John Bol is likely staying

[Orangezoo]

I don't know that Symir is going to be a 'non-scorer'. Remember he was a 75th ranked recruit compared to 88th for Kadari and Howard #289, (per 24/7). He's not going to be the shooter Joe or Buddy is but that doesn't mean that he can't score. Check this out:

Analysis: How Symir Torrence Fits at Syracuse - Sports Illustrated Syracuse Orange News, Analysis and More

"Torrence is a true point guard who brings an attitude to the position. He plays with a chip on his shoulder, is a strong, physical guard and has above average length for a point guard. Torrence is adept at taking a defender off the dribble and getting into the lane. He can finish at the rim, hit a floater in the lane or set up his teammates for open shots. He is strong enough to finish through contact as well.

Make no mistake, while Torrence can score, he is a pass first point guard with strong court vision. He can run half court sets, lead a fast break, or break down a defense off the bounce.

As a jump shooter, Torrence is solid. He shot 37.5% from three point range as a freshman at Marquette, but that dipped to 13.9% as a sophomore. Torrence has good shooting form and showed the ability to make the outside shot as a high schooler. He can still work on this area but the truth regarding percentage is probably somewhere in the middle.

As a defender, Torrence is physical on the ball, is quick in his lateral movement has the length to cause deflections. His strength should also help prevent opposing guards from getting into the lane. The skill set shows potential within the zone."

I'd love to get Howard back as a fourth guard. Everybody is looking for a place to start. We don't have one. He obviously didn't find one at South Alabama. he would know his role here. I think he's be a perfect fit.

Which means you have a core 8 guys (3/3/2) with 1 more who can ball for sure and good size for practice to round things out.

 

[CardiacCuse]

I don't know that Symir is going to be a 'non-scorer'. Remember he was a 75th ranked recruit compared to 88th for Kadari and Howard #289, (per 24/7). He's not going to be the shooter Joe or Buddy is but that doesn't mean that he can't score. Check this out:

Analysis: How Symir Torrence Fits at Syracuse - Sports Illustrated Syracuse Orange News, Analysis and More

"Torrence is a true point guard who brings an attitude to the position. He plays with a chip on his shoulder, is a strong, physical guard and has above average length for a point guard. Torrence is adept at taking a defender off the dribble and getting into the lane. He can finish at the rim, hit a floater in the lane or set up his teammates for open shots. He is strong enough to finish through contact as well.

Make no mistake, while Torrence can score, he is a pass first point guard with strong court vision. He can run half court sets, lead a fast break, or break down a defense off the bounce.

As a jump shooter, Torrence is solid. He shot 37.5% from three point range as a freshman at Marquette, but that dipped to 13.9% as a sophomore. Torrence has good shooting form and showed the ability to make the outside shot as a high schooler. He can still work on this area but the truth regarding percentage is probably somewhere in the middle.

As a defender, Torrence is physical on the ball, is quick in his lateral movement has the length to cause deflections. His strength should also help prevent opposing guards from getting into the lane. The skill set shows potential within the zone."

I'd love to get Howard back as a fourth guard. Everybody is looking for a place to start. We don't have one. He obviously didn't find one at South Alabama. he would know his role here. I think he's be a perfect fit.

If Torrence scores well ...it will break the trend of what he has dine thus far...but it certainly possible.

Regarding Howard, I realize the chances of finding such a player are not large, but my preference would be to find a player who could maybe be diamond in the rough...who might actually by dangerous on offense, good shooter, driver etc...I just think Howard's ceiling is pretty low...

I get it that he is a good fit for 4th guard...I guess a lot of it is how much he would want to be back in Orange...if he really really wanted it...then maybe...

But I feel like this is a golden opp to get a player that wouldnt normally be there...out of 1200 (?) players in the portal...1 or 2 are bound to be overlooked/desperate etc diamonds in the rough with huge potential...

Baylor rotated 4 athletic scoring shooting guards and won the last nattty...a guard in that mold is what should be the target.

"playing the lotto" would be my preference with the 4th guard spot...we all know howard is going to be a solid backup...but nothing more. so not my preference for that spot. my logic.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't know that Symir is going to be a 'non-scorer'. Remember he was a 75th ranked recruit compared to 88th for Kadari and Howard #289, (per 24/7). He's not going to be the shooter Joe or Buddy is but that doesn't mean that he can't score. Check this out:

Analysis: How Symir Torrence Fits at Syracuse - Sports Illustrated Syracuse Orange News, Analysis and More

"Torrence is a true point guard who brings an attitude to the position. He plays with a chip on his shoulder, is a strong, physical guard and has above average length for a point guard. Torrence is adept at taking a defender off the dribble and getting into the lane. He can finish at the rim, hit a floater in the lane or set up his teammates for open shots. He is strong enough to finish through contact as well.

