Premier League

[Orangezoo]

There is no doubt right now the EPL is running 3rd or 4th in terms of being the top league in the world. La Liga and the Bundesliga are def above. Ligue 1 I would say could be considered even or a step slightly ahead with Serie A right there. I am thrilled my gunners are sitting in good position but besides a slightly stronger defensive midfield and defense overall there is little change. It is the EPL as a whole that has gotten weaker.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There is no doubt right now the EPL is running 3rd or 4th in terms of being the top league in the world. La Liga and the Bundesliga are def above. Ligue 1 I would say could be considered even or a step slightly ahead with Serie A right there. I am thrilled my gunners are sitting in good position but besides a slightly stronger defensive midfield and defense overall there is little change. It is the EPL as a whole that has gotten weaker.

It depends on how you define "top league". If you judge by the top 2 teams, then I agree. If you decide by the quality through the first 7 or 8 teams, then the Premier League is the best. Kind of like the old arguments about basketball conferences. Pre-ACC Big East was the deepest, even though you would find more frequent championship (cf. Champions League) contenders at the top of the other leagues (Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid = Duke, Kentucky in pre-ACC membership days).

 

[ImperialOrange]

So not such a great run-in after all. CFC wins the title. Top 4 are basically locked in.

Sorry about that

 

[creatorsgam]

It depends on how you define "top league". If you judge by the top 2 teams, then I agree. If you decide by the quality through the first 7 or 8 teams, then the Premier League is the best. Kind of like the old arguments about basketball conferences. Pre-ACC Big East was the deepest, even though you would find more frequent championship (cf. Champions League) contenders at the top of the other leagues (Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid = Duke, Kentucky in pre-ACC membership days).

Agreed. When the "usual suspects" of England perform poorly in Europe it lends itself to the perception that the league as a whole is down. It may be down, but only marginally, and it is still top 2; at worst, top 3. The bottom half of Ligue 1 would be competitive in the Championship, in my opinion. Italy is heading in the right direction domestically, or at least they appear to be, but still not nearly superior to the Premier League at the moment. Keep in mind, this stuff is cyclical.

Porto thrashed Bayern last week in CL. No, the Primeira Liga is not a top-3 division, but success in Europe tends to bring positive attention to the league as a whole and not just the participating club.

 

[ImperialOrange]

There is no doubt right now the EPL is running 3rd or 4th in terms of being the top league in the world. La Liga and the Bundesliga are def above. Ligue 1 I would say could be considered even or a step slightly ahead with Serie A right there. I am thrilled my gunners are sitting in good position but besides a slightly stronger defensive midfield and defense overall there is little change. It is the EPL as a whole that has gotten weaker.

A lot of money spread across a lot more teams in the prem. Real, Barca, and Bayern are similar to UK basketball in the SEC aka it's them and a huge drop to anyone else.

Check the wealth distribution in:

La Liga
http://www.transfermarkt.com/primera-division/startseite/wettbewerb/ES1

Bundesliga
http://www.transfermarkt.com/jumplist/startseite/wettbewerb/L1

EPL
http://www.transfermarkt.com/jumplist/startseite/wettbewerb/GB1

Stoke, the 13th wealthiest prem team, would be 8th in La Liga and 7th in Bundesliga for comparison sake using 100mil as a point of reference.

The difference between Bayern and 2nd valued Bundesliga team Dortmund in roster value is 225 mil. In La Liga Real = 710 mil, Barca 591 mil, Atleti 338 mil, Sevilla 221 mil as the top 4. The difference between 1st and 4th in La Liga is greater than the difference between 1st Chelsea 482 mil and 20th Burnley 47 mil in the EPL.

The 4th richest team in Germany or Spain would be 7th in the EPL.

 

[creatorsgam]

Sorry about that

Last game for Stevie G against United, lasts 30 seconds on the pitch. I was so disappointed. It was such a massive game, the drama building with his introduction, and then he was just gone. I'm a United guy, and even I was gutted. Not how I wanted to see Gerrard go out in his final game against Manchester United. That should have been a contest down to the final whistle.

