So we missed a couple recruits

[Trueblue25]

Thats BS. We are and have always been an elite program. After uk and duke we have had the best run of 1st round picks. Think big be big. If Dino can recruit on a national basis why not jb. Hop stevie both came from the west coast. We used to own Philly. JB needs to look at his staff and in the mirror. One more crap year and its time for his going away party.

We didnt build our success on consistently landing top 10 recruits. I am talking about recruitment, not on court performance. Two different things.

 

[Alsacs]

We didnt build our success on consistently landing top 10 recruits. I am talking about recruitment, not on court performance. Two different things.

We don't go after the top 10 recruits.

We are now losing our bread and butter recruits. We haven't gotten a good PG prospect since Joseph 3 years ago and he wasn't ready to start day one.

Syracuse from 2009 thru 2014 was good because we had a foundation 4 year guy whether it was Kris Joseph, Scoop, Rick Jackson, CJ Fair, Michael Gbinije and NBA draft picks around them.

We don't have those 4 year guys now. This roster has zero seniors on it. JB doesn't change anything up and we are the most status quo program in the nation.

That doesn't work. Recruiting was solid even without top 10 guys. Nowadays its recruit X is underrated. Or recruit Y is going to surprise. This is an arms race and we are falling behind.

 

[Sherman20]

even if those guys weren't injured, they were not going to contribute jack squat offensively.

I think DC showed some good growth with his offensive moves down low and with a soft touch on his shot. Offense wasn't his problem. The problem is that his (already limited) lateral quickness and vertical leap regressed as his knees worsened last year, and that lateral quickness is crucial for the center spot in the zone.

 

[reedny]

DC2 being hurt was not a surprise. Don't think anyone realistically expected much production from him last year. Chukwu played enough to make me concerned about what kind of production we will get from him this year. Injuries did not do in last year's team - it was just a bad mix.

That is ridiculous. The expectation for DC2 was that he would finally be healthy. There were good reports about his movement and scoring pre-season, and it looked like we'd finally have some inside-outside balance that's been lacking from the team for some time. Unfortunately, as the season progressed, Coleman's knees just couldn't take the pounding. No one "expected" that - it was the opposite. Nor did anyone suspect Moyer's RS, or that Chukwu would have a retinal detachment and surgery.

I mean, if you don't think losing both centers didn't cause havoc -- I'm not sure what to tell you. Just for starters, our starting stretch 4 (TL) had to play center all year, with TT coming in for major minutes when he was no where near ready. Once again, without 3 frontline players, we didn't have the beef or depth to defend the lane. So it's obvious that injuries were a huge factor in our disappointing season.

 

[doc05]

That is ridiculous. The expectation for DC2 was that he would finally be healthy. There were good reports about his movement and scoring pre-season, and it looked like we'd finally have some inside-outside balance that's been lacking from the team for some time. Unfortunately, as the season progressed, Coleman's knees just couldn't take the pounding. No one "expected" that - it was the opposite. Nor did anyone suspect Moyer's RS, or that Chukwu would have a retinal detachment and surgery.

I mean, if you don't think losing both centers didn't cause havoc -- I'm not sure what to tell you. Just for starters, our starting stretch 4 (TL) had to play center all year, with TT coming in for major minutes when he was no where near ready. Once again, without 3 frontline players, we didn't have the beef or depth to defend the lane. So it's obvious that injuries were a huge factor in our disappointing season.

Please -- DC did virtually nothing but have some flashes in the FF run and you went off reports that he would "finally be healthy" after 5 years? Exactly what kind of production did you anticipate getting from DC all season? The guy was never by any means a rim protector, had major surgeries, missed years of playing time and couldn't even jump -- even when "healthy". If he averaged 5 and 5 and lasted the full year that would have been what most realistic people would have hoped for. Most people were hoping PC would have come in at his size and been the real pivotal player in the center rotation. Did you see him play when he was out there? I did. It was not pretty. Sure, maybe it was due to his eye. The fact of the matter is -- we were in trouble at the center position with or without those guys playing . Those two being hurt are not a legitimate excuse as for why last year's team was sub par. Cuse was bad when they were out there "healthy" and playing.

