Darius Bazley

[Horn88]

Ok, What has he done in the past 8 months to improve his chance of being drafted into a good situation? Seems like theres been a lot more hurt.

I don't think we can answer that until we see how the draft plays out. If he does really well in predraft workouts then it will seem like whatever his development plan has been paid off.

And when I say good situation there are a lot of variables that go in to that. Jerami was drafted later than some or he thought but into a good situation for him to develop and now is having a great career.

That's my point. Darius career will be impacted much more on who drafts him, their development plan for him, their roster construction, etc. than if he went to Syracuse for a season or if he chose the path he chose.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think Bazley will end up ok since Lebron has backed him along with Lebron’s agent and has been on record publicly encouraging him and the path he took. Lebron’s agent Rich Paul has a business setting the details, contacts and contracts to make this a viable path to the NBA for players who don’t want to attend college and give them a new career path to the NBA. They never do say though what their cut of the action is. They are paying $200,000 this year for Bazely’s internship in Boston for 3 months from January through this month to learn all about shoe design and the business end of shoe contracts etc. It is in their self interest that he makes it and is at least financially secure for their test to replace college etc for top high school recruits for their new business venture to attract more clients even if they do lose money on Bazely. JB’s comments ruffled Lebron.

I think it’s interesting that Bazely’s shoe contract is with New Balance who left the basketball shoe market in 1990 to re-enter it with Bazely when Lebron is a Nike guy. Also that he got Bazely but not Zion etc.


(Sorry I don’t know how to embed tweets)

Darius Bazely Turns Down College and Lands Multi-Year Endorsement Deal with New Balance | The Source

I'm not sure about this. Rich Paul was on The Jump on ESPN and he was very clear Bazely did this on his own and had already made the decision before him. He totally distanced himself from the decision and said we are doing the best to find options for him.

 

[Horn88]

I wish Darius well but the young man needs 20+lbs of muscle if he plans on making a NBA roster ever. He would have been eaten alive in the NBA G League by men fighting to get the call up. His agent did him a big favor by pulling the plug on the G league idea. The benefits he missed out on by bypassing college are strength and conditioning programs (guy is a stick figure), social aspects, and practicing/playing in actual games. I'm curious to see if he is drafted and if he can stick on a NBA roster.

Completely agree on pulling him from the G League. That was a smart move as his body just isn't ready right now to meet the physicality of playing against grown men night in and night out. NBA teams I think know that though. I don't think going to Syracuse would've helped an awful lot in terms of him bulking up while here when I look at Paschal, Marek, Sidibe who have similar tall, lanky body types and are in our S&C program for multiple years.

 

[AZOrange]

Darius doesn't need Syracuse's help to be discovered. He's signed with Rich Paul and was a 5 star recruit. NBA teams know who he is.

And you didn't answer my question on if you think what Bazeley did the last 7 months to develop will have a material impact on his NBA career. Which is the entire crux of this argument when people say it was a poor decision.

I’m not going to keep trying to convince you how it will work. The first words out of a guys mouth that make these decisions will be “who? The first words out of the guys mouth that make these decisions will be “who?” Followed by “oh the kid that skipped college and didn’t play in the gleague...what’s he been doing for a year?” Going to be hard for analytics guys to assess him at all.
How many guys in any sport that are highly rated take a year off before they get drafted?

 

[AZOrange]

I wish Darius well but the young man needs 20+lbs of muscle if he plans on making a NBA roster ever. He would have been eaten alive in the NBA G League by men fighting to get the call up. His agent did him a big favor by pulling the plug on the G league idea. The benefits he missed out on by bypassing college are strength and conditioning programs (guy is a stick figure), social aspects, and practicing/playing in actual games. I'm curious to see if he is drafted and if he can stick on a NBA roster.

People don’t realize how tough the G League is

 

[cuseinseattle]

Darius doesn't need Syracuse's help to be discovered. He's signed with Rich Paul and was a 5 star recruit. NBA teams know who he is.

And you didn't answer my question on if you think what Bazeley did the last 7 months to develop will have a material impact on his NBA career. Which is the entire crux of this argument when people say it was a poor decision.

It will have a big impact. He would have been playing competitive basketball against the best players in the country and gotten lots of exposure. He would have improved through out the year and showcased his game and gotten valuable visibility. You can ask Ennis, Malachi or Lydon how it worked out. It was a mistake on the kids part and that is fine. I don't wish him ill will but he made a mistake. It's hard enough to stick in the league for 4 or 5 years when you are the 24th pick in the draft let alone late 2nd round. It's certainly possible, I mean Jerami Grant did it but it's really hard.

