Marrone

[xc84]

I would have settled for 10 or 11 wins. With the first or second best team in the league that should be the expectation. Unless something is holding it back.

Btw what was Andy Luck's passer rating last season?

I think the Bills are now kicking themselves for not trading Kyle Orton for Andrew Luck who apparently was at the same level as Luck.

 

[OrangePA]

different sport but the only place where scotty bowman didn't win a hundred Cups was at buffalo where they made him the GM

lots of coaches could be good GMs but not at the same time.

putting myself in marrone's shoes here - you know you have the 4 million dollar out, you know how sick ralph wilson is before the season, you know that when he dies, you're going to cash in. you need to have a good enough year to get a job somewhere else, future consequences be damned. watkins did help them this year. vikings and lions games come to mind. it wasn't worth all the picks but if you're just looking to cash in 4 million and get another job, that pick helps quite a bit

i'm not saying marrone is lying - it's possible that russ brandon is so stupid that he thinks this leak makes marrone look bad even though it doesn't

but if i were looking to cash in and move on, i would like the watkins trade but I would pretend like I was against it to appeal to my next employer who might be worried that I supported such a terrile pick

"Machiavelli Millhouse"???

Wow.

I knew this guy was really smart - he's been telling me so for over ten years.

But I had no idea.

 

[Millhouse]

I think the Bills are now kicking themselves for not trading Kyle Orton for Andrew Luck who apparently was at the same level as Luck.

Kyle Orton's QB rating this year was better than Andrew Luck's 2013 season

I'm sure the eyeball test crowd will say that it's all because of a bad formula and never question their wrong opinion that Orton is the worst and that he's to blame for the bills offense.

I'm scared of the Bills interviewing Pep Hamilton. I think that offense hinders Luck, who is great and much better than his career NFL numbers would show. I'm sure plenty of people here would love to see a Stanford offense in buffalo just to p!ss me off

 

[Statesman1]

You've contributed to nearly half of the posts in this thread, all basically saying the same thing. It shouldn't take much effort for you to take a look at those.

1/2? You're math is a little rusty but ok I guess. Just having a little fun at Bills Fan's expense- and judging by some of the pointed name calling I'd say I've touched a nerve. Not quite sure how that makes me "emotional". Again, can you point out a specific example where I've been emotional? Or perhaps it's easier just to name call?

 

[Millhouse]

"Machiavelli Millhouse"???

Wow.

I knew this guy was really smart - he's been telling me so for over ten years.

But I had no idea.

i don't think you have to be that smart to go all in when you have a 4 million dollar bonus for finding another job in 2015

i understood their incentives to go all in on 2014 before anyone knew anything about that 4 million dollar out. everything that happened was because they had a dying owner and no one cared about the future.

maybe marrone did care about the future but russ brandon gave him 4 million reasons not to.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The same Mizzou team who didn't have their best player, a current stud NFL defensive lineman, available for that game? The same Mizzou team who went 5-7 and didn't qualify for a bowl game? What a feather in St. Doug's cap!!!

Was he an underdog in the game? Yep. Was it a road game against a better opponent? Yep. Good win, and one of the best for SU in years.

 

[wfschrec]

Kyle Orton's QB rating this year was better than Andrew Luck's 2013 season

I'm sure the eyeball test crowd will say that it's all because of a bad formula and never question their wrong opinion that Orton is the worst and that he's to blame for the bills offense.

I'm scared of the Bills interviewing Pep Hamilton. I think that offense hinders Luck, who is great and much better than his career NFL numbers would show. I'm sure plenty of people here would love to see a Stanford offense in buffalo just to p!ss me off

The OL was the reason for the poor offense not Orton, not sure why people don't see that. Orton has proven he can manage and win games, this team was very much like the Bears team he took to the playoffs. Whats worse is the leading receiver on that playoff Bears team was a washed-up Mushin Muhammed.

Luck just did finish with the best rating of his young career thus far and to be fair its not like the WR corps there is even close to what Buffalo has. The question would be could Hamilton leverage the talent in Buffalo? No idea however at Stanford he seemed to produce the appropriate results based on what he had at the skill positions. He had a solid running game, leveraged NFL caliber TEs and he did a great job with Hogan as his QB. For all intents and purposes Luck racked up 3500 yards throwing to TEs, RBs and a bunch of no name WRs his senior year.

 

[Millhouse]

The OL was the reason for the poor offense not Orton, not sure why people don't see that. Orton has proven he can manage and win games, this team was very much like the Bears team he took to the playoffs. Whats worse is the leading receiver on that playoff Bears team was a washed-up Mushin Muhammed.