Make no mistake, while Torrence can score, he is a pass first point guard with strong court vision. He can run half court sets, lead a fast break, or break down a defense off the bounce.

As a jump shooter, Torrence is solid. He shot 37.5% from three point range as a freshman at Marquette, but that dipped to 13.9% as a sophomore. Torrence has good shooting form and showed the ability to make the outside shot as a high schooler. He can still work on this area but the truth regarding percentage is probably somewhere in the middle.

As a defender, Torrence is physical on the ball, is quick in his lateral movement has the length to cause deflections. His strength should also help prevent opposing guards from getting into the lane. The skill set shows potential within the zone."

I'd love to get Howard back as a fourth guard. Everybody is looking for a place to start. We don't have one. He obviously didn't find one at South Alabama. he would know his role here. I think he's be a perfect fit.

Why does Joe get called a shooter?
He shoots a career 38.5% from 2 and 32.8% from 3.

Torrence can easily match that if he gets the volume of shots Girard gets per game.

We need better than a Howard for a 4th guard.
Our issue is we don’t play the bench. So a 4th guard who could help us isn’t going to come here and have to be a lot better just to get the minutes Kadary got last year and if we got that that type of guard then Torrence wouldn’t play.

We have 40 PG and 5 SG minutes available.
For 2 players that could work but not 3.

 

[kcsu]

Symir is good. Hes going to surprise.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Why does Joe get called a shooter?
He shoots a career 38.5% from 2 and 32.8% from 3.

Torrence can easily match that if he gets the volume of shots Girard gets per game.

We need better than a Howard for a 4th guard.

So much wrong here.
First, the cheap JG3 shot. He is, of course, a shooter. NYS all time scoring leader. And generally the best indicator is free throw percentage. Joe is a shooter.

Second, more volume does not increase a persons percentage, the general rule is the opposite.

Third, Howard would be a near perfect 4th guard. Knows the system, would know his role, here for a year so no complications with our recruiting. Hope we get him.

That's pretty much 0-3. Either this is a trolling post or you really need coffee in the morning,

 

[Orangezoo]

Why does Joe get called a shooter?
He shoots a career 38.5% from 2 and 32.8% from 3.

Torrence can easily match that if he gets the volume of shots Girard gets per game.

We need better than a Howard for a 4th guard.
Our issue is we don’t play the bench. So a 4th guard who could help us isn’t going to come here and have to be a lot better just to get the minutes Kadary got last year and if we got that that type of guard then Torrence wouldn’t play.

We have 40 PG and 5 SG minutes available.
For 2 players that could work but not 3.

How many teams play 4 guards who also play a traditional 2G/2F/C lineup? We don't run 3 guard sets often and never really have unless you want to count guys like AG, Malachi and Paul Harris as guards in our system. I'm curious where all these other programs who run a traditional lineup are. And all of them in this portal madness who are going to have a 4th guard who gets good minutes playing in that model?

 

[Ringostar57]

McNamara Edelin Duany and Pace! = nc

86-87 Douglas Monroe Thompson Roe

 

[DCUNITED13]

McNamara Edelin Duany and Pace! = nc

86-87 Douglas Monroe Thompson Roe

Roe == OTC (Orange Traffic Cone). Guards have to be able to move side to side and penetrate. How I loved his bounce passes around the 3 point line (not). Drove me nuts. Good shooter but limited lateral movement. However, he did better at Maryland than expected. Also played pro in Europe I believe. What do I know, but we needed more from him against Illinois to make the Final Four with one of our best teams ever.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

To me...my own opinion...we just need Symir to be a point guard. He doesn't necessarily have to score for us. I think we'll have enough scoring this year at the 2,3 & 4 and putbacks/tips from Jesse with JG3 scoring a lil bit when he is in. I just want a playmaker who can set people up, control the pace and play some solid D at the top of the zone. I think he can do that this upcoming year and really come into his own the following year with JG3

 

[kirbivore]

 

[Gotothehole]

Symir is good. Hes going to surprise.

Why do you think so ? Did he start at Marquette?

 

[HOFCeluck]

JG3 ...more volume

Whoah whoah talk about “cheap shots” buddy

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Why do you think so ? Did he start at Marquette?

You can’t always tell though. Elijah Hughes only averaged 7 ppg before coming to SU, and that was at East Carolina no less.

The staff has a pretty good track record when it comes to bringing in transfers. We haven’t had many duds.