 

[Horn88]

I’m not going to keep trying to convince you how it will work. The first words out of a guys mouth that make these decisions will be “who? The first words out of the guys mouth that make these decisions will be “who?” Followed by “oh the kid that skipped college and didn’t play in the gleague...what’s he been doing for a year?” Going to be hard for analytics guys to assess him at all.
How many guys in any sport that are highly rated take a year off before they get drafted?

Darius was a McDonald's AA. NBA teams send scouts to the practices and game to evaluate the players because they know it is the top tier of future prospects they'll be drafting. Despite what you seem convinced of, people who's full time job and career it is to know the field of prospects for their employer to draft will know who he is even though he did not put on the jersey of your favorite team for one season.

Yes, they 100% will ask what he's been doing the past year. And then he'll come in for a workout and they'll evaluate him.

Again, my entire point is that Darius career will be impacted much more on who drafts him, his work ethic, their development plan for him, their roster construction, etc. than if he went to Syracuse for a season or if he chose the path he chose.

 

[AZOrange]

Darius was a McDonald's AA. NBA teams send scouts to the practices and game to evaluate the players because they know it is the top tier of future prospects they'll be drafting. Despite what you seem convinced of, people who's full time job and career it is to know the field of prospects for their employer to draft will know who he is even though he did not put on the jersey of your favorite team for one season.

Yes, they 100% will ask what he's been doing the past year. And then he'll come in for a workout and they'll evaluate him.

Again, my entire point is that Darius career will be impacted much more on who drafts him, his work ethic, their development plan for him, their roster construction, etc. than if he went to Syracuse for a season or if he chose the path he chose.

I’ve said my piece and need to be careful with what I say going forward. I disagree fully with your first paragraph.

 

[AZOrange]

It will have a big impact. He would have been playing competitive basketball against the best players in the country and gotten lots of exposure. He would have improved through out the year and showcased his game and gotten valuable visibility. You can ask Ennis, Malachi or Lydon how it worked out. It was a mistake on the kids part and that is fine. I don't wish him ill will but he made a mistake. It's hard enough to stick in the league for 4 or 5 years when you are the 24th pick in the draft let alone late 2nd round. It's certainly possible, I mean Jerami Grant did it but it's really hard.

Jerami Grant also showed his potential in college. And he had an NBA pedigree.

 

[Horn88]

I’ve said my piece and need to be careful with what I say going forward. I disagree fully with your first paragraph.

What do you mean you fully disagree with the first paragraph? It isn't an opinion, it's a fact. You're incorrect to say NBA front offices won't know who Darius is because he didn't play in college this season when he was just playing in the McDonald's game a year ago.

McDonald’s All American Game: Event has grown immensely over the last 42 years

"To that point, most NBA scouts contend that it’s the No. 1 place they can come and evaluate this level of player before the NBA Draft.

“They’re talking about the NCAA Tournament, the combine, everything,” Joe said. “Because there’s never this much talent in one gym. This game is literally giving the kids a chance to realize their dreams.”

That was evident this week as NBA scouts lined the bleachers at practices jotting notes and evaluating players’ abilities and tendencies."

 

[Shenexon]

So your argument is that long term in 15 years when people look back on Darius Bazely's basketball career that the decision when he was 18 years old to take $200k and workout with his own team and enter the draft as opposed to play in the Syracuse program for 7 months and then enter the draft will be significant?

That is my point. His future is much more impacted by the situation he is drafted into, not his decision on how to spend the last 7 months. I don't agree with the people who are so eager to say his decision is "nonsensical" or going to be this huge detriment to his career.

I think it's premature to assign success or failure to Bazely's strategy. There are plenty of ways to analyze his situation and many potential scenarios. In the end there are just lots of questions.

Who helped his draft status more...Darius or Zion? Both are one and done but one is going to get paid more for his 7 month career and it isn't Darius. More kids have successfully followed Zion' s model than Darius' so there is no proven track record for what he's trying to do.

Is there anyone outside of LeBron and a couple of others that have succeeded using that strategy? Is Darius the same kind of talent? Has the year off helped or hurt his skills and conditioning for basketball? He may not have wanted to go to school any more, but to think that taking a year off is going to help his transition to a pro level of competition seems a tough way to go.

Sports is all about competition. More players make a career from displays of skill and intensity than by sitting out. That may not be true for Bazely but I don't see how it's an advantage for him. He's an unproven kid with potential, not a sure bet for success on any level. I don't care that he chose not to go to college, specifically SU, but his was a risky play and may not work out to his benefit.

There have been way more kids with potential that no one remembers than success stories in the NBA with Bazely's current resume. Sometimes there's a reason to avoid the road less traveled...

 

[Briancuse]

Ya I remember something about being a trailblazer and being the cool thing to do I guess not.

