRENDOUS the last 2 drives as well. Really bad

100% agreed, I just feel that if you flip the teams there's no way Reid kicks it deep and sits back rushing 4 there.

 

[JustPherU]

Sure am. If one of the upbacks wants to take a shot at handling a hot potato, by all means go for it. I just think a squib kick in that situation is football 101. Seems to be what the majority of the sporting world subscribes to as well whether or not that is usually a good thing or not.

We all know how game ended obviously, but if you want to look at it beforehand there is no way I’m risking giving Mahomes the ball at maybe the 40 yard line because I line drive a kick and some guy snags it and falls down.It’s inexcusable that the Bills defense just let the Chiefs run free down the field for two 20 yard plays.Odds of getting in fg range in 13 seconds have to go up drastically when you are starting at the 40 rather than the 25.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

100% agreed, I just feel that if you flip the teams there's no way Reid kicks it deep and sits back rushing 4 there.

Yeah, they just did nothing but kind of hope that the clock would run out and play super soft prevent and get beat on pass routes to boot. That's where I blame players too. On the 2nd play once Kelce went past him he should have JUMPED On his back and prayed for a hold!

 

[JeremyCuse]

Yeah, they just did nothing but kind of hope that the clock would run out and play super soft prevent and get beat on pass routes to boot. That's where I blame players too. On the 2nd play once Kelce went past him he should have JUMPED On his back and prayed for a hold!

Again agreed 100%, even if your playing off you know there trying to get into position for a FG, how do you leave Kelce or Hill uncovered, defies logic. Hell at that point Rush 1 and put the entire team in coverage do something different.

 

[Toga]

On the kickoff - a pooch kick they can fair catch. Maybe a second comes off. A line drive end over end bouncer down the middle, someone has to pick up so the kicking team doesn't recover. Even if they give themselves up (assuming they have their wits about them), that's a few seconds. But yes, playing 20 yards off the ball and not covering the middle when KC has TOs (and Hill) is inexcusable.

 

[Melancer46]

On the kickoff - a pooch kick they can fair catch. Maybe a second comes off. A line drive end over end bouncer down the middle, someone has to pick up so the kicking team doesn't recover. Even if they give themselves up (assuming they have their wits about them), that's a few seconds. But yes, playing 20 yards off the ball and not covering the middle when KC has TOs (and Hill) is inexcusable.

That just isn't true. The only way a few seconds would tick off is if they fumbled it or something. In that situation, they likely just field the ball from their knees or dive on it and 0-1 seconds come off the clock.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Wanted to share some thoughts

-That was the best NFL game I've seen probably in my entire life. It's a damn shame somebody had to lose that game and unfortunate it was us.
-The OT rules should be changed, and I think they will now.
-Allen can go toe to toe with Mahomes and every QB in the league. What a performance.
-Sounded like McDermott wanted Bass to have that last kickoff be returned, instead he booted it. I think a squib kick is logical but I see it being a little more risky.
-No idea what the reasoning was for the last defensive series. I've defended Frazier in the past but that was bad
-Disappointed to see Singletary not have a good game, though he was still more reliable than last year.
-No idea what happened with Diggs or Knox. Have to rewatch the game but at least Davis took advantage with all of the coverage attention on those guys.
-I'm not sure you can give Edmunds a contract extension after that game.
-Really missed Tre last night especially with Hill going off, actually thought the defense did ok on Kelce until the end. It was always going to be tough to make a run without him.

For offseason wishlist, I hope they can add some speed and YAC ability on offense. Seeing Mahomes get a lot of yards from his WRs after the catch while Allen can't doesn't feel right. We have guys that are great route runners but aren't really explosive. Also need to continue to solidify the offensive line. For defense I hope they can find another corner, ideally one that has speed, and an edge rusher but I think they just need to develop the talent they have and bring a few new ideas for how to counter the Chiefs.

I think we're right there with the Chiefs, just disappointing that the season is over.

 

[Orangeman]

I know it's unethical, but why not put like 13 players out on Defense for the first play with 13 seconds left?

It's only 5 yards, or can the Refs throw some like Unsportsmanlike thing on that?

