Virginia Gameday...

[the villager]

Maybe the pool isn’t very deep but both sons and I think Murphy is a poor defender very noticeable.

 

[wgdsr]

i think this is a decoding class.

 

[Jables]

I could totally be crazy but last few games i’ve watched a lot of murphy and what he does and Hate to be mean but he makes some dumb choices misses ground balls and wonders or gives way to much cushion on his guy. Few times he just wonders or will go halfway to then start covering a guy who is already cover leaving one of our two defenders having to search for who’s open and usually a goal by time figure it out. He slides for no reason off crease guy decent amount. He seems to me he just occupies space not actually anyone. Feel he has been weak link in d and hasn’t done much. Kenny and cacaumo both studs grant ones freshman so has learning to do but they or our shorties do all work mostly haven’t seen murphy do anything that was remotely good play. Kind wish tried someone else there the transfer from le moyne or the utah transfer from last year someone who will engage more. Next game just keep eye on murphy seriously even if play not near him. Even go back last two games n just fully watch him on d just don’t see what he brings to table besides being senior. Lsm is what i’d play him not close.

Not sure what to think about Murphy this year. He used to play such a physical style and live in the penalty box.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Tough times folks. Very tough indeed. Hard to not be critical of the petro hire at present, and next year already feels like a crucial year for him. Coming around to ivory emphasizing the need for another ssdm through the portal as priority. Slide packages being over complicated could certainly be a factor, but a big part of the problem was ssdms getting beat cleanly on saturday. Cormier and Shutz made it look like none of them meet the minimum size requirements. Not a good game for Rosa who needed slides left and right. . He is one of the guys who has been battling some injury throughout the year so put it more on the staff for not trying someone new or resting him properly. Couple ssdms getting beat clean with a team that looks like it does not understand the concept of a two slide and you get Saturday's result. Healthy UVA is one of the toughest O's to stop, but as others have mentioned this ain't far off from how everyone makes us look.

So sounds like we have a coach who won over everyone quickly with his personality, but also happens to be running the least efficient defense in orange history. I try to avoid the big picture negativity in year one, but it's like we voluntarily chose to transplant Hopkins' problem onto us. "Yeah the results aren't what we want but he is a legend! The players love him! He recruits so well!" It could have all been avoided if we just, i don't know, brought in a promising DC whose results are trending up?? Like every other hire ever made ever?? One more year of this crap and it will look like one of the dumbest moves of all time. Have to hope that a year of the D system under the belt of the returning players along with some potentially promising close D and ssdm talent coming in leads to an improvement. Portal still has to be used at least moderately.

Meanwhile the offensive side of things has been, I would argue, at least passable, especially when one considers injuries and personnel lost, but the guy more in charge of that seems to be rubbing some the wrong way? I take the words of one or two disgruntled parents with a grain of salt, but I have had interactions with Gait and it does not surprise at all that his attitude could get under certain people's skin. With any luck all of this is forgotten when we put together a promising season, something he has been known to produce.

Birtwhistle can finish the rock like nobodies business. At least those involved have come to their senses and are starting him at attack with that skillset. Even if the injury excuse was stretching the truth, I'm not freaking out about that as lineup changes across all sports happen a lot later than the hardcore fans want. Just the way it is. We see 14 games not dozens and dozens of practices. Also Berkman was not a total liability or anything like that. He was a solid finisher and underrated feeder. I have seen enough from the undermanned offense that I truly think will improve there in year 2. Dordevic returning is huge. If we take some portal losses so be it. Just don't lose Dordy or Hiltz and preferably not Birtwistle. IL not having him on the roster after double digit goal season is all you need to know about the direction they are headed in.

I don't know y'all. This season has really sucked and even though we expected that it feels worse than I thought. Just ranting a little for old time's sake.

 

[Bigmancuse]

One thing that I noticed was shellenberger was actually held in check. Finished with 3 points but one was the opening goal and the pass to him from Phaup with no goalie and one a man up goal. Pretty impressive.

 

[JeremyCuse]

One thing that I noticed was shellenberger was actually held in check. Finished with 3 points but one was the opening goal and the pass to him from Phaup with no goalie and one a man up goal. Pretty impressive.

Defense has done some good things individually and played well at times. However, as not above and by most of us throughout the year SU has continued to have major issues with slides and overall bad decisions. Murphy and the SSDMs have been up and down way to much as well. Both were major issues on Saturday.

 

[Powellfan]

Heard some fairly concerning things after the game from unnamed players and parents Re: Gaiit.

Fairly disengaged , players with promise not necessarily sidelined early in season due to injury , guys being run into the ground at practice hugely contributing to the walking wounded , refusal to make adjustments even when suggested by other coaches , talk about the future focused on future players snd not on developing etc etc ..who knows but even if some if those are true , that’s not a positive

On the flip side. Rave reviews on Petro who seems to have connected with the players

My assessment is a potential significant exodus to portal ..

Let’s see how we do from here but the leash won’t be long if this continues

This is certainly discouraging to read, for the simple fact that it lines up with a lot of the concerns we've had on this board with what we've seen on the field. Not sure what Gait's deal is, but to be concerned about his sideline demeanor, and then to hear that it's playing out on his actual relationships with his players is a red flag for me. I know you are not going to make everyone on the team happy, especially when you are trying to implement your own system and way of doing things, and everything is amplified during a losing season, but it's still not great to hear.

This frankly is a talented team that to me has seriously underperformed. I know they've had injury issues which is no small thing, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that they are about to finish the season with the worst record since the 1970's with losses to very bad Hopkins and Albany teams. Dordevic and Curry are both putting up All American numbers that could contend with first the first team. Phaup has had a really good season despite some frustrating moments and is getting PLL buzz. Kennedy, despite playing out of position is another PLL bound player, Nick Caccamo has the most caused turnovers of any SU defenseman since Nick Mellen was playing. This team has talent which is why this season is so frustrating.

