Coach for 50 years

[CuseFaninVT]

The sloppiness of college games is what I like. The NBA is very polished and the players are obviously insanely talented.

Professional bowlers are also insanely talented. I don’t watch their events.

Odd comparison

 

[Orangezoo]

I agree with this and, as someone has pointed out, JB thought Benny would be this player you describe. The problem I have is that there is so much acrimony directed towards JB for merely being wrong about Benny's development. I realize he's paid a lot to make those decisions, but he's merely a human. I haven't gone back to look, but I suspect there is no one that posts on this forum that suggested Benny would not develop as quickly as we hoped. We've been blessed with really good wings over the years, and we all thought Benny was the next in line. It's too bad that Benny isn't one of them (yet). It would make a huge difference.

Benny might play the position we are missing that key impact from but so did Kaleb Joseph, Matt Moyer, Jalen Carey, Brycen Goodine, Taurean Thompson...

It's the back to back disappointments in recruits that were highly regarded by this staff and JB that ultimately ended up being busts. Clearly there are more than the above too. It's been consistent trend since Ennis. The idea of luck falls flat when it is a trend.

That was then further impacted by key losses in the portal at positions we thought we had stability and talent to turn things around with.

All that paired with a changing game and a lack of adjustment to those changes and here we are.

 

[Orangezoo]

Odd comparison

When humor isn't humorous...

 

[Brooky03]

Odd comparison

Yeah probably. The point was just that their talent level doesn’t factor into my decision.

 

[Cuse181]

You are getting lost here. My comment was about if we are still here in 2026 with multiple poor seasons stacked up. Now you are changing the timeline.

Also you would be good to look at our actual attendance averages vs spouting off numbers.

UConn made a change and was aggressive about it.. they also won their 4th national title right before that. 4 titles... that matters a little bit. They have aggressively pursued improvement and not accepted unsatisfactory results. Once again - significant differences.

As for booster money, the point is the longer this drags out the more we need to rally recruits and transfers to the brand. Every year we fail to be relevant hurts. Thus since we aren't swimming in that money we need to be more aggressive like a UConn.

The rest of your post is wildly all over the place and still missing the mark.

“Aggressively pursued improvement”

By having 3 losing seasons in a row? Okay lol

I honestly don’t think I’m missing the mark at all, I think you’re making this out to be a far more difficult process then it really is. Getting back to winning ways will not be that hard, right? The whole board seems to have figured it out: get rid of JB. There ya go, all it takes is the team putting together a 22 win season and the dome is back and filled. If Iowa state, UConn And Xavier can do it so can Syracuse. You are TRYING to make this more of a problem than it actually is.

 

[Cuse181]

Which parts? The insane athleticism, talent, skill, drive?

I’d say the tanking

 

[Brooky03]

“Aggressively pursued improvement”

By having 3 losing seasons in a row? Okay lol

I honestly don’t think I’m missing the mark at all, I think you’re making this out to be a far more difficult process then it really is. Getting back to winning ways will not be that hard, right? The whole board seems to have figured it out: get rid of JB. There ya go, all it takes is the team putting together a 22 win season and the dome is back and filled. If Iowa state, UConn And Xavier can do it so can Syracuse. You are TRYING to make this more of a problem than it actually is.

The Orangezoo rules are that if he says you’re lost, you’re lost. And how dare you disagree with him.

 

[Orangezoo]

“Aggressively pursued improvement”

By having 3 losing seasons in a row? Okay lol

I honestly don’t think I’m missing the mark at all, I think you’re making this out to be a far more difficult process then it really is. Getting back to winning ways will not be that hard right The whole board seems to have figure it out: get rid of JB. There ya go, all it takes is the team putting together a 22 win season and the dome is back and filled. If Iowa state, UConn And Xavier can do it so can Syracuse. You are TRYING to make this more of a problem than it actually is.

How is change after 3 losing seasons not aggressive? Mind you don't forget the issues they had with Ollie ongoing.

We get it. You are pollyannish about all this - we could win 6 games until 2025 and you wouldn't change your stance. A few of you have taken this weird semi apologist semi troll thing a little off the rails with an occasional rational thought worked in.

You also can't seem to gather the point you are contesting.

 

[Brooky03]

I’d say the tanking

James Harden being allowed to do James Harden things was where the NBA lost me. Admittedly, it’s getting a little better. But Trae Young exists, so that’s less than ideal.

 

[Orangezoo]

The Orangezoo rules are that if he says you’re lost, you’re lost. And how dare you disagree with him.

Projection and juvenile call outs- what a great contribution to the board.

Glad you and 181 have one another.

 

[Cuse181]

How is change after 3 losing seasons not aggressive? Mind you don't forget the issues they had with Ollie ongoing.

