Should Shafer be given a 3rd year? (LONG)

[NashvilleOrange]

He should probably be given 2 more years unless we lose out and then poop the bed next season. Saturday was absolutely infuriating but outside of forgetting to establish AAM I thought the game plan was decent. The only truly embarrassing loss this year has been Louisville as opposed to last year where we had 4 definitively embarrassing losses. As others have said, Shafer needs to suck it up and hire a real offensive coordinator and we'll be headed back in the right direction.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Hitting the reset button does nothing for us at this point unless we are willing to pony up for a stud coaching staff (we aren't) that also happens to be avail (non existant). I think he gets 2 more years and honestly Id hate to lose our current recruiting class and ties for the following year that have already been established. If next season isn't any better the seat would start to get warm, but the question would be does he deserve a 4th year as Im not sure there are any reasonable circumstances that result in him not getting a 3rd.

 

[Macky44]

 

[Millhouse]

You don't fire coaches after two years. If we do that then this school will just continue to hire and fire coaches like the Raiders. You have to give him next year to make things right.

the run and stop the run meatheads here want to be stanford. except for the part where they fired a guy after two years to become the glorious boring overrated pile of white guys that everyone here wishes we could be

 

[boog7]

the run and stop the run meatheads here want to be stanford. except for the part where they fired a guy after two years to become the glorious boring overrated pile of white guys that everyone here wishes we could be

Uh, no.

 

[Scooch]

Syracuse is not dook football.

which i suppose is one of our problems, how we think. its like those rob lowe commercials. we think we are him, but in reality we are slub version of him.

we are closer to dook...ie: a C or D level P5, than to say a mich & miss st B level, who can rise up and take a shot...

This.

Many of us remember the 90s, and others the 80s. The problem is that those years are irrelevant in 2o14.

The kids who are being recruited today were all of 3 or 4 years old the last time SU was ranked. We have an awesome commercial that we run during games that shows McNabb waving a towel on the bench as we throttled Miami... SIXTEEN years ago, practically before our next class of recruits were born.

Since 2002 Syracuse is 61-94. Let than sink in... 61 wins and 94 losses. Do you know that if it were 2002 and we had to go backwards to get to 94 losses... we'd go all the way to 1979. 23 seasons.

We haven't been ranked, and have been to three insignificant bowls. I'm pretty sure almost every P5 school has been ranked at least one measely week since 2002.

We've been a mediocre-at-best, lousy-at-worst program for a long time now. We need to find new solutions.

Shafer will be retained, that's obvious and probably correct.

If there's a new AD soon then he or she should get to select the next HC, should we need one.

 

[leftytg]

Imagine you walk into a dumpster-fire of a job, where everything is 5 years behind where it should be. You have a mountain of things to overcome, just to get back to status-quo. You also are asked to work with a staff that is barely average ( the players ) and are only given 2 quarters in a business year to figure it all out and get out of the red. This is what Shafer was put up against. YES, i realize he knew what he was walking into, and he hired his own staff. He was still using Marrone's players that were recruited for a different style than Shafer is running, and the guys Shafer HAS recruited are some of the few bright spots we have seen this season. Give the guy a chance. We have been in almost every game this year..even against FSU and Clemson. He needs at least 2 more years to show what he is capable of.

I think you are describing what Marrone faced, not Shafer.

 

[Macky44]

I think you are describing what Marrone faced, not Shafer.

They were both faced with the same problem actually. Marrone helped move the program ESSENTIALLY in the direction he envisioned for his style of play. Shafer is not Marrone, and he can't be expected to thrive from day 1 with someone else's recruiting.

 

[leftytg]

They were both faced with the same problem actually. Marrone helped move the program ESSENTIALLY in the direction he envisioned for his style of play. Shafer is not Marrone, and he can't be expected to thrive from day 1 with someone else's recruiting.

you described the job as a dumpster fire 5 years behind on everything. That simply wasn't true. That was easily true for Marrone.