 

[Melancer46]

I know it's unethical, but why not put like 13 players out on Defense for the first play with 13 seconds left?

It's only 5 yards, or can the Refs throw some like Unsportsmanlike thing on that?

Lots of ways to abuse the rules at the end of the game to force the Chiefs into a Hail Mary situation. I don't think there's any loophole to prevent teams from doing stuff like that.

 

[Alsacs]

I know it's unethical, but why not put like 13 players out on Defense for the first play with 13 seconds left?

It's only 5 yards, or can the Refs throw some like Unsportsmanlike thing on that?

That is legal. It’s actually smart.
It would be a 5 yard penalty.

The just tackling every legal receiver would work as well.
It would kill time and if you tackle them right off the LOS the PI isn’t bad either.

 

[JustPherU]

I know it's unethical, but why not put like 13 players out on Defense for the first play with 13 seconds left?

It's only 5 yards, or can the Refs throw some like Unsportsmanlike thing on that?

Or tackle every eligible receiver after the snap.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

At the end of day, chiefs had a plan with 13 seconds left, executed it to perfection and the Bills did nothing but watch it and allow it to happen, coaches and players. Only would have taken one or the other to step up.

 

[JustPherU]

That is legal. It’s actually smart.
It would be a 5 yard penalty.

The just tackling every legal receiver would work as well.
It would kill time and if you tackle them right off the LOS the PI isn’t bad either.

NFL needs to look into changing that rule in last minute of game. Maybe something like letting the Offense get the time used back on the clock as well as the five yard penalty. Teams are going to start coaching tackling the receivers to prevent what happened yesterday.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

All this talk about the kickoff probably doesn't matter. Kick it near the end zone: they let it bounce and it probably goes into the end zone for a touchback. Squib it, they probably fall on it around the 25 give or take and no time comes off the clock because they gave themselves up immediately. A squib kick is probably more likely to give KC better field position with the same amount of time than we ultimately gave them. The high arcing kick probably would have been the right call; more likely to get the returner to panic and catch it and there's always a chance that if they don't catch it, it doesn't bounce into the end zone. But in all likelihood, 25 yard line with 13 seconds left was pretty much as good as we could realistically manage.

The defense was an atrocity. Just tackle everyone off the snap and you probably win the game on an incomplete hail mary. Mainly focus on protecting the middle of the field to force a more time consuming pass to the outside. Or just play cover 2 man defense (and probably force Hill to get open on a crosser where he at least needs to turn up field instead of just catching it while already going up field). Pretty much anything but what we attempted to do and we win that game.

It sucks, and for all the understandable frustration with Frazier after that, if he leaves, McD will just hire another Frazier. At the end of the day, we're running the defense that McD wants us to run. All Frazier leaving will do for us is likely give us the same defense but more poorly coached.

Thankfully we have time between now and free agency to kinda calm down and more logically think about how to chart our path this offseason, but for me at least, some of the things that I think need to be considered in the very least would be:

• Trading Edmunds (be it for cap relief/picks or for a more high impact player)
• Cutting Beasley/letting Sanders walk for cap relief
• Cutting Morse/Darryl Williams for cap relief
• Diggs extension (both because, duh, and also cap relief)
• Poyer re-structure for cap relief

As far as our in-house free agents go, the ones that I think will be interesting are Wallace, Harrison Phillips, Hughes, and McKenzie. If you asked me a few weeks ago, Phillips and McKenzie would be definite walk-aways for me, but they came on strong down the stretch and I think have made the decision more complicated for us. Wallace and Hughes continue to be solid players but at some point you have to let some guys go as we start to pay Allen a ton of money.

If we let Beasley and Sanders walk this offseason, WR quickly becomes a high-priority spot to address IMO. I'd like to at least gauge the price for Cedrick Wilson and Michael Gallup from Dallas; Wilson has been covered up by their WR corps but he's a good young player that could thrive with more playing time. Gallup has been relatively disappointing/injured the past couple years after kinda bursting onto the scene his sophomore year. Braxton Berrios or Adam Humphries could make sense to fill Beasley's role as well.

Outside of WR, pass rushing help will once again be a high priority and we could use depth pretty much across the board.