 

[reedny]

Please -- DC did virtually nothing but have some flashes in the FF run and you went off reports that he would "finally be healthy" after 5 years? Exactly what kind of production did you anticipate getting from DC all season? The guy was never by any means a rim protector, had major surgeries, missed years of playing time and couldn't even jump -- even when "healthy". If he averaged 5 and 5 and lasted the full year that would have been what most realistic people would have hoped for. Most people were hoping PC would have come in at his size and been the real pivotal player in the center rotation. Did you see him play when he was out there? I did. It was not pretty. Sure, maybe it was due to his eye. The fact of the matter is -- we were in trouble at the center position with or without those guys playing . Those two being hurt are not a legitimate excuse as for why last year's team was sub par. Cuse was bad when they were out there "healthy" and playing.

You're completely missing the point. BOTH our centers turned up hurt. Whether DC2 was going to score 4 points and play 12 minutes, or 8 points and play 18-20, is immaterial -- since he wound up not being to play AT ALL. Pre-season, by contrast, his health was looking up and there were positive practice reports. Obviously, having a big guy down low to score and rebound (which he was good at), would have been a big improvement in team depth, size, rebounding, balance and overall success.

Moyer's RS was unexpected, and reduced depth further.

Then Chuwku went out. No one could have predicted that.

What was left was a cobbled-together front line with a stretch-4 at center (no beef) backed up by a lanky PF who liked to shoot from 18 feet and had no idea how to play defense. And a 6'8 guy (Robbie) as PF -- that the coach expressly stated wouldn't have played anywhere near the minutes he got if we had had any choices (we didn't). We got massacred on the glass agains the big boys of the league, and instantly became a one-dimensional jump shooting team with very limited low-block defense and offense. We were easy to defend and struggled, despite a couple of high profile wins when our jumpers were falling.

How you can claim that injuries weren't a major factor in last year's tanking is beyond me.

 

[two3zone]

You're completely missing the point. BOTH our centers turned up hurt. Whether DC2 was going to score 4 points and play 12 minutes, or 8 points and play 18-20, is immaterial -- since he wound up not being to play AT ALL. Pre-season, by contrast, his health was looking up and there were positive practice reports. Obviously, having a big guy down low to score and rebound (which he was good at), would have been a big improvement in team depth, size, rebounding, balance and overall success.

Moyer's RS was unexpected, and reduced depth further.

Then Chuwku went out. No one could have predicted that.

What was left was a cobbled-together front line with a stretch-4 at center (no beef) backed up by a lanky PF who liked to shoot from 18 feet and had no idea how to play defense. And a 6'8 guy (Robbie) as PF -- that the coach expressly stated wouldn't have played anywhere near the minutes he got if we had had any choices (we didn't). We got massacred on the glass agains the big boys of the league, and instantly became a one-dimensional jump shooting team with very limited low-block defense and offense. We were easy to defend and struggled, despite a couple of high profile wins when our jumpers were falling.

How you can claim that injuries weren't a major factor in last year's tanking is beyond me.

If D.C. And 72 didn't go down TT doesn't play as many minutes, and other minutes would've been taken away from Lydon or White. If anything those two going down helped us.

 

[dasher]

If D.C. And 72 didn't go down TT doesn't play as many minutes, and other minutes would've been taken away from Lydon or White. If anything those two going down helped us.

Players getting hurt doesn't help you. The coach would always have had the option of not playing guys. With them out, he didn't have that option.

 

[doc05]

You're completely missing the point. BOTH our centers turned up hurt. Whether DC2 was going to score 4 points and play 12 minutes, or 8 points and play 18-20, is immaterial -- since he wound up not being to play AT ALL. Pre-season, by contrast, his health was looking up and there were positive practice reports. Obviously, having a big guy down low to score and rebound (which he was good at), would have been a big improvement in team depth, size, rebounding, balance and overall success.

Moyer's RS was unexpected, and reduced depth further.

Then Chuwku went out. No one could have predicted that.

What was left was a cobbled-together front line with a stretch-4 at center (no beef) backed up by a lanky PF who liked to shoot from 18 feet and had no idea how to play defense. And a 6'8 guy (Robbie) as PF -- that the coach expressly stated wouldn't have played anywhere near the minutes he got if we had had any choices (we didn't). We got massacred on the glass agains the big boys of the league, and instantly became a one-dimensional jump shooting team with very limited low-block defense and offense. We were easy to defend and struggled, despite a couple of high profile wins when our jumpers were falling.

How you can claim that injuries weren't a major factor in last year's tanking is beyond me.

