Who’s it gonna be guys and gals?

[RF2044]

DeVito if the line improves enough. Shrader if it doesn’t.

DeVito if HE improves. Shrader if he doesn't.

 

[cusefan88]

Considering how bad the center play was in 2019 and 2020 I hope Vettorello either becomes the most improved player on the team or he gets beat out for the starting job.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

DeVito if HE improves. Shrader if he doesn't.

I really think it’s as simple as that.

 

[TheCusian]

DeVito if HE improves. Shrader if he doesn't.

Two ways to go with this, so let's stay in the RF2044 is a level headed guy version.

I think this is probably more accurate (to your point):

Devito if both he and the OL improve. Shrader if they don't.

(Because I think it's not like the other QBs last year came in and lit the world on fire before the QB room was on the 3rd string true freshman who then got hurt. And then the OL coach left.)

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Joe Fields?

 

[RF2044]

Two ways to go with this, so let's stay in the RF2044 is a level headed guy version.

I think this is probably more accurate (to your point):

Devito if both he and the OL improve. Shrader if they don't.

(Because I think it's not like the other QBs last year came in and lit the world on fire before the QB room was on the 3rd string true freshman who then got hurt. And then the OL coach left.)

Honestly, I view them as two separate issues. My opinion here [shared by many, I believe] is that the two biggest determinants of the program's success will be QB play and the performance of the OL. Nothing controversial there.

But I separate them, because I believe that the OL is positioned well to improve. We have guys coming back from injury, we have new guys who weren't available last year, and improved depth, plus a new OL coach.

As for QB -- DeVito has all of the tools, but has demonstrated a poor feel for the game and subpar in-game instincts. In shorts, he excels -- but when the pass rush is live, things seem to happen too quickly for him, negating his arm talent somewhat. Now, perhaps the competition enables him to kick it up a notch this offseason, and he'll have a better senior year than his previous seasons.

If so, great. But that's all about his growth / development. Shrader was a higher rated recruit. He's kind of the opposite of DeVito, in that he doesn't have beautiful throwing mechanics, but he's a playmaker who moves the sticks. Like Dungey, his strengths can partially mask subpar OL play, if that continues to be an issue. He started games as a true frosh in the SEC, against some very good teams, and produced [not easy for a true frosh]. He's far from perfect, but he might be just what the doctor ordered to jump start what's been an anemic offense these past two years.

So yes -- I think it comes down to whether DeVito shows improvement. If he doesn't, he might lose his starting spot.

Certainly, having improved OL play is going to benefit whoever lines up under center, as well.

 

[AngryOtto]

In the NFL yes. I think in college you can play 2 QB's if you handle it correctly. There's the rub, it's not easy. If you can keep 75% of the offense the same so it's not obvious what you will call it can be done if skill is equal with slightly different skill sets. That could be what we have here. NOT SAYING IT WILL HAPPEN. (just wanted to be clear about that;-). But TD and GS aren't so different. I think they both have things they do better than the other but neither really does anything the other can't do. IF HCDB ends up playing both it won't necessarily be because neither could win the job. Maybe...neither will lose the job? Wouldn't that be cool? My guess is Dino will find what he is looking for as a differentiator and go with that guy. I also agree with others that the OL play will go a long way to helping Dino's decision. I'd like to say it shouldn't because in that scenario GS could be the better QB but if the OL playing well means we see TD, we may never see GS with a good line. That last sentence sounds really stupid but after the past couple years someone will have to prove to me it's not possible.

I’d have to disagree on one point. TD is not a runner. Sharder is mobile and can throw on the run. That is a huge difference when playing at su.

 

[money3189]

Honestly, I view them as two separate issues. My opinion here [shared by many, I believe] is that the two biggest determinants of the program's success will be QB play and the performance of the OL. Nothing controversial there.

But I separate them, because I believe that the OL is positioned well to improve. We have guys coming back from injury, we have new guys who weren't available last year, and improved depth, plus a new OL coach.

As for QB -- DeVito has all of the tools, but has demonstrated a poor feel for the game and subpar in-game instincts. In shorts, he excels -- but when the pass rush is live, things seem to happen too quickly for him, negating his arm talent somewhat. Now, perhaps the competition enables him to kick it up a notch this offseason, and he'll have a better senior year than his previous seasons.

If so, great. But that's all about his growth / development. Shrader was a higher rated recruit. He's kind of the opposite of DeVito, in that he doesn't have beautiful throwing mechanics, but he's a playmaker who moves the sticks. Like Dungey, his strengths can partially mask subpar OL play, if that continues to be an issue. He started games as a true frosh in the SEC, against some very good teams, and produced [not easy for a true frosh]. He's far from perfect, but he might be just what the doctor ordered to jump start what's been an anemic offense these past two years.