I agree with Lexus that I am less worried about the offense going forward - they've had some stinkers this year (the Hopkins game was maybe one of the worst I've seen in many years), but they have pieces. Birtwistle's emergence is really exciting. I think the loss of Curry will be more difficult than people realize, but there are good players coming back next year and really good players incoming in the freshman class. The offense still looks weird to me which makes me worried. They don't move the ball very well but that might change dramatically next year when Hiltz and Spallina are in the lineup. They just simply didn't have a quarterback on the roster, especially once Hiltz went down. We'll just have to wait and see.

I didn't get to watch the UVA game but the defense this year is shambolic. I didn't think things could get worse than last year, but they did. Our short sticks simply can't hold up against top half DI teams which causes a very undisciplined group of players to slide like maniacs. Seriously, some of the slides I've seen this year defy logic. I'm not trying to be over the top, but it's incredibly frustrating to watch this defense make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Just look at the game winning goal scored by Cornell a few weeks ago:


Olexo needlessly slides to help Kennedy, who stumbles a bit while guarding Kirst, so a bit of forgiveness can be given to Saam. But what is Murphy doing here? Besides ball watching? Who is he guarding on this play? No one is guarding Kelleher on this play that's for sure, who just so happens to score the game winning goal. Freeze it on :04 seconds, not a single defender within 10 yards of the shooter. I think Rice is supposed to be guarding him, but in the span of 4 seconds he switches onto two different Cornell players. This is coming out of a timeout too I beleive. I frankly don't know who's to blame for this, but it is dismal. Two simple passes and game over without Cornell having to do much of anything. And it keeps happening! Over and over again I could post this stuff. Maybe it simply is the players, since they weren't much better last year with a different coach, as Caccamo and Rice are the only new players. But at some point doesn't a coach have to change up formations to suit his skill level? The constant sliding and switching just leaves SU defenders lost in the wash.

I do feel bad for Petro, he seems like a very likable guy. My understanding is one of his best and worst traits is his loyalty. That's why you've seen guys like Paul Rabil basically forsake their Hopkins fandom after his firing. At the same time many Jays fans complained that he seemed to stick with players who weren't playing well for way too long. I'm not sure thats quite fair a label for him yet, he did insert Caccamo into the lineup after a few games, though I'm not sure why they haven't tried someone other than Murphy at his spot this season. Next year should be interesting with Dwan, who has grown up with Petro as an uncle figure joining the team, and Figurias who he flipped. But adding freshmen to this scheme that just seems so discombobulated makes me really nervous. Hopkins fans also complained that his defense was way too complicated and I have to say I unfortunately agree with them. Hopkins is in a bad way right now but it seems their defense has improved since Petro left, last week's drubbing to Maryland not withstanding. That is concerning as a Syracuse fan.

Based on the post above, it sounds like Gait is simply waiting for a new group of players to come in and save him, which is a scary proposition. It's not like he entered the coaching room off the street. I know women's lacrosse is different, I get that, but he was successful - if his aloof approach with the men's team isn't working, it strikes me as odd that it would work with a group of female athletes? Did he just manage to hire really good assistant coaches and let them do most of the work? He has not been ingrained with the men's sport on the college side for many years, which I at the time didn't think was that big of a deal. But I think that must be playing into this on some level, as he hadn't watching tape, he hadn't been recruiting, who knows how many men's lacrosse games he even watched the last few years? Petro as well was out of the game for entire year. I think this must somehow be factoring into recent troubles.

Not sure what Gait's plans are for the offseason, but this past year (two years really) has just been so darn weird. Why schedule an incredibly challenging group of teams when you don't have a good assessment of your own team? Lots of things have to change this offseason and hopefully the right ones are made.

 

[MD Cuse Fan]

This is certainly discouraging to read, for the simple fact that it lines up with a lot of the concerns we've had on this board with what we've seen on the field. Not sure what Gait's deal is, but to be concerned about his sideline demeanor, and then to hear that it's playing out on his actual relationships with his players is a red flag for me. I know you are not going to make everyone on the team happy, especially when you are trying to implement your own system and way of doing things, and everything is amplified during a losing season, but it's still not great to hear.

This frankly is a talented team that to me has seriously underperformed. I know they've had injury issues which is no small thing, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that they are about to finish the season with the worst record since the 1970's with losses to very bad Hopkins and Albany teams. Dordevic and Curry are both putting up All American numbers that could contend with first the first team. Phaup has had a really good season despite some frustrating moments and is getting PLL buzz. Kennedy, despite playing out of position is another PLL bound player, Nick Caccamo has the most caused turnovers of any SU defenseman since Nick Mellen was playing. This team has talent which is why this season is so frustrating.

I agree with Lexus that I am less worried about the offense going forward - they've had some stinkers this year (the Hopkins game was maybe one of the worst I've seen in many years), but they have pieces. Birtwistle's emergence is really exciting. I think the loss of Curry will be more difficult than people realize, but there are good players coming back next year and really good players incoming in the freshman class. The offense still looks weird to me which makes me worried. They don't move the ball very well but that might change dramatically next year when Hiltz and Spallina are in the lineup. They just simply didn't have a quarterback on the roster, especially once Hiltz went down. We'll just have to wait and see.

I didn't get to watch the UVA game but the defense this year is shambolic. I didn't think things could get worse than last year, but they did. Our short sticks simply can't hold up against top half DI teams which causes a very undisciplined group of players to slide like maniacs. Seriously, some of the slides I've seen this year defy logic. I'm not trying to be over the top, but it's incredibly frustrating to watch this defense make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Just look at the game winning goal scored by Cornell a few weeks ago:


Olexo needlessly slides to help Kennedy, who stumbles a bit while guarding Kirst, so a bit of forgiveness can be given to Saam. But what is Murphy doing here? Besides ball watching? Who is he guarding on this play? No one is guarding Kelleher on this play that's for sure, who just so happens to score the game winning goal. Freeze it on :04 seconds, not a single defender within 10 yards of the shooter. I think Rice is supposed to be guarding him, but in the span of 4 seconds he switches onto two different Cornell players. This is coming out of a timeout too I beleive. I frankly don't know who's to blame for this, but it is dismal. Two simple passes and game over without Cornell having to do much of anything. And it keeps happening! Over and over again I could post this stuff. Maybe it simply is the players, since they weren't much better last year with a different coach, as Caccamo and Rice are the only new players. But at some point doesn't a coach have to change up formations to suit his skill level? The constant sliding and switching just leaves SU defenders lost in the wash.

