Going to miss Jimmy when he is gone

[Alsacs]

Syracuse has had maybe one class in its history that would qualify as “great” by this definition (1986). That probably ties Syracuse for after sixth all time after duke unc Kansas UCLA and Kentucky. If that’s what you want, you are going to be forever disappointed.

2007 class was ranked 2nd in the nation and started the second golden generation.
2010 class was 4th in the nation.

We did well in recruiting thanks to Rob Murphy.

 

[Eric15]

This baffles me. Do you seriously not care what the reason might be for the 5th year of a bubble?

I could understand the sentiment and doubt that was around last April. Program looked in possible decline. Poor season by SU standards and left out of the NCAAT. And the incoming class didn't seem to be highly sought after.

But now the statement of wanting new blood just seems like hater speak because the state of the future of the program is extremely bright.

Boeheim owns these sanctions and their consequences. They happened on his watch. He's the CEO of the program.

If next year we're a 5-6 seed in the tourney and things are back to normal, then I'll want him to stay. If we're teetering on the bubble again for the 5th consecutive year, I will personally want to go in another direction. It's nothing personal towards him -- it's just a reasonable conclusion based on results. I said in this very thread that he's one of the most important people in the history of the City of Syracuse and they should build a statue of him ASAP. That's a strange definition of someone being a "hater."

I will be rooting extremely hard for JB to succeed next year.

 

[Waltdods]

Townie wants to act like Georgetown has become a shell of itself since Thompson Senior.
The truth is Georgetown fell down from 1990 onward while JT was still there.
Ewing made them the top team in college basketball and then they had good years thru 1989 and then the program became not as dominant.

JT3 brought them back. They were top 4 seeds 6 times during his tenure as HC. His teams coached in the tournament and that is why he lost his job. Again Townie acts like Georgetown has become UNLV or DePaul when the truth is they weren’t bad. I would take Syracuse results but the truth is we miss the tournament too much for how we perceive our program.

Sure I agree with this. I’ve taken the pro-Georgetown side in many disputes with townie before and you’ve got the right side of history here. And Georgetown is for many reasons not a particularly good comparison to the situation Syracuse finds itself in. So I don’t want to make this about any particular situation, all of which are multi-faceted.

But the general point is this: even today, boeheim is in, say, the 85th percentile of coaches. (I’d probably put him a touch higher, you might put him a little lower.) Finding a replacement, even when you’re willing to spend money, who is as good is far from a guarantee.

Even looking at your list, I think every one of these programs other than Louisville went through at least one bust before they found a good coach. Escherick, guthridge, Sampson, etc.

Louisville is the exception that proves the rule - they got a proven, championship pedigree coach with deep ties in their state. If you can do that, it’s obviously a huge win, but there aren’t a lot of rick Pitinos lying around. I mean, the guy who is to some extent comparable right now is billy Donovan (big east ties, won titles in the NCAA, seems like there’s a good chance he bombs out of the nba). If we can get him, you take him immediately. But that’s not going to be what’s on the table.

I don’t want to overstate this. I wanted Hopkins to take over. I’m cautiously optimistic that the program will be fine in the long run. But people wanting boeheim to go because they’re tired of only winning 65 percent of games are taking a massive gamble that could end terribly.

 

[Waltdods]

2007 class was ranked 2nd in the nation and started the second golden generation.
2010 class was 4th in the nation.

We did well in recruiting thanks to Rob Murphy.

Sure that class was great, and I thought about it. But the best player was Greene, who was ranked about where bazely will end up, and Franco’s post to which I was responding was talking down bazely, so it’s hard to see how a class headlined by a comparable player could count as “great” under his (admittedly silly) definition.

 

[Alsacs]

Sure I agree with this. I’ve taken the pro-Georgetown side in many disputes with townie before and you’ve got the right side of history here. And Georgetown is for many reasons not a particularly good comparison to the situation Syracuse finds itself in. So I don’t want to make this about any particular situation, all of which are multi-faceted.

But the general point is this: even today, boeheim is in, say, the 85th percentile of coaches. (I’d probably put him a touch higher, you might put him a little lower.) Finding a replacement, even when you’re willing to spend money, who is as good is far from a guarantee.