 

[Gotothehole]

You can’t always tell though. Elijah Hughes only averaged 7 ppg before coming to SU, and that was at East Carolina no less.

The staff has a pretty good track record when it comes to bringing in transfers. We haven’t had many duds.

Most of them started right? What transfer did we bring in that did not start?

 

[NovaOrange]

I just can't get behind 50 percent of these posts. People act like there is no way a young kid can approve year after year. If people where to judge me based of my D2 tape from 1st year to junior year as a safety they would have sworn I was a different person. Love certain people on this board but dear lord the other half haven't played a damn meaningful snap at any level and it's like listening to Skip Bayless. As an athlete your body is transforming with the conditioning program that is a 100 times better in college than high school obviously and your learning how to be great against the best of the best. Give the freaking kid a chance instead of being a keyboard warrior....I'm sure he will surprise you. I for one am super pumped he is coming back

 

[HOFCeluck]

I just can't get behind 50 percent of these posts. People act like there is no way a young kid can approve year after year. If people where to judge me based of my D2 tape from 1st year to junior year as a safety they would have sworn I was a different person. Love certain people on this board but dear lord the other half haven't played a damn meaningful snap at any level and it's like listening to Skip Bayless. As an athlete your body is transforming with the conditioning program that is a 100 times better in college than high school obviously and your learning how to be great against the best of the best. Give the freaking kid a chance instead of being a keyboard warrior...I'm sure he will surprise you. I for one am super pumped he is coming back

FWIW I think 99 percent of posters here would be thrilled if Symir and JBA made great improvements here.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

I just can't get behind 50 percent of these posts. People act like there is no way a young kid can approve year after year. If people where to judge me based of my D2 tape from 1st year to junior year as a safety they would have sworn I was a different person. Love certain people on this board but dear lord the other half haven't played a damn meaningful snap at any level and it's like listening to Skip Bayless. As an athlete your body is transforming with the conditioning program that is a 100 times better in college than high school obviously and your learning how to be great against the best of the best. Give the freaking kid a chance instead of being a keyboard warrior...I'm sure he will surprise you. I for one am super pumped he is coming back

I think the greatest impediment to JBA being a good player is him not having the true, deep belief that he can be a good player. Which is why i keep hoping (out loud) that he goes to a camp and gets some 'foreign/external' voices and hype in his system. This is a kid who didn't start in high school, and sometimes seems to be 'just enjoying the experience.* I'm going to be really goofy and stupid here and say that it's like a puppy who is just super-super grateful to get in the car and go for a ride.

I think he can be productive. In the right role, but mostly with the mindset that he can and should be good. He's got a nice jumper, he's springy and rangy and athletic. Reminds me of Donte Greene. I always thought installing him at center was ridiculous, but hey...



*These are the most superficial perceptions possible.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I was told this was a JBA thread...

 

[Orangezoo]

You can’t always tell though. Elijah Hughes only averaged 7 ppg before coming to SU, and that was at East Carolina no less.

The staff has a pretty good track record when it comes to bringing in transfers. We haven’t had many duds.

He also played for a coach that wasn't getting the job done and basically leaned on guys playing hero ball, not to mention the Hauser brothers jumping ship. Programs that aren't in good shape or being well run make it hard to get too good of a read on a kid if he isn't getting a decent shot.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

I just can't get behind 50 percent of these posts. People act like there is no way a young kid can approve year after year. If people where to judge me based of my D2 tape from 1st year to junior year as a safety they would have sworn I was a different person. Love certain people on this board but dear lord the other half haven't played a damn meaningful snap at any level and it's like listening to Skip Bayless. As an athlete your body is transforming with the conditioning program that is a 100 times better in college than high school obviously and your learning how to be great against the best of the best. Give the freaking kid a chance instead of being a keyboard warrior...I'm sure he will surprise you. I for one am super pumped he is coming back

I guess I'll bite...it's not like it's going to get easier in the ACC and at syracuse for him compared to marquette. Usually when players struggle at a place, they usually move down in competition and conferences. He went up. I would heavily agree with the transfer if he had to redshirt this year like a lot of our previous successful transfers. I'm just a little bullish on a guard who really isn't a threat to score on the perimeter but he doesn't really have to with this team

 

[OrangeYaGladi]

I guess I'll bite...it's not like it's going to get easier in the ACC and at syracuse for him compared to marquette. Usually when players struggle at a place, they usually move down in competition and conferences. He went up. I would heavily agree with the transfer if he had to redshirt this year like a lot of our previous successful transfers. I'm just a little bullish on a guard who really isn't a threat to score on the perimeter but he doesn't really have to with this team

your bullishness is so little, in fact, that it approaches Bearousity

 

[Alsacs]

So much wrong here.
First, the cheap JG3 shot. He is, of course, a shooter. NYS all time scoring leader. And generally the best indicator is free throw percentage. Joe is a shooter.

