Class of 2016 SG/SF Andrew White (VA; Grad Transfer from Nebraska)

[Dave85]

The TT thread just scrolled off the bottom of the recruiting page. It-gone.

 

[Brooky03]

Nah, you and I are usually on the same page--we just agree about a couple of things on next year's team [Gillon / White, primarily].

I don't know that I agree with your assessment about those player comparisons. Nichols was a catch and shoot guy, who didn't do much off of the bounce or creating for others. Joseph had a good handle in transition and was a threat to drive. Fair was a jack of all trades type, but who had more versatility than given credit for who could player "bigger" and sub at 4 to help the team. He always drove left, but he was a threat off of the bounce and had a tremendous mid-range game.

Lydon can definitely shoot threes. He has deep range, and looks to be a better three point threat than Fair or Joseph. I expect him to show more diversification this year, but it remains to be seen whether he can do more off of the bounce, or whether he'll be a threat to drive like either Joseph or Fair. He's a 4 who can really, really shoot. Joseph and Fair were 3's who could play up a position at 4 -- and both of these guys had complimentary games with the guys they played alongside, Joseph with Wes, Fair with Southerland. Can Lydon play down a position at 3? Is his game compatible with Roberson at 4? Not sure.

Ultimately, on this team, a lot of how I view the roster / project positions comes down to whether the player is the best fit at positions, given other players. Last year, Mali played three because he was the best option. Or rather, Gbinije would have been the best option, but Gbinije was also the best option at lead guard with Kaleb not having improved, so he shifted there and opened the door for Malichi to play 3.

On this year's team, Lydon isn't the best 3--White is. White isn't the best 2--Battle is. And Battle isn't the best 1--Gillon or arguably Howard are both better alternatives.

It comes down IMO to who starts at 4, and which player is asked to be a reserve. I'd expect that to come down to Lydon / Roberson, with one of these guys coming off the bench. If it's Lydon on the bench, he'll be in FAST, and will be a super scoring sub who will play 35+ minutes every game. If Roberson comes off the bench, not sure what to expect.

Lydon compares most favorably to Fair, imo. Fair started his career at PF and moved to SF for his senior season next to Grant. He was never a post-up guy but could score in/around the paint. He always had a good mid-range game and gradually showed some versatility from deep. His ballhandling was good for his size and he could get himself open or get to the rim, with some help from his crafty finishes, but you wouldn't want him handling the ball in the open court.

From my perspective, that - other than the gradually showing 3 point range part - is a pretty accurate description of Lydon. We don't have a ton of evidence for his midrange game, or driving ability for that matter, but I think we can make some inferences. In high school, driving or shooting short jumpers wasn't a problem for Lydon. At least, they weren't any more a problem for him than they were for Fair at that stage.

You might have a point that White is the more suitable/traditional SF, but there are some other considerations. A frontcourt of Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu would be incredibly tough for even Duke or Kentucky to score on. Throw White in there and teams mind find the soft spots.

Ultimately, Lydon is viewed as a Stretch 4. A Stretch 4 is either a 3 who can't dribble or a 4 who can't post-up. If he shows some dribble/driving ability, that might just make him a 3.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Lydon isn't going to be on the bench much, if he comes off the bench at all.

Will be really, really interesting to see how things unfold.

I don't disagree about Wes / DNic not having much off the bounce. But those guys were rangy wings defensively, not sure that Lydon has the same kind of lateral mobility that Wes did, for example.

I love Lydon's potential, as well. Kid is a STUD. I just don't know if he can play 3 for lengthy stretches.

It's really close. I don't think Nichols was a good defender at all. His jr and sr year we were very porous defensively and he didn't really block shots.

As far as Wes:

Lydon blocks more shots, Wes got slightly more steals. They're equals as rebounders. And if Lydon plays the 4, theres no difference between the 3 and 4 defensively in the zone anyway.

I know we disagree, but this is what makes for a good discussion. I try to think like JB when i make my prediction of who starts. I know you do as well, so I could see a scenario where Lydon starts out as the sixth man, I just don't like it.

I actually think Battle would be the perfect 6th man, but as someone said above that might hurt recruiting.

 

[reedny]

...which is why we could see a lot of Lydon in the 5 playing alongside Roberson in the second half of ball games.

In my mind, it will come down to whether what Roberson brings to the table as a 4 is more valuable any given night than what Chukwu / Coleman bring to the table at the 5.

Intriguing trade-off. Having White and Lydon on the floor is best for scoring, but if that happens, the only way Roberson plays is if Lydon's in the middle. That might work against the bottom half of the conference.

But when we play Duke, UNC, Pitt and (now) NC State (with the Turkish guy), I think Roberson's going to be swimming in the deep end. We have a 7'2 center ... he might be a pretty good offensive rebounder too. With Chukwu anchoring the zone, and Gillon, Battle, White and Lydon ... wow.