I do feel bad for Petro, he seems like a very likable guy. My understanding is one of his best and worst traits is his loyalty. That's why you've seen guys like Paul Rabil basically forsake their Hopkins fandom after his firing. At the same time many Jays fans complained that he seemed to stick with players who weren't playing well for way too long. I'm not sure thats quite fair a label for him yet, he did insert Caccamo into the lineup after a few games, though I'm not sure why they haven't tried someone other than Murphy at his spot this season. Next year should be interesting with Dwan, who has grown up with Petro as an uncle figure joining the team, and Figurias who he flipped. But adding freshmen to this scheme that just seems so discombobulated makes me really nervous. Hopkins fans also complained that his defense was way too complicated and I have to say I unfortunately agree with them. Hopkins is in a bad way right now but it seems their defense has improved since Petro left, last week's drubbing to Maryland not withstanding. That is concerning as a Syracuse fan.

Based on the post above, it sounds like Gait is simply waiting for a new group of players to come in and save him, which is a scary proposition. It's not like he entered the coaching room off the street. I know women's lacrosse is different, I get that, but he was successful - if his aloof approach with the men's team isn't working, it strikes me as odd that it would work with a group of female athletes? Did he just manage to hire really good assistant coaches and let them do most of the work? He has not been ingrained with the men's sport on the college side for many years, which I at the time didn't think was that big of a deal. But I think that must be playing into this on some level, as he hadn't watching tape, he hadn't been recruiting, who knows how many men's lacrosse games he even watched the last few years? Petro as well was out of the game for entire year. I think this must somehow be factoring into recent troubles.

Not sure what Gait's plans are for the offseason, but this past year (two years really) has just been so darn weird. Why schedule an incredibly challenging group of teams when you don't have a good assessment of your own team? Lots of things have to change this offseason and hopefully the right ones are made.

Excellent write up PF. I was not able to watch the game Saturday but just watching the highlights, it looks a lot like it does every game defensively. Regarding Murphy, not sure what's going on with him. Think he was a better player earlier in his career. I think it's fair to ask why they haven't tried someone else and the fact that they haven't done that with all the poles we have sitting on the bench is worrisome to me. Do none of those guys do anything in practice to deserve a shot? I expected a rebuilding/down season but what's made it worse was after that SB/Duke stretch the team really started looking they were figuring it out, then the get blown out by ND again and it's been a lot of ugly (with some positives) since then.

 

[ForCuseSake]

This is certainly discouraging to read, for the simple fact that it lines up with a lot of the concerns we've had on this board with what we've seen on the field. Not sure what Gait's deal is, but to be concerned about his sideline demeanor, and then to hear that it's playing out on his actual relationships with his players is a red flag for me. I know you are not going to make everyone on the team happy, especially when you are trying to implement your own system and way of doing things, and everything is amplified during a losing season, but it's still not great to hear.

This frankly is a talented team that to me has seriously underperformed. I know they've had injury issues which is no small thing, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that they are about to finish the season with the worst record since the 1970's with losses to very bad Hopkins and Albany teams. Dordevic and Curry are both putting up All American numbers that could contend with first the first team. Phaup has had a really good season despite some frustrating moments and is getting PLL buzz. Kennedy, despite playing out of position is another PLL bound player, Nick Caccamo has the most caused turnovers of any SU defenseman since Nick Mellen was playing. This team has talent which is why this season is so frustrating.

I agree with Lexus that I am less worried about the offense going forward - they've had some stinkers this year (the Hopkins game was maybe one of the worst I've seen in many years), but they have pieces. Birtwistle's emergence is really exciting. I think the loss of Curry will be more difficult than people realize, but there are good players coming back next year and really good players incoming in the freshman class. The offense still looks weird to me which makes me worried. They don't move the ball very well but that might change dramatically next year when Hiltz and Spallina are in the lineup. They just simply didn't have a quarterback on the roster, especially once Hiltz went down. We'll just have to wait and see.

I didn't get to watch the UVA game but the defense this year is shambolic. I didn't think things could get worse than last year, but they did. Our short sticks simply can't hold up against top half DI teams which causes a very undisciplined group of players to slide like maniacs. Seriously, some of the slides I've seen this year defy logic. I'm not trying to be over the top, but it's incredibly frustrating to watch this defense make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Just look at the game winning goal scored by Cornell a few weeks ago:


Olexo needlessly slides to help Kennedy, who stumbles a bit while guarding Kirst, so a bit of forgiveness can be given to Saam. But what is Murphy doing here? Besides ball watching? Who is he guarding on this play? No one is guarding Kelleher on this play that's for sure, who just so happens to score the game winning goal. Freeze it on :04 seconds, not a single defender within 10 yards of the shooter. I think Rice is supposed to be guarding him, but in the span of 4 seconds he switches onto two different Cornell players. This is coming out of a timeout too I beleive. I frankly don't know who's to blame for this, but it is dismal. Two simple passes and game over without Cornell having to do much of anything. And it keeps happening! Over and over again I could post this stuff. Maybe it simply is the players, since they weren't much better last year with a different coach, as Caccamo and Rice are the only new players. But at some point doesn't a coach have to change up formations to suit his skill level? The constant sliding and switching just leaves SU defenders lost in the wash.

I do feel bad for Petro, he seems like a very likable guy. My understanding is one of his best and worst traits is his loyalty. That's why you've seen guys like Paul Rabil basically forsake their Hopkins fandom after his firing. At the same time many Jays fans complained that he seemed to stick with players who weren't playing well for way too long. I'm not sure thats quite fair a label for him yet, he did insert Caccamo into the lineup after a few games, though I'm not sure why they haven't tried someone other than Murphy at his spot this season. Next year should be interesting with Dwan, who has grown up with Petro as an uncle figure joining the team, and Figurias who he flipped. But adding freshmen to this scheme that just seems so discombobulated makes me really nervous. Hopkins fans also complained that his defense was way too complicated and I have to say I unfortunately agree with them. Hopkins is in a bad way right now but it seems their defense has improved since Petro left, last week's drubbing to Maryland not withstanding. That is concerning as a Syracuse fan.

