Class of 2016 SG/SF Andrew White (VA; Grad Transfer from Nebraska)

[JOC44]

Can Battle run the point?

If so, I'd love to see a big lineup from time to time:

PG - Battle
SG - White
SF - Lydon
PF - Roberson
C - Chukwu

That would be one hell of a big lineup!

It would be even bigger if you swapped Coleman for White. With Battle and either Lydon, Roberson or Coleman at the top of the zone, our zone will be HUGE!!!

 

[Day2]

How many times has Boeheim taken a 2 year starter and sat him on the bench for his senior year?

I don't think that's enough of a reason. How many times has Boeheim brought in a 5th-year grad transfer, much less two? How many times has he brought in six new players, at least four of which are worthy of significant minutes? How many times has Boeheim been on the verge of retirement?

 

[Day2]

From clips, he doesn't put the ball on the floor much. He lacks a dribble drive game, and seems to be a spot up catch and shoot guy. He averaged 0.6 assists last year.

In White's defense, he didn't have a lot of guys to pass to: Nebraska - Season Statistics

Jason Cipolla wasn't much of an assist guy either, although he shared the floor with three guys who could bring the ball up the court.

 

[Brooky03]

From clips, he doesn't put the ball on the floor much. He lacks a dribble drive game, and seems to be a spot up catch and shoot guy. He averaged 0.6 assists last year.

There's more than just dribbling to being a guard. I agree that Battle is a good ball handler. He's more of a combo than a lead guard, though. So couple that with White, and we've got a fairly limited backcourt in terms of playmaking.

Keep in mind that Paul Harris handled the ball very well, too--didn't make him a point guard. There's more to it than just dribbling.

Agreed on most points, but is Battle-White much different than Gbinije-Cooney? Eliminating the experience edge, Battle looks like the more natural guard in comparison to Gbinije. He's currently a better ball handler and doesn't need to do a ton to be a better passer. White and Cooney sound like twins, just White is taller. Now, I know we don't necessarily want teams to mirror a backcourt that wasn't exactly a shining example in the program's history, but it's food for thought.

When we've had small 3's, like Harris, they've had good ball handling, but our typical 3 is 6'8" and limited when he puts the ball on the deck. Nichols was more of a shooter than anything else, only putting the ball on the deck when he had to. Joseph was a straight-line guy without much of a left hand. Fair was equally dependent on his strong hand and often had to pull up short because he couldn't get all the way to the rim (and because his mid-range game was on point). I don't think it would take much for Lydon to dribble and pass like these guys did, and they all played on some pretty successful teams.

 

[RF2044]

In White's defense, he didn't have a lot of guys to pass to: Nebraska - Season Statistics

Jason Cipolla wasn't much of an assist guy either, although he shared the floor with three guys who could bring the ball up the court.

That was personnel driven, on a team that only had 7 guys who played. There weren't any other options. That won't be the case this upcoming year [assuming White comes here].

 

[jordoo]

If we add White I think the only thing this team wouldn't have would be that do it all forward who could grab a rebound and run the break himself.

 

[Brooky03]

I don't think that's enough of a reason. How many times has Boeheim brought in a 5th-year grad transfer, much less two? How many times has he brought in six new players, at least four of which are worthy of significant minutes? How many times has Boeheim been on the verge of retirement?

The grad transfer stuff is out of necessity and at least partially out of Boeheim's control, in that he doesn't control the grad transfer market which is unusually active right now. He's been on the 'verge of retirement' for like 10 years at this point. Something that isn't caused by an anomaly, that he's had lots of experience with in the past, is the playing time of a returning and productive senior. He has a pattern of rewarding seniors. I might be missing somebody (I'm sure there's an exception or two), but I don't recall and can't imagine him sitting 4th year senior with 2 years of starting under his belt just to make room for a grad transfer; especially not when the team would be totally fine with the top 20 recruit at SG, potential lottery pick moving from stretch PF to SF, and a grad transfer at PG.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If we add White I think the only thing this team wouldn't have would be that do it all forward who could grab a rebound and run the break himself.

I could see the potential for Lydon to do that if he improved his handle over the summer...

 

[Jasoncuse]

If we add White I think the only thing this team wouldn't have would be that do it all forward who could grab a rebound and run the break himself.

Who was the last true forward we had that could do that? Kris Jo?

 

[RF2044]

Agreed on most points, but is Battle-White much different than Gbinije-Cooney? Eliminating the experience edge, Battle looks like the more natural guard in comparison to Gbinije. He's currently a better ball handler and doesn't need to do a ton to be a better passer. White and Cooney sound like twins, just White is taller. Now, I know we don't necessarily want teams to mirror a backcourt that wasn't exactly a shining example in the program's history, but it's food for thought.

When we've had small 3's, like Harris, they've had good ball handling, but our typical 3 is 6'8" and limited when he puts the ball on the deck. Nichols was more of a shooter than anything else, only putting the ball on the deck when he had to. Joseph was a straight-line guy without much of a left hand. Fair was equally dependent on his strong hand and often had to pull up short because he couldn't get all the way to the rim (and because his mid-range game was on point). I don't think it would take much for Lydon to dribble and pass like these guys did, and they all played on some pretty successful teams.