I'm honestly not sure if you were watching the same team as everybody else. By all accounts Moyer wasn't ready and would not have contributed significantly anyway. I also am not sure if you saw what our vaunted interior defense looked like when a so called healthy DC and PC were in there. And let's all be real -- PC was a complete liability out there. But how anyone could have been depending on DC to contribute all year is a little beyond me if they had watched him the past 4-5 seasons. Without getting into this back and forth, I'll just say it was painfully obvious that the team would have missed the NCAA with or without DC and PC in there. Saying otherwise just sounds like a poor excuse.

 

[jordoo]

The reason we missed the NCAA's last year was because we sheet the bed in the OOC. We had two losses that were acceptable to South Carolina and @ Wisconsin. Losing to Uconn @ MSG, Gtown at home and of course getting embarrassed by St. Johns at home is what kept us out of the tourney. We were 18-14 and considered the last team out by most. If we won any of those three games it would have been enough to get us in. You can throw that horrible first ACC game road loss @ BC in as well. Winning that would have had us at 11-7 in the ACC which likely does the trick. The team got off to a very bad start and simply wasn't a good enough team to dig out of that hole and overcome it. Even coming down the stretch of the season knowing they were playing for their NCAAT spot we couldn't beat Pitt or G-Tech on the road and we lost to Miami in or only ACCT game.

To me we had a couple guys get in very late, we had some guys coming back that the staff expected a lot of. We had some bad defenders and some bad fits for our defensive system. Everything was disorganized on both ends in the OOC. It really didn't get straightened out until a couple games into the ACC schedule. Some of this is situational but some of it is coaching and knowing what you have. It seems our staff as a whole did a very poor job of identifying the strengths and weaknesses of last years group. They played multiple line ups that handcuffed the team on both ends well into the season. Line ups that many fans here said wouldn't work before they ever saw the team in action. It was a frustrating season because the team had the pieces to be an NCAAT squad and the coaches took too long to figure out the best way to deploy them. I know there were other factors but I think that was the biggest one. We were never going to be a world beaters last year but we could have been a pretty good team with the potential to knock off anyone when multiple guys shot it well.

As far as recruiting we are in a downward trend and I can't see how anyone can argue against that. We missed out on guys we not only put huge amounts of time and effort into (time that was limited by the NCAA) but also put off other interested players for. This cycle we just missed out on a kid we prioritized during the early AAU season. He went to Nova a non P5 team from Philly where we used to get the players we wanted. We lost Green and Randolf in the 17 class, both Philly kids. Have we lost Philly?

 

[reedny]

If D.C. And 72 didn't go down TT doesn't play as many minutes, and other minutes would've been taken away from Lydon or White. If anything those two going down helped us.

You and Doc5 should get together. Two thirds of our bigs go down, we go from 9 serviceable players to 6, and you both think it's good for the team. Whatever.

 

[reedny]

I'm honestly not sure if you were watching the same team as everybody else. By all accounts Moyer wasn't ready and would not have contributed significantly anyway. I also am not sure if you saw what our vaunted interior defense looked like when a so called healthy DC and PC were in there. And let's all be real -- PC was a complete liability out there. But how anyone could have been depending on DC to contribute all year is a little beyond me if they had watched him the past 4-5 seasons. Without getting into this back and forth, I'll just say it was painfully obvious that the team would have missed the NCAA with or without DC and PC in there. Saying otherwise just sounds like a poor excuse.

Dude, PC COULDN'T SEE. Are you getting that? And you're making DC into a straw man argument - again. Let's go over it one more time: he was expected to contribute, and he had NOTHING, didn't even play towards the latter part of the schedule. And Moyer, no, he wasn't going to start. But he could have provided depth.

If you think losing 3 front line players, including a senior-starter and a 7'2" guy that spent a year practicing, doesn't mean anything -- I can't help you. And I'm not going to take any more time with this.

 

[reedny]

The reason we missed the NCAA's last year was because we sheet the bed in the OOC. We had two losses that were acceptable to South Carolina and @ Wisconsin. Losing to Uconn @ MSG, Gtown at home and of course getting embarrassed by St. Johns at home is what kept us out of the tourney. We were 18-14 and considered the last team out by most. If we won any of those three games it would have been enough to get us in. You can throw that horrible first ACC game road loss @ BC in as well. Winning that would have had us at 11-7 in the ACC which likely does the trick. The team got off to a very bad start and simply wasn't a good enough team to dig out of that hole and overcome it. Even coming down the stretch of the season knowing they were playing for their NCAAT spot we couldn't beat Pitt or G-Tech on the road and we lost to Miami in or only ACCT game.