We get it. You are pollyannish about all this - we could win 6 games until 2025 and you wouldn't change your stance. A few of you have taken this weird semi apologist semi troll thing a little off the rails with an occasional rational thought worked in.

You also can't seem to gather the point you are contesting.

The point I’m contesting is that Syracuse is forever losing their fanbase, and my response is: the fanbase can be won back very easily because they are the only show in town. My direct evidence is Syracuse football selling out games/drawing 40K+ crowd when they have success despite 20 years of mediocrity. Building a program in football is far harder than basketball and yet a half built machine was able to sell 48k tickets. What is the argument YOU are trying to make? That losing makes it harder to build back up a program, and it certainly does, but if a winner ever comes back into town, the dome will sell out.

 

[OrangeDW]

Projection and juvenile call outs- what a great contribution to the board.

Glad you and 181 have one another.

“As long as we’ve got each other, we got the world spinning right in our hands.”

 

[Orangezoo]

The point I’m contesting is that Syracuse is forever losing their fanbase, and my response is: the fanbase can be won back very easily because they are the only show in town. My direct evidence is Syracuse football selling out games/drawing 40K+ crowd when they have success despite 20 years of mediocrity. Building a program in football is far harder than basketball and yet a half built machine was able to sell 48k tickets. What is the argument YOU are trying to make? That losing makes it harder to build back up a program, and it certainly does, but if a winner ever comes back into town, the dome will sell out.

Ok so I'm not saying they are forever losing their fanbase. That said the fanbase can and will shrink over time with a lack of success.

The football example was an extreme, an event that was the first since 87. As you saw with a couple losses that was an anomaly. We can build it back up but that itself takes sustained success.

Sustained success needs support and commitment- it's not a one way street. If we wait till 2026 without a turnaround year we will get a new hire that will need time. That change will help but after a decade plus of frustration you need to turn it around quickly. So the timeline to turning it around continues to extend which means getting that support back is further out. It risks the hoops program having a reduced ceiling like football now has.

So no fans aren't gone forever but fan support carries a direct relationship to success of a program. Now we have the NIL variable. So both success and time matters into all this.

None of what I'm saying is defeatist - and shouldn't be taken as such. If you were around long enough you would know I was one of the longest holdout optimists on here and I'm not going anywhere.

 

[OrangeDW]

Ok so I'm not saying they are forever losing their fanbase. That said the fanbase can and will shrink over time with a lack of success.

The football example was an extreme, an event that was the first since 87. As you saw with a couple losses that was an anomaly. We can build it back up but that itself takes sustained success.

Sustained success needs support and commitment- it's not a one way street. If we wait till 2026 without a turnaround year we will get a new hire that will need time. That change will help but after a decade plus of frustration you need to turn it around quickly. So the timeline to turning it around continues to extend which means getting that support back is further out. It risks the hoops program having a reduced ceiling like football now has.

So no fans aren't gone forever but fan support carries a direct relationship to success of a program. Now we have the NIL variable. So both success and time matters into all this.

None of what I'm saying is defeatist - and shouldn't be taken as such. If you were around long enough you would know I was one of the longest holdout optimists on here and I'm not going anywhere.

I am worried about it because there’s an entire generation of kids that haven’t seen Cuse be a b-ball power, who mostly like the NBA. What happens when they’re the working adults and have far less attachment to the program?

 

[Orangezoo]

I am worried about it because there’s an entire generation of kids that haven’t seen Cuse be a b-ball power, who mostly like the NBA. What happens when they’re the working adults and have far less attachment to the program?

Yeah... and that clock keeps ticking.

 

[althea]

Benny might play the position we are missing that key impact from but so did Kaleb Joseph, Matt Moyer, Jalen Carey, Brycen Goodine, Taurean Thompson...

It's the back to back disappointments in recruits that were highly regarded by this staff and JB that ultimately ended up being busts. Clearly there are more than the above too. It's been consistent trend since Ennis. The idea of luck falls flat when it is a trend.

That was then further impacted by key losses in the portal at positions we thought we had stability and talent to turn things around with.

All that paired with a changing game and a lack of adjustment to those changes and here we are.

No one is denying the misses in recruiting but in fairness we’ve also had success since Ennis. I think all of the new players are good. Hopefully they stay for a few years.
My point is I think we are one player away from being pretty good and yes I realize many teams can say that.
My other point is I don’t understand all of the JB hate. He’s had exactly one losing season so far.
I’m not going to keep obsessing about things I have no control over.

 

[Orangezoo]

No one is denying the misses in recruiting but in fairness we’ve also had success since Ennis. I think all of the new players are good. Hopefully they stay for a few years.
My point is I think we are one player away from being pretty good and yes I realize many teams can say that.
My other point is I don’t understand all of the JB hate. He’s had exactly one losing season so far.
I’m not going to keep obsessing about things I have no control over.