Gerrard was pure class. I respected him for Liverpool, and supported him for the Three Lions. Hate to sound cliche but I love his game and his passion, and he is one of my all-time favorite players. A player every club would want wearing the armband. I look forward to his influence in the MLS.

Back to the point, hoping Liverpool beat City to 4th. The season is not over just yet.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think Bale would have the same issues Mata did fitting into JM's system to be honest. Plus you have a ton of youth and loan options already in house that would be much more appealing than spending stupid money on Bale.

Actually, I think Bale would be a great fit in a counterattacking scheme on the right side. I just think his price is prohibitive. And yes, there are a lot of young talented players in the pipeline. Maybe after a couple trophies, Mourinho will be granted the latitude from management to lose a few games next season in order to break in some new players.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Agreed. When the "usual suspects" of England perform poorly in Europe it lends itself to the perception that the league as a whole is down. It may be down, but only marginally, and it is still top 2; at worst, top 3. The bottom half of Ligue 1 would be competitive in the Championship, in my opinion. Italy is heading in the right direction domestically, or at least they appear to be, but still not nearly superior to the Premier League at the moment. Keep in mind, this stuff is cyclical.

Porto thrashed Bayern last week in CL. No, the Primeira Liga is not a top-3 division, but success in Europe tends to bring positive attention to the league as a whole and not just the participating club.

Liga Nos has a great setup. They buy Brazialian talent that can't get work permits elsewhere in Europe for cheap, win games, and sell high.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Last game for Stevie G against United, lasts 30 seconds on the pitch. I was so disappointed. It was such a massive game, the drama building with his introduction, and then he was just gone. I'm a United guy, and even I was gutted. Not how I wanted to see Gerrard go out in his final game against Manchester United. That should have been a contest down to the final whistle.

Gerrard was pure class. I respected him for Liverpool, and supported him for the Three Lions. Hate to sound cliche but I love his game and his passion, and he is one of my all-time favorite players. A player every club would want wearing the armband. I look forward to his influence in the MLS.

Back to the point, hoping Liverpool beat City to 4th. The season is not over just yet.

City are on horrid form but, sadly, we aren't looking like picking up a ton of points at the moment either. We need Sahko back in defense and Lucas back at CDM. Villa absolutely bossed us in midfield yesterday.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Last game for Stevie G against United, lasts 30 seconds on the pitch. I was so disappointed. It was such a massive game, the drama building with his introduction, and then he was just gone. I'm a United guy, and even I was gutted. Not how I wanted to see Gerrard go out in his final game against Manchester United. That should have been a contest down to the final whistle.

Gerrard was pure class. I respected him for Liverpool, and supported him for the Three Lions. Hate to sound cliche but I love his game and his passion, and he is one of my all-time favorite players. A player every club would want wearing the armband. I look forward to his influence in the MLS.

Back to the point, hoping Liverpool beat City to 4th. The season is not over just yet.

Don't tell Imperial (LOL), but over the last couple years, I've come to enjoy Liverpool's troubles. I used to pull for them as the plucky underdog, especially in Rogers' first season as he began the turnaround. I grew to dislike Suarez, not just for the bite on Ivanovic, but the racist thing with Patrice Evra, the constant diving and bull he does on the pitch.

Then Sturridge, a guy who was always too selfish with Chelsea, utterly fails in the absence of Suarez and spends the better part of the last year injured. Now you have Sterling, another rising talent, who seems like a selfish jerk who thinks he's too good for Liverpool when in truth he won't make the starting 11 of the teams he wants to move to.

And now everybody seems to hate Rogers in the dressing room. He bought all those squad players in the summer, appearing to not manage his first big spending window very well at all, although some of those guys do show promise. Gerrard strikes me as petulant and pissy. I thought his 38 second red card appearance in the last game was just astonishing. His slip last year with the title on the line - after telling his teammates "we can't let this slip" (Ah, the irony!)

Let's just say that United, now that Fergie is gone, is no longer my most hated opponent. City seem to be in decline as their core age before our eyes this season. Liverpool has become the team I get the most schadenfreude from when their trip up.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I grew to dislike Suarez, not just for the bite on Ivanovic, but the racist thing with Patrice Evra, the constant diving and bull he does on the pitch.

