Everybody Needs to Think Realistically

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think this team is ranked with another coach.

Also realistically knowing JB he might respond from this years abomination with a great season next year. But this year is on him.


I’m a lifelong fan that’s frustrated but no way I make a change realistically. The university would have to give Oats 5 mil per tomorrow. Won’t happen

The team is just not good. IDK that a coach could make a difference

 

[SBU72]

Crazy how we get so excited over a #27 recruit. It's almost like we never get recruits higher than #30 anymore. Oh right we don't. We used to regularly snag recruits in the 10 - 40 range. Now we get excited over one recruit that cracks the top 30 lol.

Meanwhile we see programs like Michigan, Florida State, Alabama, etc, elevating their recruiting. Michigan has 4 recruits in the top 50 in the next cycle with two of them in the top 10. Our program is in such a dire state that we can only dream of that scenario playing out here. Last I checked Michigan isn't exactly balmy weather. We have a better arena, newly renovated, and even that couldn't improve things.

Listen I love the guy and everything he's done for the program. I honestly try to put myself in JB's shows. 75 years old. 45 years of absolute fun coaching basketball, earning fame, the adoration of an entire town, and many millions of dollars. Then I look at the situation that is playing out and wonder why I'm not recognizing that I'm living the last years of my life destroying what I created while not enjoying retirement. It just boggles the mind that this guy and his selfishness are dragging down an entire town and fan base. The sanctions, the Hopkins plan, all of that, and he decided to move forward like this? Recruiting is garbage, the assistants suck, there's no player development, we lose 12-15 games a year. I mean holy s### what is it going to take?

His last year was supposed to be 2018. Imagine if he abided by that, and Hopkins was here. We would have gotten Isaiah Stewart and who knows who else. The program would be, I believe, in a great position right now. Instead, the broken record continues to spin with no known end to the nonsense.

The 3 schools you happen to mention are all state schools, almost twice the size of SU. For recruiting, both are significant as it means more money. At one time, JB's salary was among the lowest for P5 coaches. Not so sure anymore. I wonder how the assistant coaches salary compare. Could have an impact on who SU gets and definitely have a huge impact on who comes in and his staff when JB leaves.

 

[SWC75]

I guess I will have to say it again. Not just to you, but to everyone.

Knock off the information-shaming. Knock off the "Who are your sources - if they really exist?" Knock off all this BS. Take the information, and believe it or don't.

You know what they call sources who are outed? Ex-sources.

Are you sure? Who told you that?

 

[CuseRunner]

Why doesn't he have to see this realistically but we all do?

Because. We have not been the HC of the Syracuse Basketball program for 45 years, Went to 5 F4, Won a National Championship, and won over 1000 games. Should I stay on the court with all of his accolades and accomplishments or move off the court for everything he has done and been for the University and the community.

 

[CuseChat23]

I don't think anyone would disagree what coach has done for SU Basketball and for our community. The problem is what we are seeing over the last what 7 or so years with our eyes. He is not the same coach. he was in 2003 or even the years around 2009-2012. Do you remember the "We are #1 tshirts everyone rushed to Manny's to buy? This program has fallen so far. A consistent top 25 team with the occasional run into the top 10 to a team that is a consistent bubble team that ESPN loves to get ratings from having analysts argue wether SU belongs in the tournament or not year after year.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Because. We have not been the HC of the Syracuse Basketball program for 45 years, Went to 5 F4, Won a National Championship, and won over 1000 games. Should I stay on the court with all of his accolades and accomplishments or move off the court for everything he has done and been for the University and the community.

Not sure what he has done for the community and for individuals in it, all of which are considerable, has to do with him keeping his job as basketball coach.

 

[Arangeman]

Wildhack reveres JB too much to ask him to step down as long as Buddy is here. I’m assuming Buddy plays two more years. So that is when it is feasible there is a coaching change, ‘23-‘24.

 

[Cuse Action]

Marek/Bourama/AG/QG and possibly another will be gone imo. It also wouldn't surprise me if a few stay. Its a crapshoot. I think there's a better chance of Marek/Bourama coming back for a extra year then for AG/QG coming back. Woody/Braswell are a question mark too. Guess it depends on how frustrated some of these guys are and what the transfer rules are.

AG transferred to SU, so you think he's going that route again? I don't and I can't see him in the NBA, maybe overseas.

 

[Cusesky8214]

AG transferred to SU, so you think he's going that route again? I don't and I can't see him in the NBA, maybe overseas.

AG won't transfer

 

[Trueblue25]

I do not understand why anybody would be ok with AG or Guerrier transferring. Nonsensical. Irrational. Ridiculous.