Except we don't know that for certain about Battle. I'd take fifth year senior Gbinije running the point over incoming frosh Battle. And Gbinije ran the point last year because we didn't have better options. Battle will play next year with Gillon / Howard. Not apples to apples.

White and Cooney aren't remotely similar, in terms of dribbling, passing, or ability to defend up top.

 

[Brooky03]

Who was the last true forward we had that could do that? Kris Jo?

Probably Wes

 

[orangenirvana]

Folks here went bench, in some way shape or form, the 2 starters and best player from a final four team.
Brilliant.
DC - has earned it, and will be far better than last year.
Roby- best rebounder in the league, and JB wants to run.
Lydon - best player. Will get all-
ACC consideration.

Some of you honestly think these guys won't start. Mind boggling.

Andrew White is one of the very best three-point shooters in the nation. If he decides to come here, it's not to begin games sitting on the bench.

 

[Brooky03]

White and Cooney aren't remotely similar, in terms of dribbling, passing, or ability to defend up top.

White is that one-dimensional? Or are you saying White is the one better in those areas?


For the record, I would rather see Battle get most of his minutes off the ball. Put him on the court with Frank and bring Gillon and White off the bench together. That's how I'd do it, but I don't get paid millions of dollars to coach bball.

 

[Brooky03]

I doubt White is transferring just for playing time as a starter or to be a star. He got and was going to continue to get that at Nebraska. Nebraska sucks at basketball - everybody knows this - but it's still a program in a huge conference with plenty of national exposure. I think White is making the move so he can showcase his stuff in March, with better teammates around him. Not that Boeheim is one to make guarantees, but a pitch that he could see the same role as the #4 pick in the NBA draft who started games on the bench but ultimately played 25-30+ minutes, would not be the worst pitch imaginable.

 

[orangenirvana]

Agreed on most points, but is Battle-White much different than Gbinije-Cooney?

White and Cooney sound like twins, just White is taller.

I'm sure when Cooney and White are together they feel like they're looking into a mirror!

Cooney has more foot speed and quickness than White has. That's why Cooney played on top of the zone while White is a prototypical Boeheim 3.

 

[orangefog]

I'm sure when Cooney and White are together they feel like they're looking into a mirror!

Cooney has more foot speed and quickness than White has. That's why Cooney played on top of the zone while White is a prototypical Boeheim 3.

I'd like to think that they could live together in perfect harmony.

 

[Day2]

The grad transfer stuff is out of necessity and at least partially out of Boeheim's control, in that he doesn't control the grad transfer market which is unusually active right now. He's been on the 'verge of retirement' for like 10 years at this point. Something that isn't caused by an anomaly, that he's had lots of experience with in the past, is the playing time of a returning and productive senior. He has a pattern of rewarding seniors. I might be missing somebody (I'm sure there's an exception or two), but I don't recall and can't imagine him sitting 4th year senior with 2 years of starting under his belt just to make room for a grad transfer; especially not when the team would be totally fine with the top 20 recruit at SG, potential lottery pick moving from stretch PF to SF, and a grad transfer at PG.

That's just it. This isn't a typical year or a typical roster. I can imagine him sitting a 4th-year senior because he added two other seniors who started on their former teams. Especially when that 4th-year senior only started because other players were hurt, left early, or didn't come at all.

 

[JarHeadJim]

Page 100!!!PopcornSUball

 

[jordoo]

I could see the potential for Lydon to do that if he improved his handle over the summer...

Possibly as he really didn't get a great chance to showcase his handle last year. It looked more than acquitted from my recollection but he always looked to get rid of the ball on his defensive rebounds. It would be great if he could.

 

[Day2]

That was personnel driven, on a team that only had 7 guys who played. There weren't any other options. That won't be the case this upcoming year [assuming White comes here].

I'm not sure what that has to do with assist numbers, but OK.

 

[Brooky03]

I'm sure when Cooney and White are together they feel like they're looking into a mirror!

Cooney has more foot speed and quickness than White has. That's why Cooney played on top of the zone while White is a prototypical Boeheim 3.

 

[jordoo]

Who was the last true forward we had that could do that? Kris Jo?

MikeG although we didn't play him there. If only we had had a ready experienced PG last year we would have seen this out of him. But yeah before him probably KrisJo. Wes could in open space but not so much in traffic. BillyO was the best at this IMO but Wallace did it a lot as a senior and Melo as a freshman.

 

[Day2]

Re: Gillon

In 2003, we started McNamara and Duany in the backcourt, even though Edelin was the best pure PG on the team.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not sure what that has to do with assist numbers, but OK.

Cipolla didn't fit the prototype for our system as a 2. He lacked footspeed and lateral mobility. He was an OK handler / passer [and in fact, was our backup point guard] but wasn't athletic / quick.

He started at 2 because the alternative was a younger, less experienced guy in Janulis. There wasn't anybody else, and we only played 7.

How is that relevant to this year? Because if White comes here, we don't have to play him at 2 because we'll have better backcourt options, unlike during the 1996 season.

 

[RF2044]

Re: Gillon

In 2003, we started McNamara and Duany in the backcourt, even though Edelin was the best pure PG on the team.

Also because Edelin was suspended for the first 13 games or thereabouts.