SU-Wisconsin series cancelled

[bcubs9497]

I'm a bit late to this, but good. Why, with SU in the toughest division of the (arguably) toughest conference in the country, would we want to schedule teams that will only add to the pounding the players take in every game of in-conference play? Give the kids a break.

 

[djorange1989]

I'm a bit late to this, but good. Why, with SU in the toughest division of the (arguably) toughest conference in the country, would we want to schedule teams that will only add to the pounding the players take in every game of in-conference play? Give the kids a break.

Never too late for a logical take on this

 

[OrangeMaNPD]

Every year you have the option of watching a dude throw a flaming spear into the 50 yard line or busses circling a stadium and watching a stream of young men running downhill (settle Chip ) touching a rock risking a sprained ankle.

Been to Madison plenty of times, nice people but this is best for us by far.

Yes, great point. We play in a historic college football venue every other year and also have our trips to Notre Dame. No need to wax poetic about Camp Randall. This is a good thing for the program.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Let me walk that back a little since i did a quick search and may be mistaken about "parents" plural. I do distinctly recall bcubs saying as much though during one of our usual scheduling threads.

On a selfish level, I was looking forward to checking out Madison, UW and Camp Randall, a place i would otherwise never venture to. I hope the replacement, if not a local team like UMASS, UBuff, etc., is a decent destination in an area we recruit (e.g., Northwestern, Illinois, Arizona, ASU, etc.).

My overarching point is who cares about playing in third-tier bowl games? Since when is that the mark of a good program. The best thing about this year was beating Clemson. The next best thing was punching LSU, Miami, and FSU in the face. If we had beaten MTSU, and one of the other conference foes, playing in a bowl would not have been a season high point (though I do think the kids like them b/c of the swag) regardless.

Winning begets winning.

Personally, I suspect we're going to need to make some lower tier bowls before we're ready to compete in a higher tier bowl.

 

[Stern]

This is a good point. But if they get left out this year, that may change.

No it won't.

 

[HtownOrange]

With our unique system and Dino, and the Carrier Dome - which is a “weird” venue for opponents - a Cuse team with a little more depth, speed, and talent could be the kind of team that can knock off better teams. We’ve pulled a big home upset two years in a row. We could become the kind of program that’s a pain in the butt to play even for programs that are better than us.

We were there once, nobody wanted to play in the Dome because it was a tough pace to play: Noise, flat field, hot/humid, and one tough opponent that could take down anyone, anywhere. HCDB has us back on track. As you stated, a little more depth, talent and speed is all it will take.

 

[Stern]

As I said, our schedule is hard because we are not good. You want us to schedule easy to ensure a bowl game and more wins because you believe its better for the program. I like our scheduling, because i believe it is fair, I enjoy and value the "big games" more than bowl games. I think Dino is firmly with you.

Wrong, 100% wrong on every level. Going to a bowl games gets you MORE PRACTICES and essentially a whole extra session of "spring ball" so you can further work and develop your players. We are in the ACC where damn near the entire ACC goes to a bowl game, they get their spring ball in the spring then they get that BONUS spring ball period after the season as they prepare for the bowl game. Which most schools who aren't playing for a title or in some huge game use to prepare the players who will be on the team NEXT year and put in alot of work with them during those extra practices.

When every team we compete against is getting essentially an extra session of spring ball and we aren't, we will never catch up or be able to compete with them. The have their coaches spending extra time, having numerous extra practices and are able to develop and grow their players faster. While our kids aren't getting that.

It's NOT about the crappy bowl game!!! Yes that is one small perk going to something like that, it's about being able to get more time with the players you recruit so you can get them up to speed and develop them into better players faster. More practices is a good thing, we have a football program that is handicapped vs the teams we compete against in our conference. So yeah schedule easier, rack up wins, get to go to bowl games because those extra practices are priceless.

 

[Stern]

I think that's an impossible objective. I mean Tennessee, Florida, FSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Auburn, Nebraska and so many other historical powers have had losing seasons recently. Nobody is guaranteed anything.

We have had three winning seasons in the past 16 seasons. The idea that we will get to a point where 6 wins are "guaranteed" just isn't realistic.