To me we had a couple guys get in very late, we had some guys coming back that the staff expected a lot of. We had some bad defenders and some bad fits for our defensive system. Everything was disorganized on both ends in the OOC. It really didn't get straightened out until a couple games into the ACC schedule. Some of this is situational but some of it is coaching and knowing what you have. It seems our staff as a whole did a very poor job of identifying the strengths and weaknesses of last years group. They played multiple line ups that handcuffed the team on both ends well into the season. Line ups that many fans here said wouldn't work before they ever saw the team in action. It was a frustrating season because the team had the pieces to be an NCAAT squad and the coaches took too long to figure out the best way to deploy them. I know there were other factors but I think that was the biggest one. We were never going to be a world beaters last year but we could have been a pretty good team with the potential to knock off anyone when multiple guys shot it well.

As far as recruiting we are in a downward trend and I can't see how anyone can argue against that. We missed out on guys we not only put huge amounts of time and effort into (time that was limited by the NCAA) but also put off other interested players for. This cycle we just missed out on a kid we prioritized during the early AAU season. He went to Nova a non P5 team from Philly where we used to get the players we wanted. We lost Green and Randolf in the 17 class, both Philly kids. Have we lost Philly?

And I agree with you that those were the results. I've been talking about the underlying reasons we struggled so mightily. We were down 3 front line players. We were one-dimensional (jump-shooters) offensively with very little guard penetration. We had no low block offense, and we couldn't rebound or defend the lane to save our lives. We had a pF playing center, a 6'10 string bean coming off the bench (who was clueless defensively) and no other depth. TR was an offensive disaster whose minutes JB would have cut in half if he had any options. He didn't. The rest ... you explained.

 

[jordoo]

And I agree with you that those were the results. I've been talking about the underlying reasons we struggled so mightily. We were down 3 front line players. We were one-dimensional (jump-shooters) offensively with very little guard penetration. We had no low block offense, and we couldn't rebound or defend the lane to save our lives. We had a pF playing center, a 6'10 string bean coming off the bench (who was clueless defensively) and no other depth. TR was an offensive disaster whose minutes JB would have cut in half if he had any options. He didn't. The rest ... you explained.

It definitely hurts to lose players to injury especially on a team that doesn't have enough scholarship players to practice 5 on 5 to begin with. That said Chukwu was a disaster out there. I will give him a pass with the eye injury and hope it happened before we saw him play and just got worse later on. What were the coaches seeing in practice that made them think he would be a contributor? He couldn't even figure out how to anchor the press which is hardly complicated. He PASSED the ball out while standing directly under the rim!!!!! He's 7-2 where else would he want the ball? Coleman has been injured his whole career. I love his attitude and work ethic but the staff should have planned for a possible injury and had to have known that laterally he was a liability playing the 5 on defense. Moyer would have been a huge help for practices and a possible option for Roberson's minutes that may have given us some offense but again the staff knew he might not be an option very early on because his injury happened over the summer. Now I hear JB talking about Chukwu being a big contributor this season and I think "that's scary". He's also talking up Howard which is again scary IMO. At least we have other options in both situations this year.

The bottom line is that the staff did a poor job with last years group once they were assembled and then took far too long sorting things out. I'm not sold a healthy Chukwu, DC2 and Moyer make us any better because it would have been three more guys for the staff to sort out. Chukwu and DC2 were not as good as Lydon on D at the 5 and not a whole lot better than TT. DC2 did seem to provide a bit of offense and he always rebounded. Moyer was so far behind physically because he had a foot injury that didn't allow him to work out and practice. You could even say that Chukwu and DC2's injuries forced the staff to play they guys they should have been playing and to put offensive line ups out there. The staff should have identified this much earlier and perhaps they could have coached up the defense better from the perspective of who would be playing the most and what personal packages they would be in. :noidea:

 

[OrangeXtreme]

You and Doc5 should get together. Two thirds of our bigs go down, we go from 9 serviceable players to 6, and you both think it's good for the team. Whatever.

That's nothing.