Based on the post above, it sounds like Gait is simply waiting for a new group of players to come in and save him, which is a scary proposition. It's not like he entered the coaching room off the street. I know women's lacrosse is different, I get that, but he was successful - if his aloof approach with the men's team isn't working, it strikes me as odd that it would work with a group of female athletes? Did he just manage to hire really good assistant coaches and let them do most of the work? He has not been ingrained with the men's sport on the college side for many years, which I at the time didn't think was that big of a deal. But I think that must be playing into this on some level, as he hadn't watching tape, he hadn't been recruiting, who knows how many men's lacrosse games he even watched the last few years? Petro as well was out of the game for entire year. I think this must somehow be factoring into recent troubles.

Not sure what Gait's plans are for the offseason, but this past year (two years really) has just been so darn weird. Why schedule an incredibly challenging group of teams when you don't have a good assessment of your own team? Lots of things have to change this offseason and hopefully the right ones are made.

I wonder how much rotating goalies contributed to the lack of communication when I see replays like that.

I'll caveat that with saying the audio isn't clear enough to know who calls out Olexo's slide (if anyone did). Even if Olexo decided on his own to slide, I would hope his goalie (Gavin) was shouting "Fire" (or whatever word they use to let teammates know to rotate).

I agree that Olexo didn't need to slide and it looks like the weak side defenders were unaware that their teammates had rotated over to left side GLE.

Rice picked up the second slide as Murphy was tracking his guy into the high slot. Either Murphy was slow to react (waiting for Olexo to recover to crease) or he's coached to stay at home and let the slide come from the adjacent wing.

I thought Lelan's system was mostly crap the last 2-4 years but this system looks way worse. The defense seems to have no cohesion.

 

[Cuse4455]

The defense has been bad because the same players make the same mistakes, if you rewatch all the games we lost, you'll see the same group of guys make the same errors over and over again.

 

[wgdsr]

I wonder how much rotating goalies contributed to the lack of communication when I see replays like that.

I'll caveat that with saying the audio isn't clear enough to know who calls out Olexo's slide (if anyone did). Even if Olexo decided on his own to slide, I would hope his goalie (Gavin) was shouting "Fire" (or whatever word they use to let teammates know to rotate).

I agree that Olexo didn't need to slide and it looks like the weak side defenders were unaware that their teammates had rotated over to left side GLE.

Rice picked up the second slide as Murphy was tracking his guy into the high slot. Either Murphy was slow to react (waiting for Olexo to recover to crease) or he's coached to stay at home and let the slide come from the adjacent wing.

I thought Lelan's system was mostly crap the last 2-4 years but this system looks way worse. The defense seems to have no cohesion.

it looks like olexxo panicked. you can forget about the other slides that have to cover it up, if his guy took a step to the pass, he has his own 10 yard hands free shot off one pass. no way he had anyone covering for him ahead of that aj.

not enough trust in kennedy, who's been excellent on ball. then it's a carousel that can't possibly catch up.

 

[ClvrUsrnm]

I wonder how much rotating goalies contributed to the lack of communication when I see replays like that.

I'll caveat that with saying the audio isn't clear enough to know who calls out Olexo's slide (if anyone did). Even if Olexo decided on his own to slide, I would hope his goalie (Gavin) was shouting "Fire" (or whatever word they use to let teammates know to rotate).

I agree that Olexo didn't need to slide and it looks like the weak side defenders were unaware that their teammates had rotated over to left side GLE.

Rice picked up the second slide as Murphy was tracking his guy into the high slot. Either Murphy was slow to react (waiting for Olexo to recover to crease) or he's coached to stay at home and let the slide come from the adjacent wing.

I thought Lelan's system was mostly crap the last 2-4 years but this system looks way worse. The defense seems to have no cohesion.

It’s been the same two problems all year. Sliding unnecessarily and no or very untimely 2 and 3 slides.

 

[ForCuseSake]

it looks like olexxo panicked. you can forget about the other slides that have to cover it up, if his guy took a step to the pass, he has his own 10 yard hands free shot off one pass. no way he had anyone covering for him ahead of that aj.

not enough trust in kennedy, who's been excellent on ball. then it's a carousel that can't possibly catch up.

Yep, Olexo panicked and misread Kennedy - the Cornell attacker wasn't above GLE with the option to roll.

As a former close defenseman, I always appreciated my goalie announcing slides/switches especially when the ball carrier was at X.

I know some may disagree (believing it tips off the ball carrier to early).

Rice's slide gave enough time to recover if Murphy had recognized Olexo's recovery a split second earlier.

Edit - And Murphy's slow response is what makes me wonder if it's a "don't slide from crease" strategy or just bad anticipation.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

This is certainly discouraging to read, for the simple fact that it lines up with a lot of the concerns we've had on this board with what we've seen on the field. Not sure what Gait's deal is, but to be concerned about his sideline demeanor, and then to hear that it's playing out on his actual relationships with his players is a red flag for me. I know you are not going to make everyone on the team happy, especially when you are trying to implement your own system and way of doing things, and everything is amplified during a losing season, but it's still not great to hear.

This frankly is a talented team that to me has seriously underperformed. I know they've had injury issues which is no small thing, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that they are about to finish the season with the worst record since the 1970's with losses to very bad Hopkins and Albany teams. Dordevic and Curry are both putting up All American numbers that could contend with first the first team. Phaup has had a really good season despite some frustrating moments and is getting PLL buzz. Kennedy, despite playing out of position is another PLL bound player, Nick Caccamo has the most caused turnovers of any SU defenseman since Nick Mellen was playing. This team has talent which is why this season is so frustrating.