 

[orangecuse]

The 3 schools you happen to mention are all state schools, almost twice the size of SU. For recruiting, both are significant as it means more money. At one time, JB's salary was among the lowest for P5 coaches. Not so sure anymore. I wonder how the assistant coaches salary compare. Could have an impact on who SU gets and definitely have a huge impact on who comes in and his staff when JB leaves.

Your post about state schools is 100% irrelevant as this is not football. Being in a P5 conference allows SU (for hoops) the good fortune of being able to compete with all schools playing at this level. Money will not be an issue when it comes to landing a head coach, any assistants, etc. for hoops. Syracuse University is the 6th winningest program in college basketball history, and with all of its resources made available to them, etc., it should act in accordance to such.

 

[Cuse1055]

Wildhack reveres JB too much to ask him to step down as long as Buddy is here. I’m assuming Buddy plays two more years. So that is when it is feasible there is a coaching change, ‘23-‘24.

And that could be a VERY long 2 years.

 

[CuseRunner]

Not sure what he has done for the community and for individuals in it, all of which are considerable, has to do with him keeping his job.

It's loyalty that he has had and shown for us. So we should hold it for him. JB has earned the right to go out when he want's to and JW knows this and will allow it.

 

[SWC75]

Because. We have not been the HC of the Syracuse Basketball program for 45 years, Went to 5 F4, Won a National Championship, and won over 1000 games. Should I stay on the court with all of his accolades and accomplishments or move off the court for everything he has done and been for the University and the community.

it's interesting to read the comments about JB in this thread and to read the lacrosse board which now has comments like this:

"Classy no excuse interview by Lars giving credit to Cuse without tarring his players. Lars is viewed as a good poker player but Desko was the one going pre planned all his changes, switches and schemes for this matchup without divulging anything. All were aware and ready .Desko may be the quiet giant but he is a good strategist during the week and a calm statesman when its most needed. Five stars to staff , more difficult to quickly turnaround under current environment."

John Desko has been excoriated for the program's failures and decline in recent years and people wanted him out after last week but now he's a 'quiet giant'. We'll see what happens next week.

It's also interesting to compare the personalities of Boeheim, Desko and Babers in pressers and radio shows. Desko is always the same, analytic with a monotone. Babers is always the charmer, full of aphorisms. JB sits in his machine gun nest, with his hand on the trigger in case somebody crosses the line.

 

[CuseRunner]

B sits in his machine gun nest, with his hand on the trigger in case somebody crosses the line.

Steve. Our local sports media here both electronic and print are clowns. How many times has somebody written or said something just to get JB to respond and he does. Bud Poliquin was famous for this. Least when Donna or Mike would write something JB would slap their wrist and they would learn their lesson. There is a reason why JB has a different vibe when he is doing national media versus local media. How many times does this need to be said.

 

[Cusesky8214]

It's loyalty that he has had and shown for us. So we should hold it for him. JB has earned the right to go out when he want's to and JW knows this and will allow it.

I figured it out...runner is JWs son. Its the only way he would know exactly what he will allow with such certainty.

 

[Trueblue25]

It's loyalty that he has had and shown for us. So we should hold it for him. JB has earned the right to go out when he want's to and JW knows this and will allow it.

Id be loyal to a program too that stood by me through multiple sanctions, embarrassing antics and named a court after me.

How about we acknowledge that the fanbase is the loyal undying party here.

 

[Briancuse]

Because. We have not been the HC of the Syracuse Basketball program for 45 years, Went to 5 F4, Won a National Championship, and won over 1000 games. Should I stay on the court with all of his accolades and accomplishments or move off the court for everything he has done and been for the University and the community.

No one is denying he is an icon and the Mt Rushmore of syracuse bball starts with him. The man is 76 years old and the product on the court is mediocre. Isn't it fair to wonder if the game has passed him by?

 

[hoopsupstate]

The main issue is that his message isn’t getting through to his players. They are either uncoachable or he isn’t relating to them. It’s probably a combination of the two.

 

[miamicuse]

LOL I struggled to find the right thread to post this because there are like 50 running threads with the same sort of discussions at the same time.

I wonder if the current state of the basketball program is caused by a person (JB) or because of a system set up to fail over time.

The reason I am saying this is I don't think JB coaches the same way as others. I remember an interview of JB a few years ago, in his office, and he was asked if it's a challenge to still coach as his age. He sat down and pointed to a row of big screen monitors in his office, and told the interviewer that technology is great, that technology has allowed him to watch the practices from up here, to keep an eye on what's going on down there.