Going to have to disagree with you here. Sources that I’ve listened to that really know football (the Athletic podcast dudes .. bill barnwell ) agree that an end zone kick was a terrible move .

While the type of “squib” kick people are thinking about isn’t great either, the deep air ball kick is a very solid choice gear. It’s not a punt. The backspin on this thing means you absolutely have to catch it .. it’s like to bounce forwards not back into the end zone .. and it’s a free ball.. option to catch it at say you’re own 5 or 10 .. and kneel down .. that doesn’t work for the offense .. you have to advance it at least 10-15 yards. That’s at least a precious 3-4 seconds

 

[NineOneSeven]

Will I get over this is the true question. Took off work today.

 

[Melancer46]

Going to have to disagree with you here. Sources that I’ve listened to that really know football (the Athletic podcast dudes .. bill barnwell ) agree that an end zone kick was a terrible move .

While the type of “squib” kick people are thinking about isn’t great either, the deep air ball kick is a very solid choice gear. It’s not a punt. The backspin on this thing means you absolutely have to catch it .. it’s like to bounce forwards not back into the end zone .. and it’s a free ball.. option to catch it at say you’re own 5 or 10 .. and kneel down .. that doesn’t work for the offense .. you have to advance it at least 10-15 yards. That’s at least a precious 3-4 seconds

I think we pretty much agree. Squib kick was not the call there. High arcing kick probably should have been the call (and might have been the call based on McD's comments). The high arcing kick improves your odds of KC burning time or having bad field position moreso than the other two options. I don't think it likely would have made much of a difference but there was at least upside to doing the high arcing kick that doesn't exist for the squib or blasted kick.

But ultimately, it shouldn't have mattered. Defense was put in an easy situation and just blew it. I believe after last night's game, the defense finished the year somewhere in the low to mid 20s in terms of Expected QBR Allowed.

 

[JustPherU]

All the questions on why the Bills didn’t do this or that, why didn’t the Chiefs have have Tyreek Hill on the kickoff return is my question.Had the Bills pooched it to the 10 yard line who else better than Hill to try and break a long one?

 

[longislandcuse]

Wanted to share some thoughts

-That was the best NFL game I've seen probably in my entire life. It's a damn shame somebody had to lose that game and unfortunate it was us.
-The OT rules should be changed, and I think they will now.
-Allen can go toe to toe with Mahomes and every QB in the league. What a performance.
-Sounded like McDermott wanted Bass to have that last kickoff be returned, instead he booted it. I think a squib kick is logical but I see it being a little more risky.
-No idea what the reasoning was for the last defensive series. I've defended Frazier in the past but that was bad
-Disappointed to see Singletary not have a good game, though he was still more reliable than last year.
-No idea what happened with Diggs or Knox. Have to rewatch the game but at least Davis took advantage with all of the coverage attention on those guys.
-I'm not sure you can give Edmunds a contract extension after that game.
-Really missed Tre last night especially with Hill going off, actually thought the defense did ok on Kelce until the end. It was always going to be tough to make a run without him.

For offseason wishlist, I hope they can add some speed and YAC ability on offense. Seeing Mahomes get a lot of yards from his WRs after the catch while Allen can't doesn't feel right. We have guys that are great route runners but aren't really explosive. Also need to continue to solidify the offensive line. For defense I hope they can find another corner, ideally one that has speed, and an edge rusher but I think they just need to develop the talent they have and bring a few new ideas for how to counter the Chiefs.

I think we're right there with the Chiefs, just disappointing that the season is over.

Great post.

I agree with all of it. If we can get off Edmunds contract via trade, (I’m not sure if that’s accurate) we have to. He’s not worth it and we should not re-sign him. Spend on corners and pass rushers. That’s it. KC spent a 1st on Nick Bolton, ok, cool… had about as much of an effect as Edmunds.

Alas, they love Edmunds so this seems to be a guy our fanbase will have to come to terms with.

I’m on board with taking a Corner in the 1st, but that’s about it until the 4th round. 2nd and 3rd round picks should be offense and we desperately need speed for Allen, to your point about Mahomes and his YAC.