Time to Realize: B1G wants and needs the EAST and mid-Atlantic

[Lawrinson14]

I say F the South.

Put the hoop tourney at MSG and the football Championship in Giants Stadium.

Welcome to the new ACC.

If this is truly the Atlantic Coast Conference, it only makes sense to play these games in the premiere Atlantic Coast city...NYC. I know, I know, Meadowlands is close enough to be counted as NYC.

 

[Alsacs]

Again, I can say this I have found out from somebody I trust that SU signed a non-disclosure agreement with the B1G in 2011, but WE NEVER had an official invitation from the B1G according to what I know. I preferred the ACC over the B1G just because of the schools we would be affiliated with, but no way if the B1G offered would SU have turned it down even if Doug Marrone was against it.
I believe what you posted, but I don't believe Marrone could have led SU to turn down the B1G because the payout from the B1G would have been practically impossible for Cantor/Gross to turn down. I am glad we are in the ACC and am now a complete F B1G guy, but I can't believe Marrone led us to turn the B1G. Also, the SU faculty would have DESTROYED Cantor for letting the football coach turn down the ability for the SU to join the CIC.

 

[Alsacs]

LOL...I like the enthusiasm. Neither is going to happen, but, the choices are for sure intriguing.

Kaiser is one of our board's top posters who speaks from the hip and doesn't hide his opinions. I think the ACC should move the basketball tournament between MSG and Greensboro and just leave the Football Championship in Charlotte. Charlotte airport is a US airways hub for SU fans when we make the Championship game hopefully, and the 4 NC schools, Clemson, Virginia Tech fans should be able to pack if they make it to the game. When I went 2 years VPI-Clemson the BOA crowd was great, but last year was weak because of a 6-6 Georgia Tech team and Florida State disappointing turnout from its fans.

 

[longtimefan]

As we have posted previously, and actually before Gee's comments about the B1G blocking strategy and desire to build the east and mid-atlantic geographic areas for its conference and BTN, the B1G continues to make inroads.

Source believes that Maryland and Rutgers were not the preferred choices (it was Notre Dame, Boston College, and Syracuse), but certainly did what the B1G wanted to accomplish...move into the ACC territory and do so in a relatively big way..."eyeballs" if nothing else. But has the B1G stopped there...NO.

In the recent hours, the B1G took Johns Hopkins as a LAX associate (just so you know the B1G tried to offer Notre Dame an associative membership but was refuted--that is not going to happen--most likely ever). Johns Hopkins brings three positives to the B1G:

• Ensures an automatic bid for the LAX tourney--6 teams (something the ACC does not as yet have but is working on very quickly among its present non LAX conference members to do so)
• Another piece of the ACC middle--the mid-Atlantic
• One of the most prestigious universities as well as the leading research university for medical research and the $$ attributed to it.

Now comes word that the B1G is signing up with the Pinstripe Bowl (the ACC will also play a roll here). This of course is of interest because this too plays into the B1G strategy of desiring the East-middle atlantic geographic area. As importantly,

• Pinstripe Bowl places B1G squarely in competition to the ACC in the East
• The PR announcement is this afternoon with folks from B1G, Fox and Yankees in attendance (notice which conference is missing)
• Remember that Fox has purchased 49% of Yes network...so it has the Yankees in its coverage which means no doubt the BTN gets on Yes network
• Rumors--and have been informed correct--B1G will also do other events in Yankee stadium...hmmm, football games anyone
• B1G is looking into Brooklyn and NYC for bbball also...again confirmed.

If you recall my previous post on the JHU conundrum, I believe that Gee's words as revolting as they were concerning Catholics etc, had truth relative to B1G strategy...which is simply to find a new geographic location to make up for the decline of the Rust Belt. The battle for the East and mid-atlantic is not over...it is continuing. Would this have happened in this time frame if Notre Dame and the ACC had not gotten together? I believe not this time frame but at least we know now for sure what is on the plate for the B1G. The wolf is unclothed.

There are good things coming from the ACC--so no despair here (more soon)...but, but we have been warned and being proactive is the only course to follow.
What do you think should be the ACC reaction...discuss and have fun.
It's Good To Be 'Cuse!!!!!