I agree with Lexus that I am less worried about the offense going forward - they've had some stinkers this year (the Hopkins game was maybe one of the worst I've seen in many years), but they have pieces. Birtwistle's emergence is really exciting. I think the loss of Curry will be more difficult than people realize, but there are good players coming back next year and really good players incoming in the freshman class. The offense still looks weird to me which makes me worried. They don't move the ball very well but that might change dramatically next year when Hiltz and Spallina are in the lineup. They just simply didn't have a quarterback on the roster, especially once Hiltz went down. We'll just have to wait and see.

I didn't get to watch the UVA game but the defense this year is shambolic. I didn't think things could get worse than last year, but they did. Our short sticks simply can't hold up against top half DI teams which causes a very undisciplined group of players to slide like maniacs. Seriously, some of the slides I've seen this year defy logic. I'm not trying to be over the top, but it's incredibly frustrating to watch this defense make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Just look at the game winning goal scored by Cornell a few weeks ago:


Olexo needlessly slides to help Kennedy, who stumbles a bit while guarding Kirst, so a bit of forgiveness can be given to Saam. But what is Murphy doing here? Besides ball watching? Who is he guarding on this play? No one is guarding Kelleher on this play that's for sure, who just so happens to score the game winning goal. Freeze it on :04 seconds, not a single defender within 10 yards of the shooter. I think Rice is supposed to be guarding him, but in the span of 4 seconds he switches onto two different Cornell players. This is coming out of a timeout too I beleive. I frankly don't know who's to blame for this, but it is dismal. Two simple passes and game over without Cornell having to do much of anything. And it keeps happening! Over and over again I could post this stuff. Maybe it simply is the players, since they weren't much better last year with a different coach, as Caccamo and Rice are the only new players. But at some point doesn't a coach have to change up formations to suit his skill level? The constant sliding and switching just leaves SU defenders lost in the wash.

I do feel bad for Petro, he seems like a very likable guy. My understanding is one of his best and worst traits is his loyalty. That's why you've seen guys like Paul Rabil basically forsake their Hopkins fandom after his firing. At the same time many Jays fans complained that he seemed to stick with players who weren't playing well for way too long. I'm not sure thats quite fair a label for him yet, he did insert Caccamo into the lineup after a few games, though I'm not sure why they haven't tried someone other than Murphy at his spot this season. Next year should be interesting with Dwan, who has grown up with Petro as an uncle figure joining the team, and Figurias who he flipped. But adding freshmen to this scheme that just seems so discombobulated makes me really nervous. Hopkins fans also complained that his defense was way too complicated and I have to say I unfortunately agree with them. Hopkins is in a bad way right now but it seems their defense has improved since Petro left, last week's drubbing to Maryland not withstanding. That is concerning as a Syracuse fan.

Based on the post above, it sounds like Gait is simply waiting for a new group of players to come in and save him, which is a scary proposition. It's not like he entered the coaching room off the street. I know women's lacrosse is different, I get that, but he was successful - if his aloof approach with the men's team isn't working, it strikes me as odd that it would work with a group of female athletes? Did he just manage to hire really good assistant coaches and let them do most of the work? He has not been ingrained with the men's sport on the college side for many years, which I at the time didn't think was that big of a deal. But I think that must be playing into this on some level, as he hadn't watching tape, he hadn't been recruiting, who knows how many men's lacrosse games he even watched the last few years? Petro as well was out of the game for entire year. I think this must somehow be factoring into recent troubles.

Not sure what Gait's plans are for the offseason, but this past year (two years really) has just been so darn weird. Why schedule an incredibly challenging group of teams when you don't have a good assessment of your own team? Lots of things have to change this offseason and hopefully the right ones are made.

I couldn't come close to responding to your x's and o's comments as I simply don't have the knowledge. I think your assessment of the teams talent level is extremely lacking however. We've been noticeably more "talented" than two opponents- Holy Cross and JHU. That's a significant problem when you take into consideration the resources the program has to expend.

 

[ForCuseSake]

It’s been the same two problems all year. Sliding unnecessarily and no or very untimely 2 and 3 slides.

During Lelan's tenure I thought longsticks were too quick to slide in support of shorties and it too often created scoring opportunities for opponents.

They (longsticks) were usually more disciplined and less likely to mistakenly slide to other longsticks. We had some solid SSDMs who sometimes looked less capable because a longstick slid too early. I think too often SSDMs are blamed when their teammates misread the play and rotate needlessly and give up a goal.

This year, as you said, it seems too many defenders (at both levels - close D and midfield) needlessly slide to the ball carrier giving wide open shots.

 

[Powellfan]

I couldn't come close to responding to your x's and o's comments as I simply don't have the knowledge. I think your assessment of the teams talent level is extremely lacking however. We've been noticeably more "talented" than two opponents- Holy Cross and JHU. That's a significant problem when you take into consideration the resources the program has to expend.

You don't think we are more talented than Albany or Stony Brook? The Danes won't come close to putting anyone on any All American list. Neither will the Seawolves. Army probably has two better players than SU in Nichtern and Schluper but SU I think has advantages at most other positions. They played UNC and Cornell pretty evenly I'd say, outside of Chris Gray I think the Orange has arguably more talent than the Tar Heels. Army and Cornell couldn't stop the SU offense until they went into a zone defense. On paper this team really should have been at least .500, based on talent. Maybe we have different definitions of talent, but player to player I think SU players are picked more often than a lot of teams the Orange lost to.

 

[JeremyCuse]

During Lelan's tenure I thought longsticks were too quick to slide in support of shorties and it too oftern created scoring opportunities for opponents.

They (longsticks) were usually more disciplined and less likely to mistakenly slide to other longsticks. We had some solid SSDMs who sometimes looked less capable because a longstick slid too early. I think too often SSDMs are blamed when their teammates misread the play and rotate needlessly and give up a goal.

This year, as you said, it seems too many defenders (at both levels - close D and midfield) needlessly slide to the ball carrier giving wide open shots.

