St. John's game, a second look

[Dave85]

I just watch the St.John's game a second time off my DVR. The game was a lot closer than I thought. With two minutes to go St. John's could have easily won this game. They miss three shots, we made three shots. If it were the other way around it would have been a loss. This may not play well when we face Villanova, UNC, Pittsburgh, Wake, or Duke. We shall see.

All the talk of Ennis and Grant going the NBA is a little over the top for me right now. They are great players. But so many players leave college too early in my opinion and get tagged with "DNP COACH'S DECISION" on every game. The talent level in the NBA is so much higher than college. The money is great but having playing time is the only way to get better.

 

[dasher]

I just watch the St.John's game a second time off my DVR. The game was a lot closer than I thought. With two minutes to go St. John's could have easily won this game. They miss three shots, we made three shots. If it were the other way around it would have been a loss. This may not play well when we face Villanova, UNC, Pittsburgh, Wake, or Duke. We shall see.

All the talk of Ennis and Grant going the NBA is a little over the top for me right now. They are great players. But so many players leave college too early in my opinion and get tagged with "DNP COACH'S DECISION" on every game. The talent level in the NBA is so much higher than college. The money is great but having playing time is the only way to get better.

This game had nothing to do with how we will play against anyone else. We stepped up when we had to and St. John's couldn't.

 

[Dave85]

This game had nothing to do with how we will play against anyone else. We stepped up when we had to and St. John's couldn't.

St.John's missed 3 shots in the last two minutes. I just think teams like Duke are going to make those shots. That is all I am saying. I think all the NBA talk is over the top. This team has a lot of work to do on both ends of the court before March.

 

[PhatOrange]

The Grant NBA talk is nutty for sure.

 

[Dave85]

The Grant NBA talk is nutty for sure.

Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Jerami Grant 9 27.2 13.2 6.0 1.9 0.7 0.8 0.8 .537 .608 .000

For college those are good numbers. For the NBA, those numbers have "DNP COACH'S DECISION" all over them. I have nothing but best wishes for Grant. And there is no doubt in my mind he will get drafted based on his "potential". But getting playing time in the NBA is a whole different animal than getting playing time in college.

 

[two3zone]

The Grant NBA talk is nutty for sure.

Why is it nutty? He's exactly the type the NBA looks for and drafts.


You were probably in the camp that MCW couldn't leave either.

 

[Dave85]

Why is it nutty? He's exactly the type the NBA looks for and drafts.


You were probably in the camp that MCW couldn't leave either.

See my post above. MCW is the exception because he was a tall guard. Kind of unusual.

 

[Jack Hall]

I just watch the St.John's game a second time off my DVR. The game was a lot closer than I thought. With two minutes to go St. John's could have easily won this game. They miss three shots, we made three shots. If it were the other way around it would have been a loss. This may not play well when we face Villanova, UNC, Pittsburgh, Wake, or Duke. We shall see.

All the talk of Ennis and Grant going the NBA is a little over the top for me right now. They are great players. But so many players leave college too early in my opinion and get tagged with "DNP COACH'S DECISION" on every game. The talent level in the NBA is so much higher than college. The money is great but having playing time is the only way to get better.

I ll stay off the Ennis grant draft thing and whether or not they will be back because that is such a crapshoot but I agree w you. We have weaknesses and it will bite us in the arse eventually , maybe even against Villanova. I am not too worried tho. Look at the most talented teams, which based on next yrs draft should be uk and ku (we are up there too if Ennis and grant keep progressing). IMO those two teams are the most talented but as of this moment they have so many weaknesses, maybe even more than us. Bottom line is there is so much parity. IMO it's not about if we lose a game to vill or wake or duke. It's about getting better and progressing. Look at the path of the 2003 title team, lost to Memphis early, didn't win the big east outright, didn't win the big east tournament. But they kept showing signs of progress every month, got hot at the right time and won it all. jB says we have to get better, IMO that's the thing to watch, not every game, but month to month, it's just tough for an ADHD guy like me to do...go Orange!

 

[Jack Hall]

I just watch the St.John's game a second time off my DVR. The game was a lot closer than I thought. With two minutes to go St. John's could have easily won this game. They miss three shots, we made three shots. If it were the other way around it would have been a loss. This may not play well when we face Villanova, UNC, Pittsburgh, Wake, or Duke. We shall see.

All the talk of Ennis and Grant going the NBA is a little over the top for me right now. They are great players. But so many players leave college too early in my opinion and get tagged with "DNP COACH'S DECISION" on every game. The talent level in the NBA is so much higher than college. The money is great but having playing time is the only way to get better.

And the other thing is so far this team has exceeded most expectations which I am thrilled w. But the flip side of that and common sense tells you at some pt we will stop exceeding expectations (ESP if expectations continue to go up) for a few games. It will be a roller coaster just like last season no? I need to learn to embrace that...

