Most pathetic game of the season

[Ghost]

That’s the thing. This year at least, you are 100% spot on. Buddy and Joe couldn’t defend Colgate’s guards in M2M let alone ACC guards. It’s a lazy take to say this team should go man.

I don't care much about the zone vs. m2m debate, as we play zone.

However, if we're being honest, there are some things worth noting:

They can't guard anyone in any kind of defense.

In the zone, in addition to not guarding, they seem easily tricked. Which leads to REALLY open threes, and because they can't stop passes, we end up in oodles of foul trouble and just really bad positions down low on defense. We're REALLY bad up top in the zone.

I mean, you lure JGIII into the lane, and kick it out, and by the time he figures out what's happening, it's all over.

At least in M2M, everyone has some accountability. It's not that hard to grasp as most players have played it their whole lives. Lose your man - go get 'em!!!!! In the zone, if you lose your man, and you're on this squad, the rule seems to be that you remain in an area and glance around a bit. Not great.

I mean, that's not how we usually play it, but it seems to be about where we are now.

 

[CaptainJ]

We retired John Wallace's number today. His sr year, we beat Kansas and Roy (they were a #1 seed) to go to the final four. second biggest game that JB and Roy have gone against each other. JB won the most important game as well. This game...not that an important a game.

Fully agree with you on that man. But then I thought it's kind of like remembering a great song on the radio a quarter of a century ago, vs replaying it on whatever device now. It lacks the energy, the life it had.

Specifically, this bit from Pink Floyd's epic "Shine On you Crazy Diamond" comes to mind:
And we'll bask in the shadow
Of yesterday's triumph
And sail on the steel breeze...
Come on you Boeheim and shine!!!!

 

[Ghost]

JB nailed it!

They didn't make shots in the first half, they made shots in the second half! Curses!!!!

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Roy studied with pagan monks in Mongolia to learn the ways and weaknesses of the 2-3 zone, and how to utilize its weaknesses against it. He returned to the United States a new man that found a better way

my little puggle could of scored 20 tonight. And he has no thumbs!

 

[kcsu]

Joe and Buddy are not good defensive players. Buddy is extremely slow, lacks athleticism and Joe is short and lacks athleticism. As a combo they are the weakest defensive pair of guards we have ever had. IF they get hot we can win NET points. However if like tonight they are cold we get destroyed.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

JB nailed it!

They didn't make shots in the first half, they made shots in the second half! Curses!!!!

oh, so we are lucky we didn’t lose by 40?

 

[UpstateSM]

The no call on Marek the first play of the game set the tone for the rest of it. Garbage

 

[CaptainJ]

Well that's depressing

The good news is that neuroplasticity in the brain and the ability to grow new grey matter is a relatively recent discovery. Before that, it was assumed it was impossible.

So maybe in like manner the Cuse could rebound(not sure if I intended the pun or not, was multitasking) and reach that dream land again. Again, Pink Floyd addresses the subject, this time in the song "High Hopes": (you guys and this game inspired me to listen to this for the first time in probably decades, so that's something I have to be grateful for)

Looking beyond the embers of bridges glowing behind us
To a glimpse of how green it was on the other side
Steps taken forwards but sleepwalking back again
Dragged by the force of some inner tide

At a higher altitude with flag unfurled
We reached the dizzy heights of that dreamed of world

Encumbered forever by desire and ambition
There's a hunger still unsatisfied
Our weary eyes still stray to the horizon
Though down this road we've been so many times

The grass was greener
The light was brighter
The taste was sweeter
The nights of wonder
With friends surrounded
The dawn mist glowing
The water flowing
The endless river

Forever and ever

 

[clayman32]

That’s the thing. This year at least, you are 100% spot on. Buddy and Joe couldn’t defend Colgate’s guards in M2M let alone ACC guards. It’s a lazy take to say this team should go man.

And your take is defeatist

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

And your take is defeatist

but it’s really very accurate

 

[orange79]

And your take is defeatist

Uh, yeah, no it's not.

 

[OrangeDW]

I was told on here in the past that defense is just about trying hard. Not about talent.

 

[clayman32]

Uh, yeah, no it's not.

Um, yeah it is. To say you can’t do something without even trying it is sort of the definition

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Um, yeah it is. To say you can’t do something without even trying it is sort of the definition

It’s not defeatist...it’s accurate assessment of the two worst defensive guards (who actually play a lot) in SU history

 

[CaptainJ]

I was told on here in the past that defense is just about trying hard. Not about talent.