I think part of the problem is that the current D starters are mostly the same from last year and have become I guess a bit gun shy (for lack of a better term) on when or if to slide from some of the issues last year and I think in certain games this year. If you look at some of these games there is an epidemic of Syracuse players sliding for no reason on multiple occasions. You saw it versus Albany, UNC and Cornell and even a bit against UVA as I think wgdsr noted. It's been a huge issue nearly the entire season and while it improved some in certain games ie Duke it cost SU probably 2 to 3 wins. It's a bit surprising SU didn't go with a slow to slide package even if it was just for certain defenders. Maryland did this on Sat vs Hop and only slide if it was absolutely necessary. SU should almost never be sliding when Kennedy is guarding a player, if he gets beat he gets beat but he has earned the trust as the #1 defender.

Overall uneven play and youth has also been a major problem and I think also a complete inability to go with other guys when starters are struggling as mentioned by I think powellfan. Caccamo has looked outstanding as a Frosh and should be absolutely mentioned as one of the top Frosh of D1. However, he also unfortunately was heavily involved in 2 losses with his no reason to slide late against Cornell and then his turnover on a bad pass vs UNC. Not condemning him by any stretch but its hard not to see youth contributing to both. Murphy clearly has struggled all year and its unclear why we haven't tried Frattergio or someone else at the third spot. The options depth wise aren't great but give someone else a shot. SSDM's have also been up and down. Rice and Aviles have been good overall but were torched against UVA and ND and were a mess in the 2nd half of the UNC game. Rosa clearly isnt 100% as he hasn't looked right since his injury and has had trouble defending on dodges since his return. I don't know if an SSDM via the portal is a realistic option but I absolutely think Lavine and the incoming From Trujillo (spelling) should get a look as we need more depth and speed there clearly.

Overall it appears to be a variety of issues contributing to the defensive issues. Cleary ill-timed or incorrect slides are the main culprit. But we've also seen games where the SSDM's have struggled necessitating slide and its been the secondary slide that SU struggled with. We have also seen the D hold up fairly well and then SU starts trying to double and creates offense for the opponent for no reason ie UNC and Cornell games. Goalie play has also been mostly horrendous though a few games I am pretty sure me or sutomcat could score guys were so wide open. I think clearly things have to be simplified as way to many times the SU defense has been lost or confused on a re-start or secondary break that shouldn't happen at this level. It's also unclear why Petro says one thing in the huddle but the team then does the exact opposite. Arwe they just makign mistakes? Ignoring him? Some combo of both? Why not replace Murphy, is Petro sticking with a guy he likes or a Sr for to long like he did at Hop?

There is a lot of talent incoming next year but you can't ask 3 freshmen to be Kennedy out of the gate. Petro has a big job in front of him but I hold out some hope that with all the SSDM's returning, Caccamo, Fraterrgio, Olexxo, Clary, Page, Drago there is talent there and clearly Dwan Sadeger and the St. Johns guys will add a much needed influx of talent that we can hopefully get up to speed quickly.

 

[ivorytower]

22 team had its talents, history will likely show a 4-10 final record and dispersions will be cast now and later but I'm convinced their record against a tough sked would have been over .500 if Hiltz had played. He was the one player that this team could least afford to lose. The drop off in assists and shooting percentages can be directly traced to losing team's main orchestrator.

Still, Cuse had more gb's, fewer turnovers, more caused turnovers , higher clearing %, more shots per game , more shots on goal, more faceoff wins than opponents. This despite a rash of injuries that led to depth issues.

Staff has to assess all and seek upgrades were deemed necessary including goaltending. Cuse d personnel and scheme but also note Cuse statistics such as # of opponent shots on goal per game as well as % of opp. shots being on goal were in line with all acc teams other than UVA who had lower #'s in both. Respective save percentages however were unc 52, duke 56, nd 57, uva 50 vs our 41%. Simple math shows that a ten percent increase in our save % would result in 31 less goals or 2.4 fewer goals allowed per game. Understand that is too simple but watched plenty a game where goalies were under fire from both close and afar . Defenses look alot better when goalie is making fair share of saveable saves and alot worst when they aren't. Thought Thompson made some good saves and hope that he gets final audition.

 

[JeremyCuse]

This is certainly discouraging to read, for the simple fact that it lines up with a lot of the concerns we've had on this board with what we've seen on the field. Not sure what Gait's deal is, but to be concerned about his sideline demeanor, and then to hear that it's playing out on his actual relationships with his players is a red flag for me. I know you are not going to make everyone on the team happy, especially when you are trying to implement your own system and way of doing things, and everything is amplified during a losing season, but it's still not great to hear.

This frankly is a talented team that to me has seriously underperformed. I know they've had injury issues which is no small thing, but that still doesn't excuse the fact that they are about to finish the season with the worst record since the 1970's with losses to very bad Hopkins and Albany teams. Dordevic and Curry are both putting up All American numbers that could contend with first the first team. Phaup has had a really good season despite some frustrating moments and is getting PLL buzz. Kennedy, despite playing out of position is another PLL bound player, Nick Caccamo has the most caused turnovers of any SU defenseman since Nick Mellen was playing. This team has talent which is why this season is so frustrating.

I agree with Lexus that I am less worried about the offense going forward - they've had some stinkers this year (the Hopkins game was maybe one of the worst I've seen in many years), but they have pieces. Birtwistle's emergence is really exciting. I think the loss of Curry will be more difficult than people realize, but there are good players coming back next year and really good players incoming in the freshman class. The offense still looks weird to me which makes me worried. They don't move the ball very well but that might change dramatically next year when Hiltz and Spallina are in the lineup. They just simply didn't have a quarterback on the roster, especially once Hiltz went down. We'll just have to wait and see.

