Coach for 50 years

[Grbac]

I think the question is what the driving factor is for him staying on. I used to think I had an idea (his sons). Now I truly have no clue.

if it's simply he doesnt think he'll have anything else to do when he retires or whatever, I see no reason he would leave regardless of status of the team

I think he just simply enjoys doing it. Just like someone enjoys fishing or golfing. Except he can’t catch fish anymore but it doesn’t matter to him because he still enjoys going out on the water and throwing a line in.

 

[Brooky03]

I assume you mean if Girard, Edwards, and Torrence all return for 5th years? Or at least the first two?

Because if those two leave and we bring nobody in, I wouldn’t say we’ll be better.

Yes, if Girard and Jesse stay. Symir doesn’t really matter. And I know both staying is far from a given.

I also think if either leave, there will be transfers coming in, at least for Joe. That’s 30+ mpg open at SG on an ACC team. Can’t imagine we wouldn’t get to pick from the cream of the crop there. I’m actually, and oddly, less worried about replacing Jesse. I think we could develop a big man rotation with what we have that wouldn’t be too much of a loss there.

 

[MSOrange]

I think the question is what the driving factor is for him staying on. I used to think I had an idea (his sons). Now I truly have no clue.

if it's simply he doesnt think he'll have anything else to do when he retires or whatever, I see no reason he would leave regardless of status of the team

Just playing armchair psychologist, I think it's just so much part of his identity now.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

That to me is the telltale sign. Jim ain’t going to lie to a recruit. I genuinely think he wants to hand the keys over to an assistant with a young talented team. The only question is whether the school leadership agrees.

He really missed on the talent issue. The team talent that is perceived in our freshman class is only relative to recent SU teams, not traditional teams. Other than Judah, no one is really ready for ACC basketball. Taylor, who I like, looks to be an ACC caliber shooter. (He had one basket against UVA where he dribbled in then rose up over the defender from about 15’. Nice to see.) Joe staying would hold him back, to the detriment of the program.
Brown is a glue guy. Like him, but not an elite talent. Ideally, he #6 or 7 in your rotation, but is always in your rotation, but if you had a superstar at the 3, he could be the dirty work balance.
Bell’s talent is avoiding missed shots. Excels at it. If Jesse could avoid fouls like Bell avoids rebounds, he’d never have to leave the floor. Carey is obviously raw, but he has athleticism that distinguishes him.
Hima has been a revelation. Don’t know if we were on him before Dusquene, but well done by the staff. With the right players around him, you can win with him in the middle. A nice combination of Forth and McNeil.
This team is not talented enough to not bring in players to compete.

 

[Cuse181]

So that's through 2026. I don't see it unless out of the blue things turn around. 3 or 4 more non tourney seasons? I mean the Dome will be a ghost town by then for games.

A good benefit for Syracuse though is that once things do get better, the fans will be walking right back through the door as there isn’t anyone else to spend money on.

 

[Cuse181]

He really missed on the talent issue. The team talent that is perceived in our freshman class is only relative to recent SU teams, not traditional teams. Other than Judah, no one is really ready for ACC basketball. Taylor, who I like, looks to be an ACC caliber shooter. (He had one basket against UVA where he dribbled in then rose up over the defender from about 15’. Nice to see.) Joe staying would hold him back, to the detriment of the program.
Brown is a glue guy. Like him, but not an elite talent. Ideally, he #6 or 7 in your rotation, but is always in your rotation, but if you had a superstar at the 3, he could be the dirty work balance.
Bell’s talent is avoiding missed shots. Excels at it. If Jesse could avoid fouls like Bell avoids rebounds, he’d never have to leave the floor. Carey is obviously raw, but he has athleticism that distinguishes him.
Hima has been a revelation. Don’t know if we were on him before Dusquene, but well done by the staff. With the right players around him, you can win with him in the middle. A nice combination of Forth and McNeil.
This team is not talented enough to not bring in players to compete.