Not that we need any confirmation--but our old buddy Frank the Tank posted today about the 2 recent B1G moves. And from their perspective, it's all about aggressively moving into the East Coast Megalopolis.
http://frankthetank.me/

 

[rottweiler44]

Again, I can say this I have found out from somebody I trust that SU signed a non-disclosure agreement with the B1G in 2011, but WE NEVER had an official invitation from the B1G according to what I know. I preferred the ACC over the B1G just because of the schools we would be affiliated with, but no way if the B1G offered would SU have turned it down even if Doug Marrone was against it.
I believe what you posted, but I don't believe Marrone could have led SU to turn down the B1G because the payout from the B1G would have been practically impossible for Cantor/Gross to turn down. I am glad we are in the ACC and am now a complete F B1G guy, but I can't believe Marrone led us to turn the B1G. Also, the SU faculty would have DESTROYED Cantor for letting the football coach turn down the ability for the SU to join the CIC.

It didn't make a ton of sense back in September 2011, but I do remember Andy Katz saying the surprise ACC invite was the result of a "panic" about where Syracuse was going to end up. Piecing it together now, this was probably about the ACC learning about the NDA between SU and B1G.

If all of this was going on, the University should truly be commended for the way they conducted their business. No rumors, no innuendo, no public grandstanding...so opposite of some others.

 

[Chip]

People need to realize the B1G is coming after the ACC and ACC needs to respond appropriately. Which is too win on the field increase its football brand and continue being a great overall conference. The SEC will own college football, the Pac-12 will own the West Coast, the B1G owns the Midwest and is trying to get into the East, the Big XII owns Texas and Southwest, and the ACC needs to own the Northeast/Southeast areas.

I think the ACC is doing their part. Working on MSG for conference hoops tourney, grant of rights, and likely the opposite partner in the Pinstripe right?

Delany was in the booth tonight for a half inning with the YES crew. They asked him "Big 10 vs who? I'm sure you know but you can't say" Delany said "exactly. The Yankees are still negotiating with the other party". If that other party is the ACC, then the ACC gets their big promo day with the Yankee brass, and a sign, right? Plus as promos go, I think it's better to go last.

Who else could be that other party?

 

[Townie72]

Don't know who your source is/was, but no way in hell did doogie freakin marrones opinion matter. Not sure if u meant that, but it had to be said in case u did.


I can't imagine anyone turning down an offer either.

You are right, Kaiser. At best, Marrone's thoughts or feelings on this would have had little weight.

It's possible that the B1G sent out feelers to SU top brass about SU's interest in joining the B1G. And Doug may have been consulted and may have said he was against it. But that doesn't mean any real weight was assigned to his opinion by the University decision makers.

Doug was free to decide who started at QB. Decisions on the future of the University are made by others at a much higher pay grade.

Another coach, James Arthur Boeheim, was against SU joining the ACC. We all know what happened there.

 

[omniorange]

I was not going to post this,but a relative of mine who knows Doug Marrone very well on the local and state football operations flat out told and confirmed this to me.

Syracuse did in fact had an offer to the Big 10 a few years back,but Doug felt we were not ready for it.

This I learned a few weeks ago. I clearly asked him if this was just rumors and he said no as Doug told him this in person.

Some folks here on this board knows who my source is,that is all I am going to say

Despite Gee's denials to the contrary, the rumor I heard (and I suspect your source is way more knowledgeable) was that SU's potential invite to the BiG was contingent on Notre Dame and that ND, SU, and Pitt had a gentlemen's agreement that either they all went to the BiG together or they stay in the Big East and try and make that work.

For whatever reason, the BiG move didn't work out and they tried to make the BE work, with ND and Pitt being the prime movers in bringing about the TCU invite (although WVU fans still credit Luck with that for some reason) as #9. Things fell apart when it came to #10. Things start to move again with A&M openly flirting with the SEC, the ACC worried that an eastern SEC add might come from their ranks, Pitt being courted by the Big 12 for expansion to 12 and to try and get ND as a partial, leading to the ACC offering SU and Pitt and ND's uncharacteristic response to that move.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Alsacs]

Delany talking about the Pinstripe Bowl
Delany said the Big Ten will not be locked into sending a team from a specific slot in the standings to the Pinstripe Bowl -- or to any of its bowls outside the College Football Playoff system.
"All of us in college football are making an effort to sort of change from a system of pure selection to a system of working with the bowl and the conference to place a team that makes sense," he said. "That means for us we're going to try to get over an 8-year period, a minimum of six and a maximum of eight different teams here.
The B1G is moving in on the East Coast and this move just shows how bush league the Big East leadership was and if we had a real commissioner all those years instead of PC choir boys protecting the basketball schools the Big East could have been one of the best conferences nationally. The ACC will be fine as long as ND eventually commits full-time, and the B1G continues being Ohio State/Michigan and nobody else and always losing big games to SEC speed.