I didn't get to watch the UVA game but the defense this year is shambolic. I didn't think things could get worse than last year, but they did. Our short sticks simply can't hold up against top half DI teams which causes a very undisciplined group of players to slide like maniacs. Seriously, some of the slides I've seen this year defy logic. I'm not trying to be over the top, but it's incredibly frustrating to watch this defense make the same mistakes over and over and over again. Just look at the game winning goal scored by Cornell a few weeks ago:


Olexo needlessly slides to help Kennedy, who stumbles a bit while guarding Kirst, so a bit of forgiveness can be given to Saam. But what is Murphy doing here? Besides ball watching? Who is he guarding on this play? No one is guarding Kelleher on this play that's for sure, who just so happens to score the game winning goal. Freeze it on :04 seconds, not a single defender within 10 yards of the shooter. I think Rice is supposed to be guarding him, but in the span of 4 seconds he switches onto two different Cornell players. This is coming out of a timeout too I beleive. I frankly don't know who's to blame for this, but it is dismal. Two simple passes and game over without Cornell having to do much of anything. And it keeps happening! Over and over again I could post this stuff. Maybe it simply is the players, since they weren't much better last year with a different coach, as Caccamo and Rice are the only new players. But at some point doesn't a coach have to change up formations to suit his skill level? The constant sliding and switching just leaves SU defenders lost in the wash.

I do feel bad for Petro, he seems like a very likable guy. My understanding is one of his best and worst traits is his loyalty. That's why you've seen guys like Paul Rabil basically forsake their Hopkins fandom after his firing. At the same time many Jays fans complained that he seemed to stick with players who weren't playing well for way too long. I'm not sure thats quite fair a label for him yet, he did insert Caccamo into the lineup after a few games, though I'm not sure why they haven't tried someone other than Murphy at his spot this season. Next year should be interesting with Dwan, who has grown up with Petro as an uncle figure joining the team, and Figurias who he flipped. But adding freshmen to this scheme that just seems so discombobulated makes me really nervous. Hopkins fans also complained that his defense was way too complicated and I have to say I unfortunately agree with them. Hopkins is in a bad way right now but it seems their defense has improved since Petro left, last week's drubbing to Maryland not withstanding. That is concerning as a Syracuse fan.

Based on the post above, it sounds like Gait is simply waiting for a new group of players to come in and save him, which is a scary proposition. It's not like he entered the coaching room off the street. I know women's lacrosse is different, I get that, but he was successful - if his aloof approach with the men's team isn't working, it strikes me as odd that it would work with a group of female athletes? Did he just manage to hire really good assistant coaches and let them do most of the work? He has not been ingrained with the men's sport on the college side for many years, which I at the time didn't think was that big of a deal. But I think that must be playing into this on some level, as he hadn't watching tape, he hadn't been recruiting, who knows how many men's lacrosse games he even watched the last few years? Petro as well was out of the game for entire year. I think this must somehow be factoring into recent troubles.

Not sure what Gait's plans are for the offseason, but this past year (two years really) has just been so darn weird. Why schedule an incredibly challenging group of teams when you don't have a good assessment of your own team? Lots of things have to change this offseason and hopefully the right ones are made.

Gaits hire seems destined to go one of two ways. Either the team is noticeably better next year and makes the tournament or the same issues pop up ie odd personnel decisions, bizarre press conferences, turnovers every other possession, a defense that's lost etc and all hell breaks lose that the hire was a mistake.

Personally I am not sure what to make of him so far. SU should have won the UNC and Cornell games and to lose a guy like Hiltz pre-season is devestating. the offense has also shown a pulse for most of the year despite the loss of Hiltz and then missing Quinn for most of the year and Cook again struggling to do much after another monster pre-season is impressive.

All that said there are still some major concerns about his decisions to date. The decision to ignore the transfer portal to see what he has is fine in theory but to then schedule like were Maryland made little sense. Now Gait did admit he made a mistake with the scheduling which is good to see him admit to but to make the mistake in the first place when it was quite obvious to most on here is troubling.

Gait has some unique personal traits that are simply part of his makeup. Wears a suit, is almost always laid back and likes to delegate to his assistants. All that is fine and it clearly worked for the women's team but I don't know if that's really going to work for the men at least at the top of the D1 level. It's one thing to sort of pass the buck to the roster and injuries in year 1 but those excuses aren't holding up in year 2 I can promise you that. It's also a bit disconcerting to hear him not take any personal responsibility for the teams play, the record etc. That is an enormous red flag and something we saw in the latter part of the Desko era that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Again year 1 you can give a pass but when you read what CuseNhouse posted its hard not to be concerned and wonder if this is a blip or the first signs of trouble. It's also concerning that this staff appears to have double downed on sticking with starters well past the point where its clear we needed to give minutes to other players, ie Cook, Berkman, Murphy etc. Injuries or not, for it to take until UNC for Birtwistle to see extended minutes at attack is malpractice, especially when a idiot like me could see he should be playing.

I am very interested to see how this off-season goes and who does or doesn't enter the transfer portal. I am also curious to see how next years schedule takes shape and what this team/staff does via the portal. Not going to go overboard based on year 1 with a team that was missing its best player the entire year and a goalie situation that was the worst in recent memory but I also won't say that I don't have major questions/concerns about the start to the Gait era.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Yep

Missed you confirming this, wow not good.

 

[CuseNHouse]

Gaits hire seems destined to go one of two ways. Either the team is noticeably better next year and makes the tournament or the same issues pop up ie odd personnel decisions, bizarre press conferences, turnovers every other possession, a defense that's lost etc and all hell breaks lose that the hire was a mistake.

Personally I am not sure what to make of him so far. SU should have won the UNC and Cornell games and to lose a guy like Hiltz pre-season is devestating. the offense has also shown a pulse for most of the year despite the loss of Hiltz and then missing Quinn for most of the year and Cook again struggling to do much after another monster pre-season is impressive.

All that said there are still some major concerns about his decisions to date. The decision to ignore the transfer portal to see what he has is fine in theory but to then schedule like were Maryland made little sense. Now Gait did admit he made a mistake with the scheduling which is good to see him admit to but to make the mistake in the first place when it was quite obvious to most on here is troubling.