In 2007-08 we lost Rautins to an ACL before the season even started, we lost Devo in December, Scoop had a broken foot, and one of the walk-ons slipped on the ice and dislocated his shoulder.

The backcourt was Flynn and Harris. Period.

And people thought it was good for the team. :noidea:

 

[reedny]

It definitely hurts to lose players to injury especially on a team that doesn't have enough scholarship players to practice 5 on 5 to begin with. That said Chukwu was a disaster out there. I will give him a pass with the eye injury and hope it happened before we saw him play and just got worse later on. What were the coaches seeing in practice that made them think he would be a contributor? He couldn't even figure out how to anchor the press which is hardly complicated. He PASSED the ball out while standing directly under the rim!!!!! He's 7-2 where else would he want the ball? Coleman has been injured his whole career. I love his attitude and work ethic but the staff should have planned for a possible injury and had to have known that laterally he was a liability playing the 5 on defense. Moyer would have been a huge help for practices and a possible option for Roberson's minutes that may have given us some offense but again the staff knew he might not be an option very early on because his injury happened over the summer. Now I hear JB talking about Chukwu being a big contributor this season and I think "that's scary". He's also talking up Howard which is again scary IMO. At least we have other options in both situations this year.

The bottom line is that the staff did a poor job with last years group once they were assembled and then took far too long sorting things out. I'm not sold a healthy Chukwu, DC2 and Moyer make us any better because it would have been three more guys for the staff to sort out. Chukwu and DC2 were not as good as Lydon on D at the 5 and not a whole lot better than TT. DC2 did seem to provide a bit of offense and he always rebounded. Moyer was so far behind physically because he had a foot injury that didn't allow him to work out and practice. You could even say that Chukwu and DC2's injuries forced the staff to play they guys they should have been playing and to put offensive line ups out there. The staff should have identified this much earlier and perhaps they could have coached up the defense better from the perspective of who would be playing the most and what personal packages they would be in. :noidea:

Most of this is well reasoned, but again, there's little question that depth, beef and experience suffered with the losses of 3 front line players. You mentioned that the losses allowed the staff to bring in players that should have played anyway? Hmmm ... not so sure. TR's minutes were, by JB's own admission, inflated because of lack of depth (we played 4/5 with him in the lineup). To me, TT was a far greater disaster than Chukwu -- even though you're right that Chukwu was lost at times (at least he was closer to the rim than 18 feet and could rebound). TT was lost ALL the time on defense, and he's pretty clearly a stretch 4 like Lydon who was playing out of position. It's no surprise that, without DC2/Chukwu to help with rebounding, we got massacred on the glass against the big boys (all those misses from our jump shots got away). Our whole front line had to rotate one slot out of position.

Overall, I disagree about the effect of all the front line losses (which was significant) -- although as usual you make the argument better than others.

[By Edit - Off topic -- please post a grilling recipe' I can use tomorrow. ]

 

[jordoo]

Most of this is well reasoned, but again, depth, beef and experience suffered with the losses of 3 front line players. You mentioned that the losses allowed the staff to bring in players that should have played anyway? Hmmm ... not so sure. TR's minutes were, by JB's own admission, inflated because of lack of depth. To me, TT was a far greater disaster than Chukwu -- even though you're right that he was lost at times. TT was lost ALL the time on defense, and he's pretty clearly a stretch 4 like Lydon who was playing out of position.

Overall, I disagree about the effect of all the front line losses -- although as usual you make the argument better than others.

I hear you and I agree that depth was a big issue last season as was lack of muscle on the front line. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have those things. I'm more or less saying the guys we had that got hurt didn't provide all that much in the way of defense and they didn't provide nearly as much offense as the other options. Last season we had three players that provided offense but were really bad defensively. (Gillon, White, Thompson) We had a player that provided no offense but was decent on defense (Roberson). We had a player that for whatever reason lost his game on both ends (Howard) Then we had two players that were good on both ends (Lydon, Battle). That was the rotation and it simply didn't have enough guys who were plus contributors on both ends of the court. Zone defense can hide one bad defender and make up for a couple average defenders but it can't hide three bad defenders. Coleman and Chukwu give you two more guys that were at best one way players. Chukwu zero offense and his D was debatable other than being 7-2. Coleman some offense but his D was very limited because the injuries killed his lateral movement. Moyer if he had been healthy all summer is the only one that may have been able to provide a plus player on both ends last season. That was the real weakness of last years squad, too many one way players.