Second, more volume does not increase a persons percentage, the general rule is the opposite.

Third, Howard would be a near perfect 4th guard. Knows the system, would know his role, here for a year so no complications with our recruiting. Hope we get him.

That's pretty much 0-3. Either this is a trolling post or you really need coffee in the morning,

Being NYS alltime scorer literally has nothing to do prove he is a good shooter.

It’s a stat to show he is a good scorer. That is totally different.
So that point does nothing to prove the point he is a shooter. When his percentages again in college tell a different story.

Volume tells what a player’s true shooting percentage actually is.
Volume allows a player to enhance their percentages playing more and getting more shots.

Thus if Torrence gets the minutes and shots Joe has gotten his first two years all my statement is saying he could match the stats.

Howard wouldn’t be a good 4th guard Just because he knows the system.
We need a quality 4th option so if the starting PG struggled and Torrence struggled we have a chance to win.
Washington couldn’t get minutes on an NIT team if he wants to play he isn’t coming here.
Having an actual PG is kinda important but we as a fanbase don’t care about that.

Great teams have good PG play not average PG play.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Being NYS alltime scorer literally has nothing to do prove he is a good shooter.

It’s a stat to show he is a good scorer. That is totally different.
So that point does nothing to prove the point he is a shooter. When his percentages again in college tell a different story.

Volume tells what a player’s true shooting percentage actually is.
Volume allows a player to enhance their percentages playing more and getting more shots.

Thus if Torrence gets the minutes and shots Joe has gotten his first two years all my statement is saying he could match the stats.

Howard wouldn’t be a good 4th guard Just because he knows the system.
We need a quality 4th option so if the starting PG struggled and Torrence struggled we have a chance to win.
Washington couldn’t get minutes on an NIT team if he wants to play he isn’t coming here.
Having an actual PG is kinda important but we as a fanbase don’t care about that.

Great teams have good PG play not average PG play.

Still really odd to me that NYS allows the records to include a 5th year of high school scoring. Takes away from the guys who only played 4. And this isn't a shot at Joe. There are multiple others in the top 20 who played 5 years.

 

[Orangezoo]

Being NYS alltime scorer literally has nothing to do prove he is a good shooter.

It’s a stat to show he is a good scorer. That is totally different.
So that point does nothing to prove the point he is a shooter. When his percentages again in college tell a different story.

Volume tells what a player’s true shooting percentage actually is.
Volume allows a player to enhance their percentages playing more and getting more shots.

Thus if Torrence gets the minutes and shots Joe has gotten his first two years all my statement is saying he could match the stats.

Howard wouldn’t be a good 4th guard Just because he knows the system.
We need a quality 4th option so if the starting PG struggled and Torrence struggled we have a chance to win.
Washington couldn’t get minutes on an NIT team if he wants to play he isn’t coming here.
Having an actual PG is kinda important but we as a fanbase don’t care about that.

Great teams have good PG play not average PG play.

So how would you approach it differently then if you were the coach? Go back in time, sanctions included. How do you fix it? Since it's not gonna work?

 

[Jake]

So much wrong here.
First, the cheap JG3 shot. He is, of course, a shooter. NYS all time scoring leader. And generally the best indicator is free throw percentage. Joe is a shooter.

Second, more volume does not increase a persons percentage, the general rule is the opposite.

Third, Howard would be a near perfect 4th guard. Knows the system, would know his role, here for a year so no complications with our recruiting. Hope we get him.

That's pretty much 0-3. Either this is a trolling post or you really need coffee in the morning,

I’m not a fan of bringing Washington back, but I agree with your general take.

Joe is a shooter. GMAC was a shooter. A White was a shooter. Put them all in an open gym and they each will dazzle you. Give each an open look and you’ll probably get the same pct. What separates their game pct is size and shot selection (AWhite hit a ton of well guarded shots because of his size).

Gmac took tough shots out of necessity (few other scoring options his Jr / Sr years).

AWhite took fewer forced shots because he had Gillon and Lydon. Helping to spread the floor. And forced very few, probably passed up more good shots that the number he forced.

Joe should shoot a higher percentage, but his shot selection (mental part of the game) is borderline horrible. He is flanked by great shooters. He should limit his game to higher pct shots. Especially next year.

But Joe is a shooter.