How Good Should The Program Be Yearly?

NYCorange

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#1
So I've been thinking about the state of the program and my sense that we've underachieved over the past 5 years or so. But that belief begs the question of how highly we SHOULD be achieving. And I was curious as to everyone here's opinion? Obviously Boeheim has built the program from relative obscurity into being a powerhouse. But if you remove the coach from the conversation, and just look at the facilities, fan support, finances, school investment, conference, recruiting grounds, program reputation/brand, academics, weather, etc etc etc. How good should we be year after year? (And again, it goes without saying that Boeheim has influenced many of the above factors)

My personal belief is that we should be somewhere between top 5 (on the high end) and top 15 (on the lower end) most years, with outliers in either direction. Obviously you evaluate this with some combination of regular and post season success.

So my feeling is that over the past 5 years we've been a little outside the top 25 on average when you consider both of those things. The sanctions we were under explain some of it or sure, but either way it's been disappointing.

Thoughts?
 

OrangeDW

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#2
So I've been thinking about the state of the program and my sense that we've underachieved over the past 5 years or so. But that belief begs the question of how highly we SHOULD be achieving. And I was curious as to everyone here's opinion? Obviously Boeheim has built the program from relative obscurity into being a powerhouse. But if you remove the coach from the conversation, and just look at the facilities, fan support, finances, school investment, conference, recruiting grounds, program reputation/brand, academics, weather, etc etc etc. How good should we be year after year?

My personal belief is that we should be somewhere between top 5 (on the high end) and top 15 (on the lower end) most years, with outliers in either direction. Obviously you evaluate this with some combination of regular and post season success.

So my feeling is that over the past 5 years we've been a little outside the top 25 on average when you consider both of those things.

Thoughts?
What we were from 1984 to 2014.
 

NYCorange

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#4
What we were from 1984 to 2014.
But things change obviously. UCONN, for example, can't reasonably think they're as solid a program as they were in the early-mid 2000's. So are we still the same program we were from 1985 to 2014?
 

OrangeDW

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#5
But things change obviously. UCONN, for example, can't reasonably think they're as solid a program as they were in the early-mid 2000's. So are we still the same program we were from 1985 to 2014?
Now that probation is over, we should be.

We still play in the best league, get the biggest crowds, have some of the best facilities, are close enough to many prime recruiting grounds, have one of the best names and traditions in the sport, and have a hall of fame coach.
 

GooseMutt

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#6
So I've been thinking about the state of the program and my sense that we've underachieved over the past 5 years or so. But that belief begs the question of how highly we SHOULD be achieving. And I was curious as to everyone here's opinion? Obviously Boeheim has built the program from relative obscurity into being a powerhouse. But if you remove the coach from the conversation, and just look at the facilities, fan support, finances, school investment, conference, recruiting grounds, program reputation/brand, academics, weather, etc etc etc. How good should we be year after year? (And again, it goes without saying that Boeheim has influenced many of the above factors)

My personal belief is that we should be somewhere between top 5 (on the high end) and top 15 (on the lower end) most years, with outliers in either direction. Obviously you evaluate this with some combination of regular and post season success.

So my feeling is that over the past 5 years we've been a little outside the top 25 on average when you consider both of those things. The sanctions we were under explain some of it or sure, but either way it's been disappointing.

Thoughts?
The sanctions were big but worse was the uncertainty of who would be coaching Boeheim or Hop. Hop had his own ideas but deferred and recruited the guys Boeheim wanted.

There were guys that wanted to play for Boeheim and some loyal to Hop, some of those he has now. Had he remained here maybe others too.
This period of uncertainty hurt us.

Disclaimer I am not responsible for my comments
 
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#9
We have a lot of things that determine what makes a lot of these top teams what they are . Something like what Kentucky does in a lot of ways in terms of biggest crowds, good to great bball facilities with top talent in the northeast. Also play in arguably the best league in America.
when Jim boehiem does decide to retire if done right and I have alot a confidence in wildhack we have potential to be better than we've been in a long time
 

OrangeDW

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#11
But things change obviously. UCONN, for example, can't reasonably think they're as solid a program as they were in the early-mid 2000's. So are we still the same program we were from 1985 to 2014?
And I should add that the current ACC is similar to the 2006-2013 Big East.

2006-2013, we won the regular season title twice, played in the BET finals three times and won it once, and went 92-48 in the league.