Even looking at your list, I think every one of these programs other than Louisville went through at least one bust before they found a good coach. Escherick, guthridge, Sampson, etc.

Louisville is the exception that proves the rule - they got a proven, championship pedigree coach with deep ties in their state. If you can do that, it’s obviously a huge win, but there aren’t a lot of rick Pitinos lying around. I mean, the guy who is to some extent comparable right now is billy Donovan (big east ties, won titles in the NCAA, seems like there’s a good chance he bombs out of the nba). If we can get him, you take him immediately. But that’s not going to be what’s on the table.

I don’t want to overstate this. I wanted Hopkins to take over. I’m cautiously optimistic that the program will be fine in the long run. But people wanting boeheim to go because they’re tired of only winning 65 percent of games are taking a massive gamble that could end terribly.

It’s not the 65% winning percentage it’s the consistent sloppy offense, and how we are the most predictable team in college basketball and don’t do stuff differently.

We play the same against Duke that we do against Cornell.

If this was 2008 I wouldn’t want change. It’s 2018. The guy needs to be more active every year now.
Hop was doing a lot.

As long as the next coach isn’t GMac I will consider it a win.

 

[dan7800]

I’ve taken the pro-Georgetown side in many disputes

Reported

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Boeheim owns these sanctions and their consequences. They happened on his watch. He's the CEO of the program.

If next year we're a 5-6 seed in the tourney and things are back to normal, then I'll want him to stay. If we're teetering on the bubble again for the 5th consecutive year, I will personally want to go in another direction. It's nothing personal towards him -- it's just a reasonable conclusion based on results. I said in this very thread that he's one of the most important people in the history of the City of Syracuse and they should build a statue of him ASAP. That's a strange definition of someone being a "hater."

I will be rooting extremely hard for JB to succeed next year.

Yes, JB is the CEO and is responsible. But our being on the bubble this year isn't just sanctions, there are also the defections of TT and Thorpe, and the injury to Sid. Without that it's reasonable to think SU would be 2-3 games better and talking seed. While the defections can be somewhat attributed to JB, he is taking that out of the equation in future years by going back to the program and developmental kids.

I don't mean to identify you as a "hater", just that right now the items that looked like real reasons to me for change -ie a bleak future due to poor recruiting - don't exist. When you want change based on results and not reasons, you don't allow for extenuating circumstances. What if there is a rash of fluke injuries, a van accident or terrorist attack? Nothing matters but results?

 

[bpo57]

The reality is JB will be here until his son is gone unless some shoe were to drop off the court or he decides physically he can't do it anymore. SU is not going to make him leave early just because we are NIT bound for a year or two (not predicting that btw).

 

[Townie72]

Townie wants to act like Georgetown has become a shell of itself since Thompson Senior.
The truth is Georgetown fell down from 1990 onward while JT was still there.
Ewing made them the top team in college basketball and then they had good years thru 1989 and then the program became not as dominant.

JT3 brought them back. They were top 4 seeds 6 times during his tenure as HC. His teams choked in the tournament and that is why he lost his job. Again Townie acts like Georgetown has become UNLV or DePaul when the truth is they weren’t bad. I would take Syracuse results but the truth is we miss the tournament too much for how we perceive our program.

Indiana hired Sampson who was successful at Oklahoma. He cheated that is what killed that program till
Crean brought it back. Crean brought talent but couldn’t coach that talent well.

Indiana has been passed by Michigan State in the Big Ten hierarchy.

With our facilities, fanbase, and location I am confident Syracuse will be fine. Again we miss the tournament 2-3 times a decade.
That isn’t a standard that should be that difficult for the next HC to achieve.
7 appearances per decade.

So you are confident?

Well that's a relief.

 

[Alsacs]

So you are confident?

Well that's a relief.

I actually look at what has happened and don’t talk without looking at facts.
You think Indiana and Georgetown have been dead programs.
They haven’t.
You also ignore the fact Syracuse doesn’t make the tournament every year. We miss it a lot more than you realize.
You also ignore the fact Syracuse has a giant fanbase,good recruiting base, great conference affiliation. The job is more appealing than you think.
The Butler coach left for Ohio State in the summer and he has taken over for Thad Matta who got stale and the program is already back in the top 15.