The talent part I recall, but I think the first component was more of a system/process than just trying, per se. I'm going to avoid this zone argument though. This could get bloody and get another thread banned, then only the dead ones will be left. That is not good.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

The talent part I recall, but I think the first component was more of a system/process than just trying, per se.

has the system/process changed or are the kids not talented enough to play it?

 

[orange79]

Um, yeah it is. To say you can’t do something without even trying it is sort of the definition

To suggest you do something that hasn't been practiced to any extent or performed during a game for God knows how long is ridiculous. His post was not defeatist.

 

[CaptainJ]

has the system/process changed or are the kids not talented enough to play it?

Well played State Farm, well played. I'm staying out of this one though. It seems as futile as what I see when I see the supporters of each establishment party argue with each other.

 

[OrangeDW]

To suggest you do something that hasn't been practiced to any extent or performed during a game for God knows how long is ridiculous. His post was not defeatist.

Seriously? I guess my suggestion that I’ve been sitting on that we switch to running the freeze option at halftime of next years Clemson game is already shot. Damnit.

 

[Domedude3]

And your take is defeatist

And your take is defeatist

Um, yeah it is. To say you can’t do something without even trying it is sort of the definition

maybe we should throw a 1-3-1 next game then see how that works.

But in all seriousness, the press today showed everything you need to know about this team. Less athleticism than we’ve had in the past and the result was ineffective .

 

[OrangeDW]

has the system/process changed or are the kids not talented enough to play it?

We’re roughly where most prognosticators had us preseason, no?

For a few years we recruited big kids who could play defense, but couldn’t shoot, pass, or dribble.

Now we’re recruiting small, slow kids who can shoot and pass but can’t play defense.

We haven’t had a first round pick in a few years, a lottery pick in longer.(MCW in ‘13?)

We need better players.

 

[clayman32]

It’s not defeatist...it’s accurate assessment of the two worst defensive guards (who actually play a lot) in SU history

I agree they’re horrible defensively. And I think they’d be bad in m2m too. But to sit there and watch a clinic on zone offense be put on today (and also the previous 12 games in the acc) by Roy just feels helpless. Try something different. It might work, it might not

 

[OrangeDW]

maybe we should throw a 1-3-1 next game then see how that works.

But in all seriousness, the press today showed everything you need to know about this team. Less athleticism than we’ve had in the past and the result was ineffective .

I propose a different defense coming out of every TV timeout.

16 min - man to man
12 min - 1-3-1
8 min - 3 quarter court 1-2-2 back to a 3-2
4 min - box and 1

16 min - 3 quarter court 2-2-1 back to a trapping 2-3
12 min - trunk monkey 1-2-1-1 back to matchup zone
8 min - break out UNLV and Tark’s old amoeba
4 min - FULL COURT MAN TO MAN BABY!! SHOW THEM THAT WE HAVE THE MOST HEART!! Because that’s all it takes.

This will obviously keep the opponent off guard and have them in flummox the whole game. I’m so brilliant. I know more than Jimmy B!

 

[clayman32]

To suggest you do something that hasn't been practiced to any extent or performed during a game for God knows how long is ridiculous. His post was not defeatist.

JB says they practice m2m

 

[Scott11]

The two common laments we hear on this board are the refs were bad and the other team shot so well/we are so unlucky. But that’s not why we are headed to the NIT.
The truth of the matter is we give up huge points almost every game. We usually score enough to win. But our opponents usually shoot above their season average because their looks are so good. Today was a conga line of UNC layups and wide open three-pointers. Why aren’t they going to make a high percentage? I love buddy and joe but they are awful at the top of the zone. Awful. And the zone relies on coverage.
What worries me is how will the guards improve defensively? Joe and buddy always play hard but how do you improve height and athleticism? It is a real concern going forward for next year.
I felt strongly all year that Joe and buddy need to be spelled from time to time and are not equipped play 40 minutes. They are not great defenders to begin with and the more tired they get the more their defense will suffer. So going forward JB should consider getting Brycen at least five minutes for each starting guard to preserve their legs.
The other recurring theme is interior bigs foul trouble. And if it hasn’t improved by now I don’t understand how it will next year. God knows what the hell Marek was thinking when he basically ran into Anthony 90 feet from the basket.