Middle of the pack and around .500: 2 times
15+ wins: 2 times
10(in a year of 16 games)-12 wins: 4 times

I feel like that’s the level we should be at.
 

SBU72

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#12
So I've been thinking about the state of the program and my sense that we've underachieved over the past 5 years or so. But that belief begs the question of how highly we SHOULD be achieving. And I was curious as to everyone here's opinion? Obviously Boeheim has built the program from relative obscurity into being a powerhouse. But if you remove the coach from the conversation, and just look at the facilities, fan support, finances, school investment, conference, recruiting grounds, program reputation/brand, academics, weather, etc etc etc. How good should we be year after year? (And again, it goes without saying that Boeheim has influenced many of the above factors)

My personal belief is that we should be somewhere between top 5 (on the high end) and top 15 (on the lower end) most years, with outliers in either direction. Obviously you evaluate this with some combination of regular and post season success.

So my feeling is that over the past 5 years we've been a little outside the top 25 on average when you consider both of those things. The sanctions we were under explain some of it or sure, but either way it's been disappointing.

Thoughts?
When you say top 5, do you mean in the nation? Year in and year out? If so you (and many others ) are delusional. And taking the coach out of the equation even more so. People constantly want to say that SU is "blue blood" of college basketball and it just ain't so. They are not a destination program for any coach other than alumni. Recruiting can be good with occasion great. Has SU ever gotten more than 1 top 20 recruit in a year. More than 2 McD AA in a year? Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan or Michigan St, UNC dominate recruiting every year. Fans would LIKE to be top 5 all the time but ain't going to happen. Top 25 is more realistic. Top 5 in the ACC? Not every year. Just wait for reality to set in when JB retires. See what kind of coach SU brings in. That will help you see where they really stand.
 

OrangeDW

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#13
When you say top 5, do you mean in the nation? Year in and year out? If so you (and many others ) are delusional. And taking the coach out of the equation even more so. People constantly want to say that SU is "blue blood" of college basketball and it just ain't so. They are not a destination program for any coach other than alumni. Recruiting can be good with occasion great. Has SU ever gotten more than 1 top 20 recruit in a year. More than 2 McD AA in a year? Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan or Michigan St, UNC dominate recruiting every year. Fans would LIKE to be top 5 all the time but ain't going to happen. Top 25 is more realistic. Top 5 in the ACC? Not every year. Just wait for reality to set in when JB retires. See what kind of coach SU brings in. That will help you see where they really stand.
One could argue that SU was a top 5 program from 86-91, and from ‘10-‘14.

It’s not the norm for us, but it has happened for significant stretches before.
 

tbonezone

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#14
competing for conference titles. competing for conference tourney championships. do that and the NCAA end works itself out. at least there is no bubble talk.
 

MadNY3

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#15
What we were from 1984 to 2014.
So I've been thinking about the state of the program and my sense that we've underachieved over the past 5 years or so. But that belief begs the question of how highly we SHOULD be achieving. And I was curious as to everyone here's opinion? Obviously Boeheim has built the program from relative obscurity into being a powerhouse. But if you remove the coach from the conversation, and just look at the facilities, fan support, finances, school investment, conference, recruiting grounds, program reputation/brand, academics, weather, etc etc etc. How good should we be year after year? (And again, it goes without saying that Boeheim has influenced many of the above factors)

My personal belief is that we should be somewhere between top 5 (on the high end) and top 15 (on the lower end) most years, with outliers in either direction. Obviously you evaluate this with some combination of regular and post season success.

So my feeling is that over the past 5 years we've been a little outside the top 25 on average when you consider both of those things. The sanctions we were under explain some of it or sure, but either way it's been disappointing.

Thoughts?
One loss at home annually maximum.
 

Shenexon

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#23
I think JB has had a tough run over the past 5 years, though the final four run was a good statement by the team. Sanctions, uncertainty about JB's plans, the loss of Hopkins, and a lot of programs seeking talented players all have impacted SU and our basketball fortunes. I'd like to expect top 25 and sweet 16 every year...sometimes a final four or two. I'd really like to see another National Championship before JB retires. As for a coach...someone with charisma, honesty, passion, a flair for defense, and who connects well to the kids.
 

SBU72

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#24
One could argue that SU was a top 5 program from 86-91, and from ‘10-‘14.

It’s not the norm for us, but it has happened for significant stretches before.
86-91 maybe. 10-14 I don't think so. Prove your srguement with players, record and rankings
 


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