We also know while coaches like Calipari steps in personally early on in recruiting to build a relationship with a recruit and his parents, JB doesn't. His assistants do most of the recruiting and he comes in at the end as a closer. Because of that he doesn't really have relationships with the recruits, when an assistant leaves (Hop) the impact on recruiting can be devastating. When Dior Johnson decommitted JB said publicly he never personally committed. What does this mean? Didn't the CUSE offered DJ before he could initially commit? Or everything is tentative at best until JB comes in with a final say? Whichever it is, it seems JB didn't have a relationship with Dior in the first place.

In fact, if he is hands off on recruiting, and conduct practices kind of remotely, he may not even have relationships with his players (the way he did in his earlier years). The lack of relationships may be why he has no issue with criticizing his players harshly in public. He is more the overlord, the day to day coaching are done by assistants.

This system may have been created out of necessity, to allow him to still coach at this age without being too taxing on him. Yet it created a disconnect. He has the assistants running things, and the assistants are operating while looking over their shoulders doing what they think JB wants them to do, not what they think should be done. They are tugboats pulling the big ship in different directions, while JB is in his cabin, looking at a screen of a cam pointing to the steering wheel.

So may be the issue is not JB has too tight of a strangle on everything, its the opposite, he has half way let go out of necessity and the end result is ugly.

This is just all extrapolation, I don't know any fact. Nor do any of you LOL.

 

[Sudano]

Because. We have not been the HC of the Syracuse Basketball program for 45 years, Went to 5 F4, Won a National Championship, and won over 1000 games. Should I stay on the court with all of his accolades and accomplishments or move off the court for everything he has done and been for the University and the community.

That's what Kodak said.
That's not a realistic look at the last 10 yrs. What are those stats?

 

[kcsu]

LOL I struggled to find the right thread to post this because there are like 50 running threads with the same sort of discussions at the same time.

I wonder if the current state of the basketball program is caused by a person (JB) or because of a system set up to fail over time.

The reason I am saying this is I don't think JB coaches the same way as others. I remember an interview of JB a few years ago, in his office, and he was asked if it's a challenge to still coach as his age. He sat down and pointed to a row of big screen monitors in his office, and told the interviewer that technology is great, that technology has allowed him to watch the practices from up here, to keep an eye on what's going on down there.

We also know while coaches like Calipari steps in personally early on in recruiting to build a relationship with a recruit and his parents, JB doesn't. His assistants do most of the recruiting and he comes in at the end as a closer. Because of that he doesn't really have relationships with the recruits, when an assistant leaves (Hop) the impact on recruiting can be devastating. When Dior Johnson decommitted JB said publicly he never personally offered. What does this mean? Didn't the CUSE offered DJ before he could initially commit? Or everything is tentative at best until JB comes in with a final say? Whichever it is, it seems JB didn't have a relationship with Dior in the first place.

In fact, he is is hands off on recruiting, and conduct practices kind of remotely, he may not even have relationships with his players (like he did in his earlier years). The lack of relationships may be why he has no issue with criticizing his players harshly in public. He is more the overlord, the day to day coaching are done by assistants.

This system may have been created out of necessity, to allow him to still coach at this age without being too taxing on him. Yet it created a disconnect. He has the assistants running things, and the assistants are operating while looking over their shoulders doing what they think JB wants them to do, not what they think should be done. They are tugboats pulling the big ship in different directions, while JB is in his cabin, looking at a monitor of the steering wheel.

So may be the issue is not JB has too tight of a strangle on everything, its the opposite, he has half way let go out of necessity and the end result is ugly.

This is just all extrapolation, I don't know any fact. Nor do any of you LOL.

When Jim lost Hop he lost his most important asset. Things have never been the same and sans one great run with Hops players have been on a steady decline ever since. JBs best days behind him. His mismanagement of recruiting, the roster and the National perception of Syracuse basketball is undeniable. SU basketball hit an iceberg the day Hop left.
On a positive note IF Kadary Frank Woody Edwards and Bras return and our 5 star lives up to his ratings we have the pieces to give the Old Boy one more dance.
I hope that Jim coaches these last games and the ACC tournament with his mind focused on next year. This off season is critical.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I do not understand why anybody would be ok with AG or Guerrier transferring. Nonsensical. Irrational. Ridiculous.

They would be fine as pieces, not focal points.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It's loyalty that he has had and shown for us. So we should hold it for him. JB has earned the right to go out when he want's to and JW knows this and will allow it.

So, if there were 2 SU-.500 seasons and JB wants to stay, he stays? What is the threshold.

 

[Cuserulz]

Our AD needs to step in. Part of being a person in high power, you need to be able to have to make difficult decisions. Wild hack you’re on the clock.

The AD needs to go if he won't do his job, which is to maintain the viability of SU Athletics. We'll let the new AD choose his own Head Basketball Coach. That may be the ultimate solution.