Marrone came in and stabilized the program. There were still areas that needed growth and attention, but the program had stabilized. Your post was going overboard in describing the situation Shafer faced.

 

[Millhouse]

This.

Many of us remember the 90s, and others the 80s. The problem is that those years are irrelevant in 2o14.

The kids who are being recruited today were all of 3 or 4 years old the last time SU was ranked. We have an awesome commercial that we run during games that shows McNabb waving a towel on the bench as we throttled Miami... SIXTEEN years ago, practically before our next class of recruits were born.

Since 2002 Syracuse is 61-94. Let than sink in... 61 wins and 94 losses. Do you know that if it were 2002 and we had to go backwards to get to 94 losses... we'd go all the way to 1979. 23 seasons.

We haven't been ranked, and have been to three insignificant bowls. I'm pretty sure almost every P5 school has been ranked at least one measely week since 2002.

We've been a mediocre-at-best, lousy-at-worst program for a long time now. We need to find new solutions.

Shafer will be retained, that's obvious and probably correct.

If there's a new AD soon then he or she should get to select the next HC, should we need one.

history isn't irrelevant. if history were irrelevant there would be a lot more turnover in who is good and who isn't. 18 year old kids might not know the history but it must have a strong indirect impact on them.

 

[Macky44]

you described the job as a dumpster fire 5 years behind on everything. That simply wasn't true. That was easily true for Marrone.

Marrone came in and stabilized the program. There were still areas that needed growth and attention, but the program had stabilized. Your post was going overboard in describing the situation Shafer faced.

Marrone left with a .500 record. I would hardly consider that STABILIZED.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The OP is missing the bigger picture IMO and it goes a little something like this:

Hunt out
Wilson out
Broyld out
Estime out
Foy out
And the rest of the OL in shambles

Fact is it's hard to play 1's vs 2's in the ACC.

And this is why "talent" isn't necessarily the problem-- depth of talent is the problem. It's great to have talented players on the first string. But injuries happen for every team, and the ones who continue to succeed are the ones who prove that depth behind the initial talent is critical to success.

 

[leftytg]

Marrone left with a .500 record. I would hardly consider that STABILIZED.

you should:
1) look up the record for the era preceding Marrone, and then
2) look up the definition of stabilize

 

[Macky44]

If your idea of stabilize is a .500 record and you were happy with Marrone's end result then you should:

1) know the history of this program prior to Greg Robinson
2) set higher expectations in life.

 

[JoeSU]

If you're going to fire Shafer after just 2 seasons, what decent coach in his right mind would come here knowing he has such a short leash to produce?

 

[Millhouse]

If you're going to fire Shafer after just 2 seasons, what decent coach in his right mind would come here knowing he has such a short leash to produce?

stanford had to find a totally anonymous shmuck to take over when they canned chapstick after 2 years, jon harbloff or something?

and if we wait a few more years, i'm sure big name coaches will just be beating down our door

 

[Scooch]

history isn't irrelevant. if history were irrelevant there would be a lot more turnover in who is good and who isn't. 18 year old kids might not know the history but it must have a strong indirect impact on them.

Not sure we're talking about the same thing. My point is that when people suggest "all" we need to do is replicate what we did in the 80s and 90s that I think it's a fools errand. We took advantage of the ever-popular "market inefficiencies" back then (recruiting black QBs, recruiting under-the-radar kids in FL, converting player's positions to emphasize speed, focus on special teams, benefiting from Pitt/Temple/Rutgers being total jokes, etc). We need to find those kind of under-utilized opportunities today. Or we can try to be a "hardnosed" and win 7 games in a good year.

FWIW, I'd suggest that the reasons why some programs are typically "good" is because college athletics is a rigged game. The system is built to make sure that the schools with legacies and big revenue-generating machines stay on top. It's actually a much bigger surprise that a Michigan can go through the down cycle they're in now than to see a Baylor ascend, IMHO.