Interesting. I get why you're not a fan of any of that but then how can you support a team with Costa, Terry, and Hazard as focal points being dirty, racist, and diver?

 

[ImperialOrange]

Actually, I think Bale would be a great fit in a counterattacking scheme on the right side. I just think his price is prohibitive. And yes, there are a lot of young talented players in the pipeline. Maybe after a couple trophies, Mourinho will be granted the latitude from management to lose a few games next season in order to break in some new players.

I suppose Bale would just walk right in anywhere but you have at least 3 attacking mids on loan that I feel should get a long look in Saleh, Atsu, and Marin.

 

[Orangezoo]

It depends on how you define "top league". If you judge by the top 2 teams, then I agree. If you decide by the quality through the first 7 or 8 teams, then the Premier League is the best. Kind of like the old arguments about basketball conferences. Pre-ACC Big East was the deepest, even though you would find more frequent championship (cf. Champions League) contenders at the top of the other leagues (Barca, Bayern and Real Madrid = Duke, Kentucky in pre-ACC membership days).

I don't disagree in theory. With that said given that the benchmark in Europe is Champion League Success, the parity in the league and strength of the top 8 really only fits the EPL fan's argument vs holding water in a roundtable. Add to that the poor showing in Europa this year and that only lends more credence to the EPL not being as strong. The past couple of years I would say the Bundesliga has surpassed in both top 2-4 and overall quality. The product on the pitch itself is better imho as well. La Liga, while I am not a big fan has a true big "3" now as well.

Add to that the physicality of the premier league at times is the result of the parity. It tightens up many matches and reduces the flow and thus keeping the margin of error for even a much stronger opponent slimmer than it really should be. Now we are not talking major differences in quality but I still contend the league is not as strong as some of its key competitors in Europe. You could argue that is more to do with the growth of those leagues than the regression of the EPL as well.

 

[CanadianSU]

I don't disagree in theory. With that said given that the benchmark in Europe is Champion League Success, the parity in the league and strength of the top 8 really only fits the EPL fan's argument vs holding water in a roundtable. Add to that the poor showing in Europa this year and that only lends more credence to the EPL not being as strong. The past couple of years I would say the Bundesliga has surpassed in both top 2-4 and overall quality. The product on the pitch itself is better imho as well. La Liga, while I am not a big fan has a true big "3" now as well.

Add to that the physicality of the premier league at times is the result of the parity. It tightens up many matches and reduces the flow and thus keeping the margin of error for even a much stronger opponent slimmer than it really should be. Now we are not talking major differences in quality but I still contend the league is not as strong as some of its key competitors in Europe. You could argue that is more to do with the growth of those leagues than the regression of the EPL as well.

Watching top Ukrainian outfit Dynamo Kiev just totally dismantle (5-2) Everton in the Europa league, being one better than them in ever category, pretty much sums up the EPL in the Europa/Champions league.

Not to mention, an average PSG team beat Chelsea (aka the club who thinks they are the best in Europe) at Stamford Bridge even without Zlatan...

The EPL has had a terrrrible year abroad.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I suppose Bale would just walk right in anywhere but you have at least 3 attacking mids on loan that I feel should get a long look in Saleh, Atsu, and Marin.

Salah and Marin aren't good enough. Atsu hasn't really had a chance yet.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Interesting. I get why you're not a fan of any of that but then how can you support a team with Costa, Terry, and Hazard as focal points being dirty, racist, and diver?

I disagree with your assessments of both Hazard and Costa. Defenders in England have been trying to wind up Costa since week 1. Hazard is by far the most fouled player in England, and probably 1/3 of the fouls don't get called. John Terry is a dirtbag of a human being, but until we can find someone better, I'm stuck with him.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I disagree with your assessments of both Hazard and Costa. Defenders in England have been trying to wind up Costa since week 1. Hazard is by far the most fouled player in England, and probably 1/3 of the fouls don't get called. John Terry is a dirtbag of a human being, but until we can find someone better, I'm stuck with him.

I'm not disputing Hazard gets fouled a lot but that doesn't change the fact he tries to buy fouls as well. It's not unique to him as most attacking players do it, but again, he dives quite a bit at the slightest contact as well.