That is one reason to be optimistic of this years squad. All the guys we brought in look to have the size and athletic ability to at least not be poor defenders in our system. They also all have some offensive ability so we have that going for us.

 

[SoBristol]

So, you lump White as weak on defense, and don't mention that he carried the offense? While Lydon struggled to create any offense for long stretches?

 

[jordoo]

So, you lump White as weak on defense, and don't mention that he carried the offense? While Lydon struggled to create any offense for long stretches?

I was laying out the basic reason our team struggled. I was illustrating the fact that we had many players who were deficient in their performances on one end of the floor. I think its pretty accurate to say that Lydon and Battle were our only players who were plus performers on both ends. That doesn't mean I think Lydon had a better offensive season that White. White was a poor defender but did get better as the season went on and he played only the wing. White was huge for us on offense and may have had the best shooting season of any orange player ever when you look at the way he was defended.

 

[Edfromsodus]

 

[doc05]

Dude, PC COULDN'T SEE. Are you getting that? And you're making DC into a straw man argument - again. Let's go over it one more time: he was expected to contribute, and he had NOTHING, didn't even play towards the latter part of the schedule. And Moyer, no, he wasn't going to start. But he could have provided depth.

If you think losing 3 front line players, including a senior-starter and a 7'2" guy that spent a year practicing, doesn't mean anything -- I can't help you. And I'm not going to take any more time with this.

Thank you for making my point for me. Let me make this brief and simple (and end this back and forth with your walls of text). PC was indeed expected to contribute and didn't -- whether from an eye injury or not. He could have been in there all season - and guess what - it likely wouldn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things (aka making the NCAA). Further, if we were all hanging our hats on MM providing depth and some kind of significant contribution, from all accounts we were in for a rude awakening.

Not sure where you see I said it was "good for the team" that these players went down lol? Your point was that our fates were somehow sealed with the 'devastating injuries' in the front court, that this caused the team to under perform, and that other teams like Duke wouldn't have been able to cope either :/. What's abundantly clear to most on here is that DC, PC and MM could have been playing all season and we still would have struggled, and that those injuries are not a good excuse for why we failed to make the tournament.

Now go enjoy your 4th and have a beer.

 

[SoBristol]

I was laying out the basic reason our team struggled. I was illustrating the fact that we had many players who were deficient in their performances on one end of the floor. I think its pretty accurate to say that Lydon and Battle were our only players who were plus performers on both ends. That doesn't mean I think Lydon had a better offensive season that White. White was a poor defender but did get better as the season went on and he played only the wing. White was huge for us on offense and may have had the best shooting season of any orange player ever when you look at the way he was defended.

White rounded out as an average defender, and an exceptional scorer. More than met pre-season expectations.

If Lydon had come closer to expectations on the offensive end, this team would have made the tournament. But he struggled to create his shot, and was easily defended on the perimeter.

 

[SoBristol]

I was laying out the basic reason our team struggled. I was illustrating the fact that we had many players who were deficient in their performances on one end of the floor. I think its pretty accurate to say that Lydon and Battle were our only players who were plus performers on both ends. That doesn't mean I think Lydon had a better offensive season that White. White was a poor defender but did get better as the season went on and he played only the wing. White was huge for us on offense and may have had the best shooting season of any orange player ever when you look at the way he was defended.

White rounded out as an average defender, and an exceptional scorer. More than met pre-season expectations.

If Lydon had come closer to expectations on the offensive end, this team would have made the tournament. But he struggled to create his shot, and was easily defended on the perimeter.

 

[Cusefan0307]

White rounded out as an average defender, and an exceptional scorer. More than met pre-season expectations.

If Lydon had come closer to expectations on the offensive end, this team would have made the tournament. But he struggled to create his shot, and was easily defended on the perimeter.

Lydon had the highest net rating on the team by a wide margin. So weird that people's anger over the season is focused on him.

 

[two3zone]

That's nothing.

In 2007-08 we lost Rautins to an ACL before the season even started, we lost Devo in December, Scoop had a broken foot, and one of the walk-ons slipped on the ice and dislocated his shoulder.

The backcourt was Flynn and Harris. Period.

And people thought it was good for the team. :noidea:

Big difference, I'd take a half a Rautins and a quarter of Devo over 100 DCs and 72s. Not even comparable.