 

[Dave85]

And the other thing is so far this team has exceeded most expectations which I am thrilled w. But the flip side of that and common sense tells you at some pt we will stop exceeding expectations (ESP if expectations continue to go up) for a few games. It will be a roller coaster just like last season no? I need to learn to embrace that...

I love this team. But talking about Grant and Ennis going to the NBA with where this team is now is over the top for me. If this team gets to the final four, final game, or wins a NC only then would I seriously consider Grant and Ennis for the NBA draft. If they leave early without serious college accomplishments I just think it is going to be a short NBA career for both of them.

As far as this team is concerned, if JB can get the defense to the level it was at around the BET last season, this team will be historic! I don't think TC is a fluke. And I think by March Ennis will not miss the three layups he missed against St. Johns. And I think by March JB will come up with a play that allows Silent G to contribute on offense.

 

[Jack Hall]

I love this team. But talking about Grant and Ennis going to the NBA with where this team is now is over the top for me. If this team gets to the final four, final game, or wins a NC only then would I seriously consider Grant and Ennis for the NBA draft. If they leave early without serious college accomplishments I just think it is going to be a short NBA career for both of them.

As far as this team is concerned, if JB can get the defense to the level it was at around the BET, this team will be historic! I don't think TC is a fluke. And I think by March Ennis will not miss the three layups he missed against St. Johns. And I think by March JB will come up with a play that allows Silent G to contribute on offense.

I hear you but my own gut instinct, grant will be gone and Ennis will be back. Certain gms want freakish athletes and when you look at that two handed block and several Hilite dunks , everyone can see grant fits that bill and has enough basketball skill to go along w his athleticism. To me grants season so far is completely paralleling dion and mcws sophomore yr. look at their stats, all three are exceptional athletes too.....

 

[Jack Hall]

I hear you but my own gut instinct, grant will be gone and Ennis will be back. Certain gms want freakish athletes and when you look at that two handed block and several Hilite dunks , everyone can see grant fits that bill and has enough basketball skill to go along w his athleticism. To me grants season so far is completely paralleling dion and mcws sophomore yr. look at their stats, all three are exceptional athletes too.....

And do you really think dion and MCW will have short nba careers? I don't think MCW will if he has good health. As for dion, of course he needs to stay healthy but more importantly he needs to screw his head on straight IMO if he wants to stay in nba. Demanding a trade from the cavs IMO is not remotely helping his nba career. ESP if Lebron winds up coming back. IMO dion needs to let go of his petty thing with Irving and start thinking long term...

 

[Delmar]

I just watch the St.John's game a second time off my DVR. The game was a lot closer than I thought. With two minutes to go St. John's could have easily won this game. They miss three shots, we made three shots. If it were the other way around it would have been a loss. This may not play well when we face Villanova, UNC, Pittsburgh, Wake, or Duke. We shall see.

So far we have played very well when the game was on the line. This team appears to know how to win. That's a factor that doesn't show up in stats except win/loss percentage. That bodes very well for whoever is on the schedule. And as you say, we shall see.

 

[Orange Barrel]

St.John's missed 3 shots in the last two minutes. I just think teams like Duke are going to make those shots.

I think you have to give the defense some credit. It's not the first time our opponent has stopped scoring at the end of the game.
St. Francis scoreless final 4:10.
Minnesota scoreless final 2:00.

 

[pfister1]

In re: the NBA and early entry. I'll never understand why it is thought that guys can only develop their games and get stronger if they stay in college? Why? Why? That theory defies logic. Once you become a pro you can devote all of your time to improving your game and getting stronger.....no more NCAA limits on practice time or season length...no more requirement to attend classes and actually complete unrelated academic work (well for those that actually live by those requirments today). If you are committed to being the best you can be, spend some money and hire a personal trainer to help you develop your game in the areas that aren't developed being on an NBA roster as a young first rounder.

And really, if teams spend millions on these kids and then just roll out the balls and don't bother trying to develop them at all I would be SHOCKED. Maybe what we are really seeing is how imperfect the talent scouting system is, and those kids that don't make it as early entrants just weren't as good as the scouts thought in their limited exposure to them. Maybe if they had stayed in school they still would have washed out just as quickly as they did as early entrants?

I say if you are likely to get a multi-year guaranteed contract now and that is your dream......then go now. Just be sure that you in the position that you think you are in.

So few guys make it. When you are high on the radar it is almost dumb not to jump. For god's sake Buy high, sell low...your stock isn't always going to continue to rise. At some point its gotten as high as its going to get, or close enough to its peak that it makes sense to cash in and take the money... "Ready" or not.

 

[Jack Hall]

In re: the NBA and early entry. I'll never understand why it is thought that guys can only develop their games and get stronger if they stay in college? Why? Why? That theory defies logic. Once you become a pro you can devote all of your time to improving your game and getting stronger.....no more NCAA limits on practice time or season length...no more requirement to attend classes and actually complete unrelated academic work (well for those that actually live by those requirments today). If you are committed to being the best you can be, spend some money and hire a personal trainer to help you develop your game in the areas that aren't developed being on an NBA roster as a young first rounder.