I know you’re talking about freshman mostly but one thing that should be noted on the “not ready for ACC basketball” - ACC basketball isn’t just Duke, UNC and Virginia, there are teams in the middle who are still ACC teams… Like outside of those 3, Judah would probably start on any of the other teams, same with Jesse (he’d probably be starting at Duke right now honestly despite his short comings) and JG would be at least a 20 minute/game guy and a starter on most if not all the bottom 8. Are they all All ACC 1st or 2nd team caliber guys? Probably not, but does that mean they’re trash who have no business in this league? Of course not.

I’m not saying it’s okay they only have talent to compete with the bottom 10-12 teams but pretending that every other ACC team has these vastly better players/freshman is ridiculous.

 

[Orangezoo]

A good benefit for Syracuse though is that once things do get better, the fans will be walking right back through the door as there isn’t anyone else to spend money on.

Wow.. lol

 

[Brooky03]

I know you’re talking about freshman mostly but one thing that should be noted on the “not ready for ACC basketball” - ACC basketball isn’t just Duke, UNC and Virginia, there are teams in the middle who are still ACC teams… Like outside of those 3, Judah would probably start on any of the other teams, same with Jesse (he’d probably be starting at Duke right now honestly despite his short comings) and JG would be at least a 20 minute/game guy and a starter on most if not all the bottom 8. Are they all All ACC 1st or 2nd team caliber guys? Probably not, but does that mean they’re trash who have no business in this league? Of course not.

I’m not saying it’s okay they only have talent to compete with the bottom 10-12 teams but pretending that every other ACC team has these vastly better players/freshman is ridiculous.

One thing that keeps my head on straight is the recognition that 90% of programs would sign up for the slide that Syracuse has had these last 7-8 years. This is our basement floor, presumably, and we're still consistently better than approximately 300 teams year in and year out.

It'd be like showing up to a track meet with a dozen other opponents, getting shot in the kneecap and still limping away with a bronze medal.

It's all relative. Some fans are watching the worst Syracuse basketball teams they've ever seen and we still tend to finish around the middle of - until very recently - the best conference in the sport.

 

[Orangezoo]

One thing that keeps my head on straight is the recognition that 90% of programs would sign up for the slide that Syracuse has had these last 7-8 years. This is our basement floor, presumably, and we're still consistently better than approximately 300 teams year in and year out.

It'd be like showing up to a track meet with a dozen other opponents, getting shot in the kneecap and still limping away with a bronze medal.

It's all relative. Some fans are watching the worst Syracuse basketball teams they've ever seen and we still tend to finish around the middle of - until very recently - the best conference in the sport.

The fact it's now 6th or 7th in conference rankings over the past 4 plus years isn't a throwaway fact though.

 

[DoctorBombay]

One thing that keeps my head on straight is the recognition that 90% of programs would sign up for the slide that Syracuse has had these last 7-8 years. This is our basement floor, presumably, and we're still consistently better than approximately 300 teams year in and year out.

It'd be like showing up to a track meet with a dozen other opponents, getting shot in the kneecap and still limping away with a bronze medal.

It's all relative. Some fans are watching the worst Syracuse basketball teams they've ever seen and we still tend to finish around the middle of - until very recently - the best conference in the sport.

Agreed.
But my fear is that we haven't sniffed the bottom yet, much like the old Churchill quote about the "end of the beginning".
True, the slide has been slow but no guarantee it won't pick up even more steam if something isn't done soon.
This stagnant status quo w/ JB has to end, sooner rather than later, for things to change. Otherwise we're just stuck here treading water, hoping we won't tire out and drown.

 

[phil77]

This is Syracuse I don't care about the other 90% of the NCAA. We don't live in that area we live in the other 10% and for most teams in the 10% we live in would have fired their coach after the last 8 seasons without any major changes to the staff or the way they do things.

I don't care if Kansas State would be happy with our results. Kansas State isn't our peer group. This isn't football were we should be happy with a winning record or to be competitive. This is basketball were we have or had before the last 5 years a top 10% national program.