 

[Scooch]

If you're going to fire Shafer after just 2 seasons, what decent coach in his right mind would come here knowing he has such a short leash to produce?

I'm not advocating firing Shafer by any stretch of the imagination, but people say this all the time and I've never seen it to be true.

Money talks.

If we fired Shafer and actually PAID a real head coach to come here, he wouldn't not come because we cut bait with SS after 2 years.

 

[CanadianSU]

the problem of new coach or not new coach, doesnt lie with how grobbycakes, sorry SS, performs this year.

its whether gross gets canned and we get a new AD next summer.

theres been a forest fire's worth of smoke on this for a couple of years now, SU needs to either shlit or get off the pot.

a new AD will want to bring in his guy, if tgd gets another stay of execution, then SS likely has through 16.

and then we will likely be revisiting smokey the bear yet again.

Bud Poliquin. ?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm not advocating firing Shafer by any stretch of the imagination, but people say this all the time and I've never seen it to be true.

Money talks.

If we fired Shafer and actually PAID a real head coach to come here, he wouldn't not come because we cut bait with SS after 2 years.

Stanford got Harbaugh after firing chap stick in 2 years and I agree I don't believe he will be fired but I don't think this would be an issue, either you pay a top notch assistant 2-3 times what he is making now or a very successful HC 2-3 times what he is making now and they will take the job. Coaches know that if they don't win they will be fired and many realize they can be fired quickly

 

[Scooch]

Stanford got Harbaugh after firing chap stick in 2 years and I agree I don't believe he will be fired but I don't think this would be an issue, either you pay a top notch assistant 2-3 times what he is making now or a very successful HC 2-3 times what he is making now and they will take the job. Coaches know that if they don't win they will be fired and many realize they can be fired quickly

The Cubs just fired their manager after one year and hired Joe Maddon.

What is Maddon thinking?!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I can completely forgive this season due to the schedule, injuries, staff adjustments, etc. IF WE TAKE OUR CHANCES WHEN WE GET THEM.

If we keep turning down the moment I don't think Shafer is the guy to do anything better than how we scraped in to a bowl last season.

He really needs to watch The Replacements, when Shane Falco audibles out of a pass at the end of the game because he read blitz and then Coach Jimmy McGinty says "Winners always want the ball... when the game is on the line."

 

[Upstate]

You are, no doubt, right. But, Shafer has to totally rethink his approach because it simply isn't working.

I don't think so. Down 4 of your best OL, your starting QB, two starting WRs is Shafer's fault? AJ made a bad throw that eventually decided the game, unfortunately. I like what the team can do at full strength. I wasn't ready to anoint AJ as the second coming when he played well. The best QBs win the winnable games when they've got everything given to them. The injuries the team has been dealt have been the downfall -- there's little Shafer can do about them, but his team just isn't at full strength. It's really too bad. Once Shafer gets the OL and Hunt back, the team will be in much much much better shape. Unfortunately, that may only happen next year.

 

[Millhouse]

Stanford got Harbaugh after firing chap stick in 2 years and I agree I don't believe he will be fired but I don't think this would be an issue, either you pay a top notch assistant 2-3 times what he is making now or a very successful HC 2-3 times what he is making now and they will take the job. Coaches know that if they don't win they will be fired and many realize they can be fired quickly

none of these guys think they'll ever be fired anyway. you don't get the chance at that job without being incredibly lucky and arrogant. "who cares if they fire guys, i'm awesome and they'll be lucky to have me"

 

[Jeepers]

In hindsight, the McD demotion is looking pretty bad. No improvement with Lester, and now a burned bridge. Insulting mid-season, no? Let him finish out the season, and then figure it out.

Did anyone else catch McD holding Shafer back when he was flipping out? Kinda gave me a weird feeling about the whole dynamic of their relationship.