 

[Alsacs]

Despite Gee's denials to the contrary, the rumor I heard (and I suspect your source is way more knowledgeable) was that SU's potential invite to the BiG was contingent on Notre Dame and that ND, SU, and Pitt had a gentlemen's agreement that either they all went to the BiG together or they stay in the Big East and try and make that work.

For whatever reason, the BiG move didn't work out and they tried to make the BE work, with ND and Pitt being the prime movers in bringing about the TCU invite (although WVU fans still credit Luck with that for some reason) as #9. Things fell apart when it came to #10. Things start to move again with A&M openly flirting with the SEC, the ACC worried that an eastern SEC add might come from their ranks, Pitt being courted by the Big 12 for expansion to 12 and to try and get ND as a partial, leading to the ACC offering SU and Pitt and ND's uncharacteristic response to that move.

Cheers,
Neil

The SU potential affiliation with the B1G was not what you prescribed from what I heard it was when Nebraska was negoitating to become the 12th B1G team. From what I heard it was going to be Notre Dame 13, Maryland 14, Rutgers 15, and Syracuse 16 and did not involve Pittsburgh because Penn State already owned the PA market and I doubt ND would have put up such a huge stink for Pittsburgh. As you described above it was the Big XII was looking at Pitt not the B1G, and that is why ACC looked at Pitt with SU when they expanded in September 2011.

 

[Btstimpy]

I say F the South.

Put the hoop tourney at MSG and the football Championship in Giants Stadium.

Welcome to the new ACC.

LOL. I think that the ACC wants to have the Basketball tournament in NYC. I hope MSG will bid on it or at least the Barclays Center. The football Championship game needs to go to a place that supports it with about 30-40 thousand locally bought tickets. It did not get enough support in Florida in either Jacksonville or Tampa when it was there. I has done much better in Charlotte.

If the NY/NJ area will fill up Giants Stadium for that game, they should bid on it. It takes marketing organization by that city.

 

[Btstimpy]

I think the ACC is doing their part. Working on MSG for conference hoops tourney, grant of rights, and likely the opposite partner in the Pinstripe right?

Delany was in the booth tonight for a half inning with the YES crew. They asked him "Big 10 vs who? I'm sure you know but you can't say" Delany said "exactly. The Yankees are still negotiating with the other party". If that other party is the ACC, then the ACC gets their big promo day with the Yankee brass, and a sign, right? Plus as promos go, I think it's better to go last.

Who else could be that other party?

The American is trying to remain involved with the Pinstripe Bowl because of UConn and Temple being in close proximity. I would hope that the ACC can convince the Pinstripe Bowl Committee on the merits of the ACC vs the American.

 

[Btstimpy]

The SU potential affiliation with the B1G was not what you prescribed from what I heard it was when Nebraska was negoitating to become the 12th B1G team. From what I heard it was going to be Notre Dame 13, Maryland 14, Rutgers 15, and Syracuse 16 and did not involve Pittsburgh because Penn State already owned the PA market and I doubt ND would have put up such a huge stink for Pittsburgh. As you described above it was the Big XII was looking at Pitt not the B1G, and that is why ACC looked at Pitt with SU when they expanded in September 2011.

If all of this is true then Swofford really did put a wrinkle in the Big Ten's plans despite losing Maryland. If Maryland had held firm like everyone else, it really would have put a huge wrinkle. I don't think they wanted Rutgers alone. As it is, they will be looking back at Big XII schools where they belong. Listening to Gee I feel sorry for Iowa State. Of everyone on the table Iowa State fits the Big Ten as well as of not better than anyone demographically. Gee says that they don't want them. The Western Division of that League should get a say too. I think if the ACC can get this network off the ground it will be the Big XII that becomes the target again for the Big Ten, SEC, and PAC 12.

 

[sutomcat]

You are right, Kaiser. At best, Marrone's thoughts or feelings on this would have had little weight.

It's possible that the B1G sent out feelers to SU top brass about SU's interest in joining the B1G. And Doug may have been consulted and may have said he was against it. But that doesn't mean any real weight was assigned to his opinion by the University decision makers.

Doug was free to decide who started at QB. Decisions on the future of the University are made by others at a much higher pay grade.

Another coach, James Arthur Boeheim, was against SU joining the ACC. We all know what happened there.

You are right about DM not being a major player in making decisions about the future conference affiliation of Syracuse, but not about higher pay grades. Unless you are saying JB made the call to go to the ACC, which is of course also not correct...