And really, if teams spend millions on these kids and then just roll out the balls and don't bother trying to develop them at all I would be SHOCKED. Maybe what we are really seeing is how imperfect the talent scouting system is, and those kids that don't make it as early entrants just weren't as good as the scouts thought in their limited exposure to them. Maybe if they had stayed in school they still would have washed out just as quickly as they did as early entrants?

I say if you are likely to get a multi-year guaranteed contract now and that is your dream......then go now. Just be sure that you in the position that you think you are in.

So few guys make it. When you are high on the radar it is almost dumb not to jump. For god's sake Buy high, sell low...your stock isn't always going to continue to rise. At some point its gotten as high as its going to get, or close enough to its peak that it makes sense to cash in and take the money... "Ready" or not.

I agree but will say, for whatever reason, it would appear to me kids who make nba but don't play in games, tough to get better. There must be plenty o examples but seriously, give me examples of kids who sat on the bench for two three yrs, practiced their tails off and then when given the chance excelled. I bet there are only a handful of examples?

 

[Timonen]

I agree but will say, for whatever reason, it would appear to me kids who make nba but don't play in games, tough to get better. There must be plenty o examples but seriously, give me examples of kids who sat on the bench for two three yrs, practiced their tails off and then when given the chance excelled. I bet there are only a handful of examples?

Tracy McGrady. Jermaine oneil, Kobe, al Harrington, Chauncey billups, jalen rose. The model can work. Part of the issue is whether guys get picked by crappy teams that force them into the rotation. Watching and playing limited minutes for a good team seems to be a sound option, if doable.

 

[moqui]

St.John's missed 3 shots in the last two minutes. I just think teams like Duke are going to make those shots. That is all I am saying. I think all the NBA talk is over the top. This team has a lot of work to do on both ends of the court before March.

We all get it that you really, really, really don't want your favorite Orangemen to go to the pros, but they are not going to be convinced by your arguments argument because they don't read the forum.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I agree but will say, for whatever reason, it would appear to me kids who make nba but don't play in games, tough to get better. There must be plenty o examples but seriously, give me examples of kids who sat on the bench for two three yrs, practiced their tails off and then when given the chance excelled. I bet there are only a handful of examples?

I just watch the St.John's game a second time off my DVR. The game was a lot closer than I thought. With two minutes to go St. John's could have easily won this game. They miss three shots, we made three shots. If it were the other way around it would have been a loss. This may not play well when we face Villanova, UNC, Pittsburgh, Wake, or Duke. We shall see.

All the talk of Ennis and Grant going the NBA is a little over the top for me right now. They are great players. But so many players leave college too early in my opinion and get tagged with "DNP COACH'S DECISION" on every game. The talent level in the NBA is so much higher than college. The money is great but having playing time is the only way to get better.

1000% wrong. You get better in the off season and in practice, not in games.

 

[Dave85]

We all get it that you really, really, really don't want your favorite Orangemen to go to the pros, but they are not going to be convinced by your arguments argument because they don't read the forum.

What an idiotic comment. It's not about Grant leaving and him being my "favorite Orangemen". As I've said many times. There's no doubt in my mind that he will get drafted. Here's my prediction: "DNP COACH'S DECISION".

So you think Grant will actually get playing time after he's drafted?

 

[Dave85]

1000% wrong. You get better in the off season and in practice, not in games.

Do you have a example player's career you can reference?

 

[jekelish]

St.John's missed 3 shots in the last two minutes. I just think teams like Duke are going to make those shots. That is all I am saying. I think all the NBA talk is over the top. This team has a lot of work to do on both ends of the court before March.

SJU is far better defensively than Duke. We will get better shots against them. Duke is obviously more talented but is poor defensively. So comparing the two is kind of pointless.

 

[moqui]

So you think Grant will actually get playing time after he's drafted?

yes, I do . . . and further, I'm pretty sure you don't actually watch a lot of NBA games

 

[pfister1]

What an idiotic comment. It's not about Grant leaving and him being my "favorite Orangemen". As I've said many times. There's no doubt in my mind that he will get drafted. Here's my prediction: "DNP COACH'S DECISION".

So you think Grant will actually get playing time after he's drafted?

I doubt he will leave unless he is likely to be drafted in the lottery, or just outside the lottery. If he gets drafted there he will not be a DNP, so YES after he is drafted he will get playing time. Might he ultimately flame out...sure, it is a possibility with every player that goes to the league.

 

[Dave85]

yes, I do . . . and further, I'm pretty sure you don't actually watch a lot of NBA games

Only if there's not a good college game. I got turned off on the NBA after watching a Laker playoff game a few years ago. The officiated was so one sided to force a game 7 it really turned me off. Major hacks on one end and touch fouls on the other. Why play the game at all with that kind of officiating. Maybe it's better nowadays. But I am still jaded since that game.

How many NBA games do you watch every month?