I can appreciate the optimism and would love it to be correct. As for the JB hate- it's not hate. Never was. Love JB- it's the program and his legacy both at issue here. Also losing season feels like the latest measuring stick being dropped. Results and recruiting both are down.

The issue is how long this carries on. We all hope it turns soon but there are just so many things that have regressed. He has done enough and I'm just not convinced the nearing 80 yrs old version of JB can leave the program where it needs to be.

 

[Cuse181]

I am worried about it because there’s an entire generation of kids that haven’t seen Cuse be a b-ball power, who mostly like the NBA. What happens when they’re the working adults and have far less attachment to the program?

They’re two different leagues, they can’t be fans of both?

 

[Red Holzman]

I am worried about it because there’s an entire generation of kids that haven’t seen Cuse be a b-ball power, who mostly like the NBA. What happens when they’re the working adults and have far less attachment to the program?

A good team will create media buzz and the fans will return IMO.

What's sad now is emails offering "Get Lucky Prizes" for buying a ticket to a weekend game vs Notre Dame.
That says a lot to me about the state of affairs the program has arrived at.

 

[OrangeDW]

A good team will create media buzz and the fans will return IMO.

What's sad now is emails offering "Get Lucky Prizes" for buying a ticket to a weekend game vs Notre Dame.
That says a lot to me about the state of affairs the program has arrived at.

Bandwagon fans selling out a few out of the 6 football games a year is one thing.

B-ball - I think it takes a lot of diehards to get a good crowd on a Wednesday night against a team nobody cares about 15 times a year. The bandwagoners don’t go to those games.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I know you’re talking about freshman mostly but one thing that should be noted on the “not ready for ACC basketball” - ACC basketball isn’t just Duke, UNC and Virginia, there are teams in the middle who are still ACC teams… Like outside of those 3, Judah would probably start on any of the other teams, same with Jesse (he’d probably be starting at Duke right now honestly despite his short comings) and JG would be at least a 20 minute/game guy and a starter on most if not all the bottom 8. Are they all All ACC 1st or 2nd team caliber guys? Probably not, but does that mean they’re trash who have no business in this league? Of course not.

I’m not saying it’s okay they only have talent to compete with the bottom 10-12 teams but pretending that every other ACC team has these vastly better players/freshman is ridiculous.

I did say outside of Judah

 

[SUbear]

Exactly.

Where do people think the fans from 9 years ago went? Florida? Did they all die?

Fans watch winners. If you like sports and live in Syracuse, you're not going to skip out on catching at least a few games played by the local team if that team is good. Live entertainment will always beat out streaming the latest Netflix episode. And, like you said, there is practically zero live entertainment competition with Syracuse basketball. Even if the War Memorial sells out for a hockey game on the same night Cuse plays, that's like 37 people.

I do not know about others, but I am leaving for Florida in early Feb and not returning till April, long after Bball concludes. I never would have done this in the past, but I do not want to watch bad play, that is what I see now. I am losing interest, and I never thought I would.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah I previously would have agreed with this and in fact did before seeing this new normal with NIL. As outward NIL recruiting likely gets addressed as everyone catches up to how the rat race works, a program that isn't developing a reputation as a winner both on the court and off it as at a potentially growing disadvantage.

Also I tend to wonder what the Gen Z take is on it given most of them don't know this program as anything but a flash in the pan in terms of success.

Eh, I’m not convinced. We have NIL resources for hoops, and you’re suggesting that things have already largely calcified. I don’t see that at all, IMHO.

I’d rather be better than we are. But I don’t think another year or 2 from JB is the death knell for the program. Just gotta make a good hire. That’s critical.

 

[Orangezoo]

Eh, I’m not convinced. We have NIL resources for hoops, and you’re suggesting that things have already largely calcified. I don’t see that at all, IMHO.

I’d rather be better than we are. But I don’t think another year or 2 from JB is the death knell for the program. Just gotta make a good hire. That’s critical.

I don't think they have calcified yet. I would prefer we don't linger in this downward void for too much longer though.

Something else that is out of our control I haven't noted but is also concerning is the ACC in general. Really need the league as a whole to pick back up to a top 3 league.

 

[DilemaCuse]

I don't think they have calcified yet. I would prefer we don't linger in this downward void for too much longer though.

Something else that is out of our control I haven't noted but is also concerning is the ACC in general. Really need the league as a whole to pick back up to a top 3 league.

League is down because SU and Louisville are not carrying their weight. They haven't found stability since Pitino. JB has too much stability even in decline and the transition to someone else is long overdue.