 

[omniorange]

The SU potential affiliation with the B1G was not what you prescribed from what I heard it was when Nebraska was negoitating to become the 12th B1G team. From what I heard it was going to be Notre Dame 13, Maryland 14, Rutgers 15, and Syracuse 16 and did not involve Pittsburgh because Penn State already owned the PA market and I doubt ND would have put up such a huge stink for Pittsburgh. As you described above it was the Big XII was looking at Pitt not the B1G, and that is why ACC looked at Pitt with SU when they expanded in September 2011.

The blue bolded part is the rumored expansion out of Indianapolis which I have mentioned in several posts since it was first out there. Though no precise order was given, I believe based upon what I have heard is that you are correct that SU was indeed #16 in that scenario and the most expendable of the four in the BiG's eyes.

The beginning part of the regular bolded statement is from the BiG's perspective. The latter part assumes ND truly wanted to go.

That's not to say that not having Pitt in the expansion scenario was the deal-breaker for ND, they truly just don't want to join any conference for football. But how do they keep the Big East afloat as a viable conference for all of their other sports but football and hockey if SU and/or Pitt leave? The answer to that is you don't, as we saw when both went to the ACC.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Btstimpy]

Not that we need any confirmation--but our old buddy Frank the Tank posted today about the 2 recent B1G moves. And from their perspective, it's all about aggressively moving into the East Coast Megalopolis.
http://frankthetank.me/[/quote]

He makes an interesting point about the weather. I watched the Syracuse vs West Virginia game last year, and it snowed heavily during part of that game. I kind of like warmer climate for a bowl game, but I also see the value of being in New York City. It will be interesting to see how this whole thing works out with the Pinstripe Bowl.

 

[Bayside44]

I like Frank's work, but it sounds like he hasn't been to The Bronx since the Dinkins administration.

 

[omniorange]

Delany talking about the Pinstripe Bowl
Delany said the Big Ten will not be locked into sending a team from a specific slot in the standings to the Pinstripe Bowl -- or to any of its bowls outside the College Football Playoff system.
"All of us in college football are making an effort to sort of change from a system of pure selection to a system of working with the bowl and the conference to place a team that makes sense," he said. "That means for us we're going to try to get over an 8-year period, a minimum of six and a maximum of eight different teams here.
The B1G is moving in on the East Coast and this move just shows how bush league the Big East leadership was and if we had a real commissioner all those years instead of PC choir boys protecting the basketball schools the Big East could have been one of the best conferences nationally. The ACC will be fine as long as ND eventually commits full-time, and the B1G continues being Ohio State/Michigan and nobody else and always losing big games to SEC speed.

I consider myself as a bit of a Big East homer, but the cornerstones for a northeastern league begin and end with PSU and ND.

Without either, having all the Pitts, SUs, BCs, Rutgers, Marylands, and UConns in the world isn't going to make for a solid stable league.

That's not to say that having one of the cornerstones by itself is enough as the BiG learned with having PSU. But they knew having both ended the discussion.

So we are where we are with the BiG having the best of the cornerstones fully on board with two of the above as well as Michigan and Ohio State.

The ACC has ND as a partial, with three of the above and Miami, FSU, UNC, UVa, VT, and Duke (in terms of basketball popularity in the northeast).

In terms of sheer numbers the ACC has the advantage IF Miami and FSU can return to being what they were in the past.

But I never underestimate the BiG.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Chip]

The American is trying to remain involved with the Pinstripe Bowl because of UConn and Temple being in close proximity. I would hope that the ACC can convince the Pinstripe Bowl Committee on the merits of the ACC vs the American.

Pulling that off would be the sales job of the century. SU brings more fans to the Pinstripe Bowl than Temple brings to its home stadium. Throw in other ACC possibilities which would be at worst equal on crowd, and at best better on TV. So that leaves the AAC's sale as being "you can have UConn every year".

Pinstripe wants to be more of a player than anything the AAC can offer. Being in NYC only takes you so far if half your bowl will be filled by a mid major.

 

[Townie72]

You are right about DM not being a major player in making decisions about the future conference affiliation of Syracuse, but not about higher pay grades. Unless you are saying JB made the call to go to the ACC, which is of course also not correct...

Tomcat, please. What I said --- or was trying to say --- was that SU went to the ACC in spite of Boeheim's opposition to the idea. So, to my mind, that demonstrates how little influence even iconic coaches have in the serious matter of what conference a school ends up in. If the SU administration is going to listen to a coach, it is more likely they'll listen to Boeheim.