We will never be at "guaranteed" but get to a point where its "more likely" and "more realistic"

If I were to hand you a baseball bat and say if you get a base hit I will give you $1000. But I can have one guy throw you a 95 mph fastball or you can have someone else throw you a 75mph fastball. You pick who you want. There is no guarantee you will get the hit, but of course you will pick the guy throwing the 75 mph fastball because your "odds" are better as its a slower pitch. Nothing is guaranteed, but we are playing the "ODDS" and putting our self in a better position to succeed. That's it !

 

[HtownOrange]

Like scumbag Paterno did to us when we finally starting beating them! Except that one was true

Fair statement. Not sure why you are being easy on Paterno (scumbags should be offended that one so low is raised to their level and lumped in with them), but, you are probably a better person than me.

Seriously, you are correct. Much of his career, he owned the Orangemen and gave up on his "dream" of an eastern CFB conference, which was his to have if he would have compromised a little. And back then, we could have had FSU, Miami, WVU, and any other indy on the east coast in one monster conference.

 

[721Comstock]

This is an important point. People here are infatuated with the idea that somehow third tier bowl games will attract recruits. Big time nationally televised regular season matchups get much more attention around the country than random bowl games.

Actually the exact opposite is true.
Crappy random bowls have better ratings than our marquee OOC games.

Plus the extra practices and more $ and greater rep that you get from being a winning program that plays in bowl games every year,
vs a close loss at say LSU.

 

[HtownOrange]

I get it. I really do. And I respect your opinion also. My concern is just that I want to get to the point of having a 'guaranteed' 6 wins a year, based on schedule. Then, we can think about putting an OOC high-level P5 team on the schedule in addition to the regulars.

Spot on, we are NOT Rutgers (Or VATech for that matter) where we schedule to only get to 6 wins and mediocrity. This is a temporary move for development to achieve a specific goal of getting to six wins/bowl games regularly and then building towards the next step, and then the next, and then the next, ultimately competing for division, conference and, potentially, national championships. The tough OOC games will return as we improve.

To compete for the NC, teams need to have at least one respectable OOC victory. This is the argument against Wiscy, because teh conference as a whole is weak, and they played no OOC competition, do they really deserve to be in the playoffs over several teams that played far tougher schedules than Wiscy. And this assumes Wiscy wins the B1G title today, otherwise teh discussion is moot and they never see playoffs.

 

[All4SU]

Point is, we’re tapped out by November every year.

We could possibly compete with Wisconsin in a September game right now and maybe have a 10-25% chance of beating them depending on if it’s home or away...so what? We don’t need it if we’re going to FSU and Miami back to back, a few weeks later, and then end up having a defense whose limbs are being held together by soft casts and duct tape for the last couple games.

Let's schedule all of our OOC games in November.

 

[Eric15]

If I were to hand you a baseball bat and say if you get a base hit I will give you $1000. But I can have one guy throw you a 95 mph fastball or you can have someone else throw you a 75mph fastball. You pick who you want.

Your answer to that hypothetical would clearly be, "instead of having an adult pitch to me, is it OK if I just hit off a tee so I can be absolutely sure I get a hit?"

 

[sufandu]

Point is, we’re tapped out by November every year.

We could possibly compete with Wisconsin in a September game right now and maybe have a 10-25% chance of beating them depending on if it’s home or away...so what? We don’t need it if we’re going to FSU and Miami back to back, a few weeks later, and then end up having a defense whose limbs are being held together by soft casts and duct tape for the last couple games.

Do we always expect this to be the case? If it's still happening after Dino has 4 classes, shouldn't we be looking for a new coach?

If this were next year or even 2019, I get it. We need some cushion to get the ball rolling. By 2020 we should be at the point where the MTSU mess isn't a possibility and we've solidly passed at least 2 of NC State, Pitt, WF, and BC. Someone will drop back. We won't have to play the Coastal champ every year like we have the last two years.

We should eventually be fine with scheduling one top 25 team, which is closer to what Wisconsin is. Top 10 finishes two years in a row is not normal for them. They finished 21 in 2015, 13 in 2014, 20 in 2013 and unranked in 2012. That's not the type of team we should be scared of 5-6 years into the rebuild.

People cite Alabama's weak schedule. I'll counter with Clemson's. They know they'll have their rivalry game with South Carolina, but they have scheduled Auburn, Georgia, or ND every year since 2010. One OOC team that's typically in the bottom half of the top 25 shouldn't scare us by 2020.