To not make drastic changes to keep the program at that level is actually a slap in the face to JB the person who created it.

 

[DoctorBombay]

This is Syracuse I don't care about the other 90% of the NCAA. We don't live in that area we live in the other 10% and for most teams in the 10% we live in would have fired their coach after the last 8 seasons without any major changes to the staff or the way they do things.

I don't care if Kansas State would be happy with our results. Kansas State isn't our peer group. This isn't football were we should be happy with a winning record or to be competitive. This is basketball were we have or had before the last 5 years a top 10% national program.

To not make drastic changes to keep the program at that level is actually a slap in the face to JB the person who created it.

More like JB slapping himself, no?

 

[phil77]

More like JB slapping himself, no?

Both but they hold the power and could have saved JB from this fall at anytime but they fail to do so.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Can’t imagine we wouldn’t get to pick from the cream of the crop there.

What makes you think we will land the cream of the crop?

Have you seen how unsuccessful we have been in landing top players in recent years?

 

[Red Holzman]

 

[Cuse181]

Wow.. lol

I mean, it’s true. It’s not like you’re actually losing fans. Syracuse is 2.5 hours away from the nearest major sports team and 4 hours away from the nearest team the plays on the same days as college basketball (Knicks/sixers). You will never lose a Syracuse fan, if the team wins 25 games in 2025, the dome will be filled again.

 

[FrancoPizza]

A good benefit for Syracuse though is that once things do get better, the fans will be walking right back through the door as there isn’t anyone else to spend money on.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. For many, watching SU games was a ritual of winter. Now many of us don't even know when the next game is or who we're playing. Sports is supposed to be entertainment and a fun diversion. For many it hasn't been fun or something to look forward to for quite some time now. New habits are forming or settling in for many. Lots of streaming content out there. Less snow and bitter cold as well. Because of this it may be a lot harder to win people back once things do turnaround. It may be like football. Fans will need to be convinced that things are clearly trending up. We'll start to pay more attention to the schedule on TV. Then we'll see spikes in single game ticket sales for marquee opponents, and then finally the STHs may return in force.

One way to accelerate this and give the town an enema would be to make a slam-dunk big-splash hire like Pitino or Wright.

 

[Orangezoo]

Agreed.
But my fear is that we haven't sniffed the bottom yet, much like the old Churchill quote about the "end of the beginning".
True, the slide has been slow but no guarantee it won't pick up even more steam if something isn't done soon.
This stagnant status quo w/ JB has to end, sooner rather than later, for things to change. Otherwise we're just stuck here treading water, hoping we won't tire out and drown.

Yep. Look at the top 3 producers this year. Not one is elite in the national context yet the reliance on them is significant. Good yes, but as the year has progressed their limitations are evident.

This year is different than last year but it's arguable we are still level or a tad worse when you factor strength of schedule and injuries.

If we lose Joe and Jesse it leaves Judah and the hope that the youngsters are ready for prime time. So that means roll with it or hit the portal hard. Recent trends show that we won't do a great job with either which only then creates a ground hog day effect of the same questions and concerns then playing out as expected where the zone isn't good enough against the 3, we aren't physical enough on the boards and we struggle to score do to youth and limitations.

Wash, rinse, repeat but with a gradual further decline each year unless we schedule even softer.

 

[Orangezoo]

I mean, it’s true. It’s not like you’re actually losing fans. Syracuse is 2.5 hours away from the nearest major sports team and 4 hours away from the nearest team the plays on the same days as college basketball (Knicks/sixers). You will never lose a Syracuse fan, if the team wins 25 games in 2025, the dome will be filled again.

That's 100 pct an assumption not fact. It's also naive given evidence is much to the contrary. Syracuse built a fanbase over the years. That grows because their is a "base". It's not rocket science. Check the attendance figures before just guessing.

Also the proximity argument is even weaker when you factor other programs and professional programs.

The bigger issue is you find a way to call this all a good thing. The longer things are a struggle, the worse it will get. Unless you are the billionaire that will spend all their money to do what it takes to compete when the brand is even weaker.