As I said, the B1G may have expressed interest and DM may have been asked for his opinion. So no one is lying here. How much weight Cantor and Gross and the Trustees put on this is another matter.

Boeheim's point was that SU shouldn't voluntarily leave a conference where we are "a leading voice" (meaning we got pretty much everything we asked for) to go into a conference that might be dominated by other leading voices. The Maryland boosters I know always railed against what they considered to be the unfair treatment UMCP received at the hands of the Carolina schools.

What's different with the current ACC is that now SU, BC, Pitt and, to some degree, ND are a counterweight to the power of UNC, Duke, WF and NCSU.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Pulling that off would be the sales job of the century. SU brings more fans to the Pinstripe Bowl than Temple brings to its home stadium. Throw in other ACC possibilities which would be at worst equal on crowd, and at best better on TV. So that leaves the AAC's sale as being "you can have UConn every year".

Pinstripe wants to be more of a player than anything the AAC can offer. Being in NYC only takes you so far if half your bowl will be filled by a mid major.

i was just about to post the same thing.

the Pinstripe Bowl wants to be a tier 2 bowl, aligning themselves with aac is not in the cards.

sounds like the b1g has every intention of finding a way to get their muscle programs in there at least 1x. pitting them up against someone in basically a glorified scrimmage will not be what anyone wants to see.

theyre going to want a 9-3 vpi against an 8-4 michigan. put some juice in it, where its must see tv and has people like myself looking at the matchup, checking my schedule and seeing if i can fit in a trip to the Bronx.

'tailgating' in the pubs is fun 1x a year.

 

[Townie72]

I suspect that depending on what business you in, you may have a lot, some or little appreciation of what a Non-Disclosure Agreement is or how they work. It is not an automatic precursor to an invitation.

In many industries non-disclosure agreements (NDA's) are everyday occurrences especially when you are discussing things with customers about products you may or may not bring to market or business strategies that you may or may not implement. Signing NDAs and asking others to sign them is really no big deal. It doesn't portend anything.

So in any discussion with SU that any conference might have that exposes their thinking or their strategy or their potential strategy, the conference would automatically ask SU to sign an NDA meaning only that when we leave you can't pick up the phone and tell Swofford or Delany or whoever what was discussed.

 

[xc84]

Funny how many people (not all, for sure) poo pooed the Pinstripe Bowl as a crap bowl...and SU having played 2X there basically got the bowl booby prize. Now, the Big 10 is all hot about it and so is the ACC. Same for advertising in Yankee Statdium. Funny how things work out. I joked about it before but Syracuse was ahead of the curve on both.

 

[Alsacs]

Funny how many people (not all, for sure) poo pooed the Pinstripe Bowl as a crap bowl...and SU having played 2X there basically got the bowl booby prize. Now, the Big 10 is all hot about it and so is the ACC. Same for advertising in Yankee Statdium. Funny how things work out. I joked about it before but Syracuse was ahead of the curve on both.

I honestly don't remember any SU fans poo pooing the Pinstripe Bowl we were all ecstatic when we got the bowl in 2010 and last year we all wanted the Pinstripe Bowl so we wouldn't get shipped to Birmingham.

The Pinstripe Bowl isn't going to be an elite bowl even with ACC/B1G affiliation it can be a good second tiered bowl which us SU fans would love because its local for us, but it will never reach being a top tiered bowl. The ACC just needs to close the deal on the Pinstripe Bowl as it is obvious the B1G is declaring war on the ACC. I doubt the ACC will get the ads that the B1G will get those have to YES/FOX-B1G relationship more than Pinstripe Deal.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I honestly don't remember any SU fans poo pooing the Pinstripe Bowl we were all ecstatic when we got the bowl in 2010 and last year we all wanted the Pinstripe Bowl so we wouldn't get shipped to Birmingham.

The Pinstripe Bowl isn't going to be an elite bowl even with ACC/B1G affiliation it can be a good second tiered bowl which us SU fans would love because its local for us, but it will never reach being a top tiered bowl. The ACC just needs to close the deal on the Pinstripe Bowl as it is obvious the B1G is declaring war on the ACC. I doubt the ACC will get the ads that the B1G will get those have to YES/FOX-B1G relationship more than Pinstripe Deal.

exactly.

the Fiesta muscled its way into Tier 1 about 25 years ago, and the Peach just did this year or whenever that deal officialy starts. no reason to not think the Pinstripe can place itself in tier 2 and with the right matchups, we could be seeing 45k show up.

nd should be eligible for the Pinstripe too, put them in the mix, lets start punching back.

Oh Lord