Luck just did finish with the best rating of his young career thus far and to be fair its not like the WR corps there is even close to what Buffalo has. The question would be could Hamilton leverage the talent in Buffalo? No idea however at Stanford he seemed to produce the appropriate results based on what he had at the skill positions. He had a solid running game, leveraged NFL caliber TEs and he did a great job with Hogan as his QB. For all intents and purposes Luck racked up 3500 yards throwing to TEs, RBs and a bunch of no name WRs his senior year.

that's what scares me. the bills don't have fleener. they do have WR. luck has thrown a lot of TD to fleener at Stanford and Indy. hamilton just doesn't seem to fit what the bills have. they need a guy who can coach up a qb that has lots of WR and no TE

this whole marrone won 9 games with awful kyle orton is the type of thing that someone would say if they didn't watch any of the games. 2nd worst rushing offense by some expected points measure at pro football reference (complex play by play tally of expected points before and after each run)

 

[wfschrec]

that's what scares me. the bills don't have fleener. they do have WR. luck has thrown a lot of TD to fleener at Stanford and Indy. hamilton just doesn't seem to fit what the bills have. they need a guy who can coach up a qb that has lots of WR and no TE

I think he used Fleener because Fleener is exceptional .. he has never had a Watkins to work with. I mean he made TY Hilton a 1,000 yard guy (all 5'2" of him) ... that tells me enough.

 

[shandeezy7]

Not sure how that is relevant with respect to what the win means to the program or the athletes. What he did or didn't do afterwards is irrelevant. You beat a team in their house and the following year said team goes on to win the SEC east and you don't think the guys on the squad didn't pay attention to that?

You need to remove your emotion when thinking about this, whether or not Doug is a saint people can argue till the cows come home I really don't care. It was a good win (landmark is a true stretch) and then he left those are the only facts that matter. Please don't sound like statesman, just stick to the facts at hand, it was a pretty solid win over a rising program.

I'm not debating that it was a good win. It certainly was. But lets not pretend that it was a win over an SEC powerhouse when in reality it was a 5-7 team that didn't make a bowl game. What Mizzou did the following season is also irrelevant.

 

[longislandcuse]

The Marrone thing is whatever for me. I'm pretty meh over it. My hope is they bring in Bevell or Shanahan while retaining Schwartz as DC.

 

[xc84]

Kyle Orton's QB rating this year was better than Andrew Luck's 2013 season

I'm sure the eyeball test crowd will say that it's all because of a bad formula and never question their wrong opinion that Orton is the worst and that he's to blame for the bills offense.

I'm scared of the Bills interviewing Pep Hamilton. I think that offense hinders Luck, who is great and much better than his career NFL numbers would show. I'm sure plenty of people here would love to see a Stanford offense in buffalo just to p!ss me off

I have not said Orton was "the worst" and I don't know who has. I don't think he is great or even very good. He's "fair"...which (1) means he is nowhere near Andrew Luck (orangenirvanna was inferring he was but at least you understand his qb rating <> to his real "great" value) and (2) teams with "fair" QBs don't go very far.

Orton did a decent job especially given the situation. However, to get the next level and actually win a playoff game or 2, they need a much better QB. I'd say my assessment is the general consensus of him.

So who should the Bills grab as a QB (someone they actually have a chance at getting)?

 

[Millhouse]

I think he used Fleener because Fleener is exceptional .. he has never had a Watkins to work with. I mean he made TY Hilton a 1,000 yard guy (all 5'2" of him) ... that tells me enough.

could be. so much uncertainty though. they're pulling names out of hats. if they're going with random OC, i say go with Reich

 

[Millhouse]

I have not said Orton was "the worst" and I don't know who has. I don't think he is great or even very good. He's "fair"...which (1) means he is nowhere near Andrew Luck (orangenirvanna was inferring he was but at least you understand his qb rating <> to his real "great" value) and (2) teams with "fair" QBs don't go very far.

Orton did a decent job especially given the situation. However, to get the next level and actually win a playoff game or 2, they need a much better QB. I'd say my assessment is the general consensus of him.

So who should the Bills grab as a QB (someone they actually have a chance at getting)?

i think it's either manuel or cutler in a trade. barf.

 

[wfschrec]

could be. so much uncertainty though. they're pulling names out of hats. if they're going with random OC, i say go with Reich

I could live with Reich. How do you feel about Pat Shurmur?

 

[wfschrec]

i think it's either manuel or cutler in a trade. barf.

Why not trade away 8 years of #1 picks to draft Mariota

 

[longislandcuse]

i think it's either manuel or cutler in a trade. barf.

I really wouldn't mind Cutler. I think a change of scenery could do him well and with our defense if we can just score a few more points per game, we're probably a double digit win team.

No matter who the QB is, the offseason also needs to include some upgrades to the O-Line. We have 3 out of 5 spots filled but we need 2 guards or a guard and tackle if Glenn moves to guard.

If we did trade for Cutler would that eat up all our FA money? I know his deal is huge but I don't know what could be worked out to add him and a premier Guard or TE.

 

[BuffOrange]

I don't like any of these candidates. If the Marrone fiasco is making them rule out college guys, that's a mistake. I predict more punting on opponent's 40 next year.