 

[RF2044]

Lydon compares most favorably to Fair, imo. Fair started his career at PF and moved to SF for his senior season next to Grant. He was never a post-up guy but could score in/around the paint. He always had a good mid-range game and gradually showed some versatility from deep. His ballhandling was good for his size and he could get himself open or get to the rim, with some help from his crafty finishes, but you wouldn't want him handling the ball in the open court.

From my perspective, that - other than the gradually showing 3 point range part - is a pretty accurate description of Lydon. We don't have a ton of evidence for his midrange game, or driving ability for that matter, but I think we can make some inferences. In high school, driving or shooting short jumpers wasn't a problem for Lydon. At least, they weren't any more a problem for him than they were for Fair at that stage.

You might have a point that White is the more suitable/traditional SF, but there are some other considerations. A frontcourt of Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu would be incredibly tough for even Duke or Kentucky to score on. Throw White in there and teams mind find the soft spots.

Ultimately, Lydon is viewed as a Stretch 4. A Stretch 4 is either a 3 who can't dribble or a 4 who can't post-up. If he shows some dribble/driving ability, that might just make him a 3.

I think that's Fair. I just want to point out that CJ didn't really start out as a 4, he had to play there due to a depth issue on our team. He was a 3 who didn't force. Remember back in 2011 / 2012, the infamous post claiming that he couldn't shoot outside of 10 feet? By the following year, he was the best mid-range shooter we've had in the last 20 years. There's a difference between not doing something and not being ABLE to do something. CJ had a high hoops IQ, and didn't make dumb mistakes or try to do too much--hence, why JB played him early and often, and trusted him even as a frosh.

Lydon is similar. Maybe he'll end up showing that he can be a 3 this year. I agree that he is more of a stretch 4 who can play bigger [as evidenced by his massive shotblocking in the NCAA tournament]. I just don't know that he can play "smaller" for lengthy stretches as effectively. Not saying that he won't be able to do so, just that it isn't the fait accompli that some are suggesting.

BUT at the end of the day, this is a great problem to have. We have 8 guys who could legitimately start--not often the case on this team. Them duking it out for minutes and having competitive practices is the best thing that could possibly happen for our season.

 

[Cusefan0307]

It's a trade-off. Having White and Lydon on the floor is best for scoring, but if that happens, the only way Roberson plays is if Lydon's in the middle. That might work against the bottom half of the conference.

But when we play Duke, UNC, Pitt and (now) NC State (with the Turkish guy), I think Roberson's going to be swimming in the deep end. We have a 7'2 center ... he might be a pretty good offensive rebounder too. Just saying.

Pitt? Top of conference? If we can't beat them with Dixon gone, we never are going to ever beat them...

 

[reedny]

Pitt? Top of conference? If we can't beat them with Dixon gone, we never are going to ever beat them...

I should have phrased it, "top of conference or beafier" teams. Either way, we've been manhandled by them in recent memory. Our record against them the last 3 years or so (except for the miracle shot) has been poor. At one point, they had Adams AND Zana on the same team, with Woodson killing us from outside. We had no chance. Then it got worse. We we went into NBA/NCAA deficit mode and starting rotating smaller players inside, and they've been killing us with big forwards and their bruising style of play.

This year -- we're the ones with the size. With/without Dixon I don't care. Bring them on.

 

[RF2044]

It's really close. I don't think Nichols was a good defender at all. His jr and sr year we were very porous defensively and he didn't really block shots.

As far as Wes:

Lydon blocks more shots, Wes got slightly more steals. They're equals as rebounders. And if Lydon plays the 4, theres no difference between the 3 and 4 defensively in the zone anyway.

I know we disagree, but this is what makes for a good discussion. I try to think like JB when i make my prediction of who starts. I know you do as well, so I could see a scenario where Lydon starts out as the sixth man, I just don't like it.

I actually think Battle would be the perfect 6th man, but as someone said above that might hurt recruiting.

Wes was a 3 playing a lot at PF, because it was best for the team. He was a very good rebounder for a 3, who could also block shots from the weakside. But he was about 6-7 210 pounds -- more of a 3 in size and stature.

Lydon is a 4 who can play 4 and 5. He was undersized for 5, but is such a good rebounder /shotblocker that he held his own. He got overpowered defensively often, but he was a true frosh--so we need to cut him slack. He'll hold position better when he gets stronger, anyway.

Both had / have position versatility -- but one played "up" [Wes], and we're talking about Lydon playing "down." I tend to think [my opinion only] that it is easier in our system for guys to do the former, with the type of athletes we typically recruit. Will be interesting to see whether Lydon can man the 3 effectively, a la a Chandler Parson's type. LOVE LYDON, BTW!!!

 

[Cusefan0307]

I should have phrased it, "top of conference or beafier" teams. Either way, we've been manhandled by them in recent memory. Our record against them the last 3 years or so (except for the miracle shot) has been poor. At one point, they had Adams AND Zana on the same team, with Woodson killing us from outside. We had no chance. Then it got worse. We we went into NBA/NCAA deficit mode and starting rotating smaller players inside, and they've been killing us with big forwards and their bruising style of play.