Gait has some unique personal traits that are simply part of his makeup. Wears a suit, is almost always laid back and likes to delegate to his assistants. All that is fine and it clearly worked for the women's team but I don't know if that's really going to work for the men at least at the top of the D1 level. It's one thing to sort of pass the buck to the roster and injuries in year 1 but those excuses aren't holding up in year 2 I can promise you that. It's also a bit disconcerting to hear him not take any personal responsibility for the teams play, the record etc. That is an enormous red flag and something we saw in the latter part of the Desko era that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Again year 1 you can give a pass but when you read what CuseNhouse posted its hard not to be concerned and wonder if this is a blip or the first signs of trouble. It's also concerning that this staff appears to have double downed on sticking with starters well past the point where its clear we needed to give minutes to other players, ie Cook, Berkman, Murphy etc. Injuries or not, for it to take until UNC for Birtwistle to see extended minutes at attack is malpractice, especially when a idiot like me could see he should be playing.

I am very interested to see how this off-season goes and who does or doesn't enter the transfer portal. I am also curious to see how next years schedule takes shape and what this team/staff does via the portal. Not going to go overboard based on year 1 with a team that was missing its best player the entire year and a goalie situation that was the worst in recent memory but I also won't say that I don't have major questions/concerns about the start to the Gait era.

A lot of good points.

Regarding the defense, one of the starters shared with me post game that the scheme the entire D had learned under Rogers was totally scrapped under Petro and replaced with a much more complex package which caused issues

As far as Galt, we will see , but one of the biggest issues I have is the team did not get much better as the season went on ..the product was pretty much the same at the end as it was in the beginning , few adjustments were made until the hand was forced.

We all could see what was going on, but when our attack wasn’t producing , we didn’t try new solutions until the end. When Phaup struggled , we didn’t give Savage a look . When D slid unnecessarily , we didn’t take another look at talents like Kol or even last year starter Horan or 50 game starter Dipo. When both goalies can’t see the ball, show me Duffy , Katch ..do something to shake it up !

So would we have made a deep run,? probably unlikely due to lack or depth , drop off after starters , goalie Issues efc but I felt the coaches stayed with a lot of what wasn’t working in many games and just kept hitting repeat.

Coaching matters more than ever. We used to reload and let the talent run the show . But now everyone has talent, the Margin between most top teams is thin , any given Saturday is becoming commonplace.

We have an amazing incoming group coming in but we can’t just roll out the ball in practice ..these kids need to be coached , cohesion , culture is key , what is the team identify?

It all matters now more than ever.

 

[CrazyPeople]

Gaits hire seems destined to go one of two ways. Either the team is noticeably better next year and makes the tournament or the same issues pop up ie odd personnel decisions, bizarre press conferences, turnovers every other possession, a defense that's lost etc and all hell breaks lose that the hire was a mistake.

Not going to go overboard based on year 1 with a team that was missing its best player the entire year and a goalie situation that was the worst in recent memory but I also won't say that I don't have major questions/concerns about the start to the Gait era.

Do we have any insight on who works specifically with the goalie unit? Do they get individual attention and/or work at practice? I believe Desko and/or Donahue took goalies under their command in the past. Is this Petros department? Hopkins goalies weren't exactly lighting the world up post Schwartzman.

 

[SULAXAHOLIC]

A lot of good points.

Regarding the defense, one of the starters shared with me post game that the scheme the entire D had learned under Rogers was totally scrapped under Petro and replaced with a much more complex package which caused issues

As far as Galt, we will see , but one of the biggest issues I have is the team did not get much better as the season went on ..the product was pretty much the same at the end as it was in the beginning , few adjustments were made until the hand was forced.

We all could see what was going on, but when our attack wasn’t producing , we didn’t try new solutions until the end. When Phaup struggled , we didn’t give Savage a look . When D slid unnecessarily , we didn’t take another look at talents like Kol or even last year starter Horan or 50 game starter Dipo. When both goalies can’t see the ball, show me Duffy , Katch ..do something to shake it up !

So would we have made a deep run,? probably unlikely due to lack or depth , drop off after starters , goalie Issues efc but I felt the coaches stayed with a lot of what wasn’t working in many games and just kept hitting repeat.

Coaching matters more than ever. We used to reload and let the talent run the show . But now everyone has talent, the Margin between most top teams is thin , any given Saturday is becoming commonplace.

We have an amazing incoming group coming in but we can’t just roll out the ball in practice ..these kids need to be coached , cohesion , culture is key , what is the team identify?

It all matters now more than ever.

I have said it multiple times but individual player development has been non existent since Donahue retired.Petro will make someone a fine head coach but he will need his own recruits on Defense for his 30 different slide packages to even have a chance at Syracuse. Frankly I don’t see him staying that long. I read where someone posted players love Petro which is probably true but they also loved Roy III who was the DC the last time SU had a losing season.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Do we have any insight on who works specifically with the goalie unit? Do they get individual attention and/or work at practice? I believe Desko and/or Donahue took goalies under their command in the past. Is this Petros department? Hopkins goalies weren't exactly lighting the world up post Schwartzman.

Petro warms up the goalies pregame.

 

[cuselaxss26]

Honestly i don’t hate the schedule at all. Think it’s smart in way cause more rank teams play better chances beating few and getting at large. Which first acc needs a 6th team and tournament. Not just so have conference automatic but also so acc (clearly not this year) don’t take 5 at large bids possibly taking spot or two from a growing school deserving a shot. Would suggest need 6th team in acc or expand the field by least 4 more teams. To many schools are growing and getting better each year and always least one if not two teams get snubbed. But anyway i like schedule think if we wanna get this program back to what it was we need to schedule top teams and win leaving no doubt that we are back. I think only getting better when play best plus the more great teams play the better experience cause playoffs usually get the best teams and their best games. Yes maby a soft game here n there not a total cupcake but think stoney brooke hobart even a robert morris who will normally play you tough are good soft games but not cupcakes. Clearly things been diff with hiltz and some other injuries we had hurt bad also. The thing i’m most upset with is losing curry after this year. He has been sensational this year and really blew my mind. He will most certainly be hard to replace and think with birtwhisle stepping up you almost have to put tuck back at mid next year to have experience and leader in first mid specially since hiltz be back and have spallina coming in ( if spallina proves and earns starting spot ). B Curry you will be missed and even tho would have to go off completely in this last game hope you catch and beat your dads record and thank you for the amazing effort and heart you showed since walked on campus.