 

[Millhouse]

I really wouldn't mind Cutler. I think a change of scenery could do him well and with our defense if we can just score a few more points per game, we're probably a double digit win team.

No matter who the QB is, the offseason also needs to include some upgrades to the O-Line. We have 3 out of 5 spots filled but we need 2 guards or a guard and tackle if Glenn moves to guard.

If we did trade for Cutler would that eat up all our FA money? I know his deal is huge but I don't know what could be worked out to add him and a premier Guard or TE.

i'm fine with giving cutler a test drive. i suspect it will fail but so would every other choice. manuel doesn't have to suck as much as he did either.

 

[OrangePA]

i don't think you have to be that smart to go all in when you have a 4 million dollar bonus for finding another job in 2015

i understood their incentives to go all in on 2014 before anyone knew anything about that 4 million dollar out. everything that happened was because they had a dying owner and no one cared about the future.

maybe marrone did care about the future but russ brandon gave him 4 million reasons not to.

To me it seems fairly simple.

The Bills really wanted Marrone.

He had other offers.

He was concerned about a change in ownership. He likely consulted others like Bill Parcells, who repeatedly experienced the pitfalls of being caught between two owners.

To alleviate Doug's legitimate concerns, the Bills offered him money and an out.

No skin off Ralph's nose.

 

[Millhouse]

To me it seems fairly simple.

The Bills really wanted Marrone.

He had other offers.

He was concerned about a change in ownership. He likely consulted others like Bill Parcells, who repeatedly experienced the pitfalls of being caught between two owners.

To alleviate Doug's legitimate concerns, the Bills offered him money and an out.

No skin off Ralph's nose.

I agree with all that. But it does create some pretty messed up incentives when you pay a guy to find another job. That coach is much more likely to have a short term focus. Maybe the Bills could've paid him in the event that he got fired within some timeframe following an ownership change instead of paying.

with a dying owner and 4 million dollars to walk away, they pretty much guaranteed themselves a short term stop gap coach. maybe they would've been better off hiring someone else who didn't demand that out. everyone loves continuity.

Some coaches might've played Manuel the last game. Judging by the national media who never watch buffalo, doing everything he can to win the last week was the right move for him.

It's all fascinating.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't like any of these candidates. If the Marrone fiasco is making them rule out college guys, that's a mistake. I predict more punting on opponent's 40 next year.

That stuff is such BS. You know how many teams punted less than Buffalo from the 40 in last year.

I'll save you the trouble, two, Green Bay and Washington. They had zero punts from the opponent 40 in last year.

You know how many had more, 24 teams, with two or more.

It's funny how the most strident are the most ignorant.

 

[BuffOrange]

That stuff is such BS. You know how many teams punted less than Buffalo from the 40 in last year.

I'll save you the trouble, two, Green Bay and Washington. They had zero punts from the opponent 40 in last year.

You know how many had more, 24 teams, with two or more.

It's funny how the most strident are the most ignorant.

Right, who can forget all the 4th down attempts in opponent's territory this year [crickets].
Buffalo was the #1 whipping boy of the NYT 4th down bot...
The 40 stat is attributable to the small sample of a single season & the lack of opportunity...I guess most of the dumb punts were from the 42; sorry for rounding down..
Not that the point was ever that other teams are good at that stuff anyways..

 

[orangenirvana]

I have not said Orton was "the worst" and I don't know who has. I don't think he is great or even very good. He's "fair"...which (1) means he is nowhere near Andrew Luck (orangenirvanna was inferring he was but at least you understand his qb rating <> to his real "great" value) and (2) teams with "fair" QBs don't go very far.

Orton did a decent job especially given the situation. However, to get the next level and actually win a playoff game or 2, they need a much better QB. I'd say my assessment is the general consensus of him.

So who should the Bills grab as a QB (someone they actually have a chance at getting)?

That's what I was inferring? Really?

Ugh, follow along slowly...

You: "Having one with a rating of 88 ain't going to get you 12-13 wins. The Colts are a great example of why a good QB is critical."

Me: I would have settled for 10 or 11 wins. BTW, what was Luck's passer rating last season?

I thought it was funny that you're using Luck as an example for why QB play is important while at the same time using passer rating as a measurement.

But then after realizing Luck's passer rating last season was lower than 88, it's "whoops! never mind - passer rating doesn't mean anything, look at this guy inferring Orton is as good as Luck haha!".

You're right in that having a QB with a rating of 88 is not likely going to get you 12-13 wins. That's even tough to pull off with a Top 2 defense like the Bills had.

But it should get you better than the 27th best offense.

 

[Millhouse]

That stuff is such BS. You know how many teams punted less than Buffalo from the 40 in last year.

I'll save you the trouble, two, Green Bay and Washington. They had zero punts from the opponent 40 in last year.

You know how many had more, 24 teams, with two or more.

It's funny how the most strident are the most ignorant.

that's not the only place on the field you can be stupid about punting.