 

[Horn88]

I think it's premature to assign success or failure to Bazely's strategy. There are plenty of ways to analyze his situation and many potential scenarios. In the end there are just lots of questions.

Who helped his draft status more...Darius or Zion? Both are one and done but one is going to get paid more for his 7 month career and it isn't Darius. More kids have successfully followed Zion' s model than Darius' so there is no proven track record for what he's trying to do.

Is there anyone outside of LeBron and a couple of others that have succeeded using that strategy? Is Darius the same kind of talent? Has the year off helped or hurt his skills and conditioning for basketball? He may not have wanted to go to school any more, but to think that taking a year off is going to help his transition to a pro level of competition seems a tough way to go.

Sports is all about competition. More players make a career from displays of skill and intensity than by sitting out. That may not be true for Bazely but I don't see how it's an advantage for him. He's an unproven kid with potential, not a sure bet for success on any level. I don't care that he chose not to go to college, specifically SU, but his was a risky play and may not work out to his benefit.

There have been way more kids with potential that no one remembers than success stories in the NBA with Bazely's current resume. Sometimes there's a reason to avoid the road less traveled...

I agree with you that it's premature to label his decision a success or failure and that's pretty much been my point in all this. It was a unique and contrarian path but ultimately I think that the decision won't have all that much impact on however Darius's career ends up unfolding.

 

[kingtidge]

I agree with you that it's premature to label his decision a success or failure and that's pretty much been my point in all this. It was a unique and contrarian path but ultimately I think that the decision won't have all that much impact on however Darius's career ends up unfolding.

Ummm... Not going to college for a year or two and killing any chance of being a top lottery pick... Then taking a year off with no high level competition...

The question isn't will it impact on his career... The question is how big of an impact it will have on his career.

He's got a tough hill to climb.

 

[chugg21]

That’s a publicly available theory if you choose to believe it...it’s not what really happened though. There’s a great article
In the Post about how Cashman got Stanton. You should read it as it gives great insight into effective process vs ineffective.

It's a logical theory because neither has lived up to expectations and their expected trajectory and therefore value as an asset has decreased accordingly. If either of them was on a future all-star path right now then the deal would have been made. Not to mention that the Pelicans had little incentive to make a deal prior to the Celtics being able to make their best offer since the Lakers offer will still be sitting there on July 1st.

 

[Orijinal]

Their stock rose because of their performance while NBA scouting departments were evaluating them. The fact they were shown on CBS or ESPN was not a primary reason or why they heard of these players.

I don't think people realize what professional scouting departments do. They aren't fans watching games on the couch and forming opinions like the casual message board poster. They travel to games all over the country and watch them in person, they reach out to all kinds of people that have known these players since they were in junior high, they interview them, they run them through intense workouts, they take metrics and data and plug it into advanced models to try and project the ceiling and floor of the player based on the data of thousands of past prospects, etc.

The biggest loss as Trueblue mentioned is that he doesn't have a year of game tape for scouts to evaluate. Other than that the other developmental differences are negligible one way or the other.

If that's what professional scouts do, then they should a better job at their job. There is a lot to be said about scouts who have their eyes glazed over by winning teams ...both for the bad (all the Syracuse players who didn't make it after being drafted) and the better (the hits with the big boy prospects) ...who, by the way, are known to be phenomenal by many fans just sitting on the couch

 

[Orijinal]

Ill say this, and its to your point, i am not sure anyone who is solely driven by money will have the greatest success in their field. I think you still need to have passion/a love for the game. I question a player’s desire who would forgo the opportunity to play in college, to learn from a HOF coach. Say what you want about the corruptness of the system, playing college basketball means something. Just watch a march madness game if you need confirmation. Darius passed up that opportunity. That to me is a red flag. If i am a nba team, id want a guy like zion, who has made it clear that he is playing for his love of the game, for his teammates. Give me that character all day. Not the “what can you do for me” attitude that permeates everything these days.

Cheers

 

[Orijinal]

Darius was a McDonald's AA. NBA teams send scouts to the practices and game to evaluate the players because they know it is the top tier of future prospects they'll be drafting. Despite what you seem convinced of, people who's full time job and career it is to know the field of prospects for their employer to draft will know who he is even though he did not put on the jersey of your favorite team for one season.

Yes, they 100% will ask what he's been doing the past year. And then he'll come in for a workout and they'll evaluate him.

Again, my entire point is that Darius career will be impacted much more on who drafts him, his work ethic, their development plan for him, their roster construction, etc. than if he went to Syracuse for a season or if he chose the path he chose.

How do you think his predraft workout will go after taking a year off from playing competitive basketball?