 

[OrangeDW]

Do we always expect this to be the case? If it's still happening after Dino has 4 classes, shouldn't we be looking for a new coach?

If this were next year or even 2019, I get it. We need some cushion to get the ball rolling. By 2020 we should be at the point where the MTSU mess isn't a possibility and we've solidly passed at least 2 of NC State, Pitt, WF, and BC. Someone will drop back. We won't have to play the Coastal champ every year like we have the last two years.

We should eventually be fine with scheduling one top 25 team, which is closer to what Wisconsin is. Top 10 finishes two years in a row is not normal for them. They finished 21 in 2015, 13 in 2014, 20 in 2013 and unranked in 2012. That's not the type of team we should be scared of 5-6 years into the rebuild.

People cite Alabama's weak schedule. I'll counter with Clemson's. They know they'll have their rivalry game with South Carolina, but they have scheduled Auburn, Georgia, or ND every year since 2010. One OOC team that's typically in the bottom half of the top 25 shouldn't scare us by 2020.

I’d say, let’s get there first?

When we actually pass a couple of those teams and start going to bowls and maybe making some top 25 appearances ourselves, then maybe we can add a Wisconsin to our already top notch schedule.

Let’s give ourselves a chance to stop crawling and start walking around for a bit first before we try to run. We aren’t Clemson.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do we always expect this to be the case? If it's still happening after Dino has 4 classes, shouldn't we be looking for a new coach?

If this were next year or even 2019, I get it. We need some cushion to get the ball rolling. By 2020 we should be at the point where the MTSU mess isn't a possibility and we've solidly passed at least 2 of NC State, Pitt, WF, and BC. Someone will drop back. We won't have to play the Coastal champ every year like we have the last two years.

We should eventually be fine with scheduling one top 25 team, which is closer to what Wisconsin is. Top 10 finishes two years in a row is not normal for them. They finished 21 in 2015, 13 in 2014, 20 in 2013 and unranked in 2012. That's not the type of team we should be scared of 5-6 years into the rebuild.

People cite Alabama's weak schedule. I'll counter with Clemson's. They know they'll have their rivalry game with South Carolina, but they have scheduled Auburn, Georgia, or ND every year since 2010. One OOC team that's typically in the bottom half of the top 25 shouldn't scare us by 2020.

Right, but Clemson doesn't have to play Clemson.

 

[TheCusian]

So assuming a loss against LSU type teams, you don’t feel we can get to the point where we go 6 - 5 against the balance of the schedule? We lost to MTSU, BC, and Wake at home. That’s why we’re at home this Bowl season. Not because we lost to LSU. As the roster and depth develops, if we have sny faith in what Dino is doing at all, those types of losses will disappear.

This take makes no sense.

It’s about maximizing the chances of a bowl game. Playing Rutgers instead of LSU would have given us a better shot. Maybe we aren’t as beat up?

 

[orange79]

I think that's an impossible objective. I mean Tennessee, Florida, FSU, Michigan, Penn State, Texas, Auburn, Nebraska and so many other historical powers have had losing seasons recently. Nobody is guaranteed anything.

We have had three winning seasons in the past 16 seasons. The idea that we will get to a point where 6 wins are "guaranteed" just isn't realistic.

That's why I put 'guaranteed' in quotes. And I don't think it is unreasonable to expect to win at least 6 games a year. That's what I meant by 'guaranteed'.

 

[Trueblue25]

Fine with this. We play fsu and clemson annually.


Schedule Maryland, ISU, WVU, Rutgers or someone who competes for our recruits. That is all.

 

[HtownOrange]

Right, but Clemson doesn't have to play Clemson.

Nah, they have it worse, they play Syracuse annually!

 

[SUFaninNJ]

My niece is a frost at UW now. Was hoping to go to the game and tie it in with a visit. C’est la vie

 

[Trueblue25]

You people want historic venues? Schedule TN.

Id love that and we seem to compete with them monthly for recruits

 

[orangeinjersey]

would love to get RUtgers back on the schedule.

 

[Oakland]

Hell yeah - 10 (or 14) years too late, and SU still isn't the one that initiated it.

this is good, right?

 

[Stevenson]

I’d rather play Wisconsin and possibly upset them than finish 6-6 and play some Mac team in the Detroit Misery Bowl any day of the week.