You think only JB can do it. Sorry
I don’t think that.

 

[TexanMark]

Lot's of folks rightly so have given credit for JB and ESPN for creating Cuse as a national power...I offer up the Dome and crowds of 25-33k for also creating the buzz. The local fan really helped to fill the place which created a visual on TV unlike any other school.

 

[bhallsyrfan1]

Do people really think anyone but Gerry will be the next head coach?

 

[Alsacs]

Do people really think anyone but Gerry will be the next head coach?

Why?
What has he shown to be given the keys to the job?

I give GMac credit for getting Sidibe it helps alienate worrying over recruiting but the guy should not get a top 10-15 job just because he played here.

If he wants the job find a HC job and prove you can do it. JB will be gone in 4-5 years and if he proves it then fine. If he stays on the bench the next 4-5 years he better not be the next HC.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So you are confident?

Well that's a relief.

You're not?

Well, that's a concern...

 

[Dcuse]

It’s not the 65% winning percentage it’s the consistent sloppy offense, and how we are the most predictable team in college basketball and don’t do stuff differently.

We play the same against Duke that we do against Cornell.

If this was 2008 I wouldn’t want change. It’s 2018. The guy needs to be more active every year now.
Hop was doing a lot.

As long as the next coach isn’t GMac I will consider it a win.

Was kinda wondering how long this thread would go before you got your digs in on him. I predicted one page earlier so it seems like you have warmed up to him just a little.

 

[721Comstock]

Syracuse basketball is the golden goose. They will make sure it remains top quality.

Uh, no. It is not.

Repeat after me - "Football drives the bus."

The fact that we have an excellent hoops program that is very profitable is the icing on the cake.
Football is the cake.

That said, SU will HAVE TO pay market rate for whomever comes after JB.
And they will, because it's not like we can't afford to now, with that ACC coin rolling in.

 

[SUFan44]

Uh, no. It is not.

Repeat after me - "Football drives the bus."

The fact that we have an excellent hoops program that is very profitable is the icing on the cake.
Football is the cake.

That said, SU will HAVE TO pay market rate for whomever comes after JB.
And they will, because it's not like we can't afford to now, with that ACC coin rolling in.

And let me fill you in on a little secret. Until we get good at football, the cake is burnt and inedible.

Basketball is a driver for marketability, PR and all of the other intangible things that Syracuse University needs. Football isn't there yet and could never get there.

SU knows that basketball is the most important piece of the puzzle and will treat it as such. Might not be the most financially important, but to a lot of alums -- especially those younger ones -- it is.

 

[Alsacs]

And let me fill you in on a little secret. Until we get good at football, the cake is burnt and inedible.

Basketball is a driver for marketability, PR and all of the other intangible things that Syracuse University needs. Football isn't there yet and could never get there.

SU knows that basketball is the most important piece of the puzzle and will treat it as such. Might not be the most financially important, but to a lot of alums -- especially those younger ones -- it is.

We get more in Tv money from football than we profit from basketball.
Basketball at SU is one of the few real money makers nationally because of the size of the Dome but football generates the TV dollars.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Lot's of folks rightly so have given credit for JB and ESPN for creating Cuse as a national power...I offer up the Dome and crowds of 25-33k for also creating the buzz. The local fan really helped to fill the place which created a visual on TV unlike any other school.

This +1000. The fans and the dome became the biggest recruiting tool. ESPN allowed the whole country to see what we had here.

 

[rrlbees]

Do people really think anyone but Gerry will be the next head coach?

I think he will be.

 

[Eric15]

Do people really think anyone but Gerry will be the next head coach?

Ugh that would be such a stupid move.

 

[MikeSU02]

Be ready for it. The stars are becoming aligned.

If GMac is anointed, they should fire the AD and anyone else involved.

 

[tbonezone]

won't happen. if little gerry has any smarts he will learn from mike hopkins mistake and leave the nest before he's 50 and prove he can fly on his own . build your own success and then we can talk.

 

[br801]

Uh oh, this thread is about to go into orbit.

 

[MikeSU02]

Uh oh, this thread is about to go into orbit.

We hit the third rail of Cuse bball topics - GMac.