 

[Brooky03]

What makes you think we will land the cream of the crop?

Have you seen how unsuccessful we have been in landing top players in recent years?

I don’t follow the transfer portal THAT closely. I’d be surprised if we couldn’t land a top 5-10 SG from the portal if Joe leaves. I could be wrong.

 

[Brooky03]

This is Syracuse I don't care about the other 90% of the NCAA. We don't live in that area we live in the other 10% and for most teams in the 10% we live in would have fired their coach after the last 8 seasons without any major changes to the staff or the way they do things.

I don't care if Kansas State would be happy with our results. Kansas State isn't our peer group. This isn't football were we should be happy with a winning record or to be competitive. This is basketball were we have or had before the last 5 years a top 10% national program.

To not make drastic changes to keep the program at that level is actually a slap in the face to JB the person who created it.

We’ve certainly been spoiled. I too long for the days of Cuse being a perennial top 25 team. And I hope we make the changes needed to get back there.

Programs falling from grace to mediocrity is the rule. Programs staying relevant at a high level for multiple decades is the exception.

Let’s hope we’re the exception.

 

[Cuse181]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. For many, watching SU games was a ritual of winter. Now many of us don't even know when the next game is or who we're playing. Sports is supposed to be entertainment and a fun diversion. For many it hasn't been fun or something to look forward to for quite some time now. New habits are forming or settling in for many. Lots of streaming content out there. Less snow and bitter cold as well. Because of this it may be a lot harder to win people back once things do turnaround. It may be like football. Fans will need to be convinced that things are clearly trending up. We'll start to pay more attention to the schedule on TV. Then we'll see spikes in single game ticket sales for marquee opponents, and then finally the STHs may return in force.

One way to accelerate this and give the town an enema would be to make a slam-dunk big-splash hire like Pitino or Wright.

Nah, I’m pretty certain people just pay to see a winner, if a winner returns, then so will the fans. UConn is selling out games again and they had 3 losing seasons in a row not too long ago. If streaming is what takes fans away from the game as a whole then they’re beyond saving anyway, regardless of the team’s performance over the last 5-6 years.

 

[Brooky03]

Nah, I’m pretty certain people just pay to see a winner, if a winner returns, then so will the fans. UConn is selling out games again and they had 3 losing seasons in a row not too long ago. If streaming is what takes fans away from the game as a whole then they’re beyond saving anyway, regardless of the team’s performance over the last 5-6 years.

Agree with this. If the team gets back to winning, the Dome will be full again.

 

[Cuse181]

That's 100 pct an assumption not fact. It's also naive given evidence is much to the contrary. Syracuse built a fanbase over the years. That grows because their is a "base". It's not rocket science. Check the attendance figures before just guessing.

Also the proximity argument is even weaker when you factor other programs and professional programs.

The bigger issue is you find a way to call this all a good thing. The longer things are a struggle, the worse it will get. Unless you are the billionaire that will spend all their money to do what it takes to compete when the brand is even weaker.

Ehh, I don’t agree at all. Syracuse is the only show in town. Hell, even the football team had a sell out this year and (as people talk about ad nauseam) they’ve only had 2 winning seasons in 7 and haven’t been nationally relevant in 20 years yet people come back when they’re winning. When/If the wins start rolling back in, and the ACC improves, the fans will be back in their seats packing the dome.

Oh and it 100% is a good thing, if we were nova and had the sixers down the road, we would be fighting them for fans money, we don’t have to in Syracuse.

 

[Brooky03]

I will forever be convinced the team is one 6'8", athletic, '5-tool' (can dribble, shoot, jump over dudes, etc.) SF away from winning bunches of games. That's why I always have hope. One NBA caliber SF changes everything. Not a 6'6" SG who can't dribble that great so he plays SF. Not a big athletic Forward who has no jumper. Not a big Forward with a jumper but no athleticism.

Nowadays, teams rise and fall yearly. There aren't any "oh they're really good this year, they'll be good 4 years from now" teams anymore.