Costa is Saurez part 2 which you'd likely agree with if he wasn't on your squad. Defenders set out to wind both of them up but they succeed because both are head cases (as are most strikers). Still doesn't give free reign to bite, push, punch, or intentionally stomp on mulitple players.

Fun fact, LFC were extremely close to signing Costa 2 Summers ago. Can you imagine Costa and Saurez playing together? The amount of dirty play, diving, yelling, moping, etc in between goals would be off the charts.

 

[CanadianSU]

Salah and Marin aren't good enough. Atsu hasn't really had a chance yet.

I was watching Fiorentina the other day and Salah imo looks so average.

Don't get me wrong he's quick as anything, but very out of control... Not really that impressed, but it was a very small sample size!

 

[cmr27]

Don't tell Imperial (LOL), but over the last couple years, I've come to enjoy Liverpool's troubles.

Gerrard's departure is going to be major addition through subtraction for Liverpool. I see a lot of comparisons between Liverpool now and the English national team in the last decade. Gerrard is at the heart of both teams and that's not good. His play last weekend in the FA Cup (and subsequent night out of hard partying in Chelsea) is pretty indicative of his work the last few seasons. Liverpool will be much better without Steven Gerrard and that's been true for several seasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Gerrard's departure is going to be major addition through subtraction for Liverpool. I see a lot of comparisons between Liverpool now and the English national team in the last decade. Gerrard is at the heart of both teams and that's not good. His play last weekend in the FA Cup (and subsequent night out of hard partying in Chelsea) is pretty indicative of his work the last few seasons. Liverpool will be much better without Steven Gerrard and that's been true for several seasons.

I think he's going to bomb at LA. The US game is so much more direct and the pitches are so small. Not a good fit for him.

 

[ImperialOrange]

I was watching Fiorentina the other day and Salah imo looks so average.

Don't get me wrong he's quick as anything, but very out of control... Not really that impressed, but it was a very small sample size!

But he's got physical gifts that can't be tought. Wonder why more players don't Improve with proper coaching? That's not just a Salah question, we have had out fair share that just seem to stagnate before turning into good players as have others.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Gerrard's departure is going to be major addition through subtraction for Liverpool. I see a lot of comparisons between Liverpool now and the English national team in the last decade. Gerrard is at the heart of both teams and that's not good. His play last weekend in the FA Cup (and subsequent night out of hard partying in Chelsea) is pretty indicative of his work the last few seasons. Liverpool will be much better without Steven Gerrard and that's been true for several seasons.

If we can settle on a formation that we can build a midfield for and get proper players perhaps. We need cover for Lucas and a physical presence to partner Henderson. Joe Allen Is neither of those things. Will be interesting to see if we play any youth to finish the season. I'm very interested to see what Branigan could offer at the top level.

Would love to see us run 2 strikers and a midfield diamond with:
--------Coutinho-------
Can-------------Hendo
----Lucas/new cdm---

 

[Orangezoo]

I think he's going to bomb at LA. The US game is so much more direct and the pitches are so small. Not a good fit for him.

Agreed on this. I am more surprised on this move the more I think on it. It will be interesting to see how Lampard does in NYC as well. I think he may fare better just given their style of play.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If we can settle on a formation that we can build a midfield for and get proper players perhaps. We need cover for Lucas and a physical presence to partner Henderson. Joe Allen Is neither of those things. Will be interesting to see if we play any youth to finish the season. I'm very interested to see what Branigan could offer at the top level.

Would love to see us run 2 strikers and a midfield diamond with:
--------Coutinho-------
Can-------------Hendo
----Lucas/new cdm---

I look at a few of those players and I just don't think they are good enough to win the league. I suppose if you got a great striker to compliment Sturridge and got another great central defender. But still, I think something is missing in that midfield.

 

[Orangezoo]

But he's got physical gifts that can't be tought. Wonder why more players don't Improve with proper coaching? That's not just a Salah question, we have had out fair share that just seem to stagnate before turning into good players as have others.

Speaking of such.. I just don't get Jozy Altidore. Obviously some of the concern is media heavy but I worry that his game is broken. He just seems to lack an identity anymore with all the moves he has made. He should have stayed with AZ.