 

[Trueblue25]

Its sad that a 5 star McDonalds AA career rests on getting drafted into the right situation now. The comparison with Grants a poor one. Grant had the pedigree and size. He also played himself into his draft position.

 

[Tony DeFranco]

Bazley is gonna be fortunate to get drafted - taking a year off when you could play in the ACC or overseas or somewhere is about as dumb as it gets - if I'm the GM I automatically know this kid is low IQ - like real en dumb

 

[realorange]

Their stock rose because of their performance while NBA scouting departments were evaluating them. The fact they were shown on CBS or ESPN was not a primary reason or why they heard of these players.

I don't think people realize what professional scouting departments do. They aren't fans watching games on the couch and forming opinions like the casual message board poster. They travel to games all over the country and watch them in person, they reach out to all kinds of people that have known these players since they were in junior high, they interview them, they run them through intense workouts, they take metrics and data and plug it into advanced models to try and project the ceiling and floor of the player based on the data of thousands of past prospects, etc.

The biggest loss as Trueblue mentioned is that he doesn't have a year of game tape for scouts to evaluate. Other than that the other developmental differences are negligible one way or the other.

Perhaps I should have been clearer.

Ennis, Richardson, Waiters, etc. would not have been rated as high as they were if they had gone to G league, stayed out of college or whatever.

The fact they went to college so the scouts could see them play is what I'm getting at plus it didn't hurt that they had stellar moments that enhanced their draft position.

I am well aware what scouts do. If they don't have anything to go by other an occasional workout or exhibition game it[s not quite the same as seeing an athlete for a full season. And how they did in high school is only a small piece of the puzzle.

 

[Horn88]

How do you think his predraft workout will go after taking a year off from playing competitive basketball?

I'd be surprised if he didn't look rusty during 5 on 5 but the pieces other than that might not be impacted too much if that's essentially all he's been doing for a year straight.

 

[Trueblue25]

I'd be surprised if he didn't look rusty during 5 on 5 but the pieces other than that might not be impacted too much if that's essentially all he's been doing for a year straight.

I still fail to see how Bazley, looking at from where he is right now today, did not need college basketball.

Outside of some money, what advantage does he currently have that 100+ graduating or early entry college basketball players don’t?

What was the pay off?

 

[Orijinal]

That information seems confused to me. The article clearly says:

"Later Paul told ESPN Bazeley will receive $200k in base salary over five years, if he remains on an NBA roster in the second year and is in the league each season thereafter."

I don't see a firm answer to how much the 3 month internship pays or what he gets before he makes an NBA roster, if anything. The fact that they call it an internship and not a job, suggests it probably doesn't pay much. But that statement, pretty clearly says his $1 million ($200K annually) is contingent on him making an NBA roster after this upcoming draft (in the second year out of high school) and being on an NBA roster for each of the next 5 years thereafter in order to get the annual $200K payment.

It sounds like all that was done for him was to limit his upside. If he gets a rookie roster spot following the draft, I assume he isn't going to have a problem getting a shoe deal. If he makes a big splash in his first year, New Balance got a huge discount here.

Congratulations on a whole lot of nothing! Well that's not entirely true, Rich Paul and Lebron James got a whole lot of ink and Darius did get an internship. If he doesn't get drafted that internship will come in handy if he wants to apply for a big corner suite office job at Nike.

Soooooo, what you're telling me is, Darius wanted $200,000 of unguaranteed money over 5 years so that, should he meet the stipulations of the contract, he would get $40,000/year, but would be making much more than that over 5 years in the NBA anyway?

OR does he get paid $200,000 by New Balance his first year in the NBA, and that amount escalates every successive year he's in the NBA thereafter?

 

[Horn88]

I still fail to see how Bazley, looking at from where he is right now today, did not need college basketball.

Outside of some money, what advantage does he currently have that 100+ graduating or early entry college basketball players don’t?

What was the pay off?

Again, I will state my point that keeps getting lost in replies that are addressing things I haven't argued.

Darius's basketball career will not be made and will not be broken based on his decision to not play college basketball this past season. Darius's career, like most NBA players regardless of if you were a 3 star or 5 star unless you're an NBA all star, will be much more impacted by the situation he is drafted into and his work ethic once he gets there. So people giving a verdict that he ruined his career or will be flipping burgers by the time he's 30 are quite premature.

Would college basketball have given him opportunities to play well and get evaluated further to get drafted higher? Probably but I think what he does once he gets in the league and how his development is handled by his future team will have a lot more impact on what the "end product" of his game will look like than what he's done this past season.

That has consistently been my point. He doesn't need college basketball for NBA scouts to find out who he is like some suggested and his weakness of his build and strength wouldn't have disappeared if he went to college when he's undoubtedly working out with a trainer right now.