This year -- we're the ones with the size. With/without Dixon I don't care. Bring them on.

We actually won 3 of 4 against them from 2012-2014, but two of those wins were quite flukey. One was Ennis shot and the other was the BET when Southerland and Triche combined to make like 10 threes. We've lost every game against them since I believe. Besides rebounding, they've killed us in the midrange. I'm banking that doesn't happen with Dixon not around. Not many coaches emphasize long twos anymore like he did.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

My suggestion: they use one of those Boggle popper thingies in the pre-game huddle to determine who starts. A randomizer. No one gets stuck with the draft bio label of 'sixth man,' and it gets their adrenalin pumping for the tip.

 

[jordoo]

The Pitt match up without Dixon will be interesting. Even with Dixon we would have the depth/size/muscle to deal with them on the front line this year. Some of the hold overs will know how to play against the 2-3 regardless of how Stallings system differs. I think Pitt may have a tough transition season going from Dixon's style and system to Stallings. We shall see.

 

[cusetown1]

The Pitt match up without Dixon will be interesting. Even with Dixon we would have the depth/size/muscle to deal with them on the front line this year. Some of the hold overs will know how to play against the 2-3 regardless of how Stallings system differs. I think Pitt may have a tough transition season going from Dixon's style and system to Stallings. We shall see.

I'm so damn happy Dixon is gone can't emphasize that enough . They could be on a 5 game losing streak and shoot lights out against us. It was Jamie's Super Bowl because he knew he couldn't ever win in the tourney.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Stallings is even a bigger underachiever than Dixon. How many Draft Picks did he have at Vandy? He couldn't even win a tournament game with NBA talent.

 

[dasher]

Haha, you and I couldn't be more at odds over this roster. We seem to argue every time it comes up.

Lydon can do everything with a basketball that Nichols, Joseph, and Fair could do. They all played SF. So why can't Tyler?

I don't think Lydon can move as well as any of those three. He will play some 3. But he is a natural 4

 

[AZOrange]

Is that dude ever right?

he's had some "gems" in his time

 

[Whitey23]

Mike Waters with back to back days of White articles

 

[Day2]

Mike Waters with back to back days of White articles

Who would have thought it was good thing when we didn't get Mullins or Mystery Man?

 

[jgeorge322]

DC2 has been a starter since he arrived on campus. He earned it by being a highly-touted recruit.

Roberson, on the other hand, fell into his starting role. We all remember what JB said last season. I still think Roberson starts, but he's the odd man out if promises were made to Battle, Gillon and White.

Huh? Dc never started a game until this pat year and he played borderline starter minutes. What does being a highly touted recruit have to do with anything at this point in dc's career?

 

[jgeorge322]

I know memes are funny and all but curious as to your underlying thoughts on why its good for him to come here and not start

 

[Dave85]

Mike Waters with back to back days of White articles

They had AW3 as the #1 grad transfer recruit.

Ranking college basketball grad transfers: Where does Syracuse target Andrew White belong?

 

[jordoo]

Who would have thought it was good thing when we didn't get Mullins or Mystery Man?

No doubt Gillon was more of what we needed than Mullins at guard and White is a better fit as a shooter who will play as a 2/3 (offense/defense) than Mystery Man who would have been a stretch 4 like Lydon on a team that already has a bunch of guys to play at the 4/5 spots.

It really is amazing how loaded our frontcourt is after last season where we were scraping bye and playing guards on the front line quite often.

 

[jordoo]

Mike Waters with back to back days of White articles

So we have added a top 100 freshman and the #1 and #7 grad transfers in the summer to get to 10 scholarship players. Pretty great job by the staff.

 

[RF2044]

No doubt Gillon was more of what we needed than Mullins at guard and White is a better fit as a shooter who will play as a 2/3 (offense/defense) than Mystery Man who would have been a stretch 4 like Lydon on a team that already has a bunch of guys to play at the 4/5 spots.

It really is amazing how loaded our frontcourt is after last season where we were scraping bye and playing guards on the front line quite often.

Agreed. Mullins was recruited when the coaches thought that we'd have both Battle and Mali back, as the starting backcourt. They needed another guy to round out the rotation, a shooter who was comfortable coming off the bench, who could run the point if needed, as well.

When Mullins opted for Berkeley and Mali bailed, the needs shifted significantly. And Gillon is a much better fit for what the newly constituted team needs are than Mullins would have been.

 

[Day2]

Huh? Dc never started a game until this pat year

You sure about that, chief?

 

[MSOrange]

Huh? Dc never started a game until this pat year and he played borderline starter minutes. What does being a highly touted recruit have to do with anything at this point in dc's career?

That reasoning threw me also. Don't really understand what being a highly touted recruit means when you get to your senior year.