So yes -- I think it comes down to whether DeVito shows improvement. If he doesn't, he might lose his starting spot.

Certainly, having improved OL play is going to benefit whoever lines up under center, as well.

Knocked it out the park my man.

 

[TheCusian]

Honestly, I view them as two separate issues. My opinion here [shared by many, I believe] is that the two biggest determinants of the program's success will be QB play and the performance of the OL. Nothing controversial there.

But I separate them, because I believe that the OL is positioned well to improve. We have guys coming back from injury, we have new guys who weren't available last year, and improved depth, plus a new OL coach.

As for QB -- DeVito has all of the tools, but has demonstrated a poor feel for the game and subpar in-game instincts. In shorts, he excels -- but when the pass rush is live, things seem to happen too quickly for him, negating his arm talent somewhat. Now, perhaps the competition enables him to kick it up a notch this offseason, and he'll have a better senior year than his previous seasons.

If so, great. But that's all about his growth / development. Shrader was a higher rated recruit. He's kind of the opposite of DeVito, in that he doesn't have beautiful throwing mechanics, but he's a playmaker who moves the sticks. Like Dungey, his strengths can partially mask subpar OL play, if that continues to be an issue. He started games as a true frosh in the SEC, against some very good teams, and produced [not easy for a true frosh]. He's far from perfect, but he might be just what the doctor ordered to jump start what's been an anemic offense these past two years.

So yes -- I think it comes down to whether DeVito shows improvement. If he doesn't, he might lose his starting spot.

Certainly, having improved OL play is going to benefit whoever lines up under center, as well.

I agree with your assessment of TD, but I think it’s really tough to distinguish between his happy feet and missed reads being him not doing what’s asked of him or a byproduct of really awful OL play. I think one begets the other in kind of a downward spiral, so it’s on both.

I appreciate the well thought out argument, too.

 

[tep624]

Now I know he didn't pick up the first down - but you can't overstate the wrinkle that having a mobile QB adds to an offense, especially when your line is suspect.


I really like Shrader. I think he has the potential to be an excellent QB in this system.

Most of Garrett Shrader's pass and run attempts at Mississippi State

Welcome to the Cuse! I have no idea why Mississippi State wanted to start that other guy all year, skimming through these games Shrader seemed like the much ...

www.youtube.com

 

[007]

Now I know he didn't pick up the first down - but you can't overstate the wrinkle that having a mobile QB adds to an offense, especially when your line is suspect.


I really like Shrader. I think he has the potential to be an excellent QB in this system.

Most of Garrett Shrader's pass and run attempts at Mississippi State

Welcome to the Cuse! I have no idea why Mississippi State wanted to start that other guy all year, skimming through these games Shrader seemed like the much ...

www.youtube.com

Here's what I like best about that play...After taking a hit like that, falling from what - 6-7 feet in the air - without bracing himself and bouncing off the turf, he immediately extends his arm out for the extra yard to try to get to the 1st down marker.

I don't know how well he will play at SU, but I think he might share some genes with Dungey.

 

[Scooch]

I agree with your assessment of TD, but I think it’s really tough to distinguish between his happy feet and missed reads being him not doing what’s asked of him or a byproduct of really awful OL play. I think one begets the other in kind of a downward spiral, so it’s on both.

I appreciate the well thought out argument, too.

What concerns me about DeVito is that there have been times when he had happy feet in games when the OL was performing well. I get the argument that it could have been some PTSD from games when the OL was garbage, but, fair or not, he’s got be able to shake that off and hang in the pocket.

I can count on one hand the number of seasons over the past 30 years where SU had a great OL. Our best QBs are the ones that overcome our usual OL mediocrity. If DeVito can’t then he won’t ever be a good SU QB.

 

[baggerbob]

I see the QB situation going something like this. I assume TD has some backers on the team being here for so long and Dino knows he needs to give him a shot. And TD will look pretty good in Fall camp as there is not much to deal with in the way of dealing with pass rushers. I see him starting but Shrader getting some series. I hope series are 50/50 to start but would guess TD gets more of the bulk. I'd like to see two series for Devito and then 2 series for the GS. Really hoping Schrader gets more than one series a half and I kind of have a feeling he may. Dino knows he needs to win this year. He will do whatever he can to win now. I think we will have some improved line play up the middle. If a kid like Anthony Red could break out at Tackle that would be huge allowing Servais to play at Center. Going from a horrid OL in 2020 to OK this year would be a huge improvement,. And TD will play better because of it but I really think we will be a fair amount more successful with Schrader regardless. Tommy might be a bit better as a pure passer but we all know there is more to being a QB than just that. Our line won't be great and in those situations I think TD isn't going to be nearly as productive as Shrader. Shrader had some good experience as a true freshman in the SEC. He can throw it pretty well. He is tall, athletic, a dynamic runner, fearless and a capable passer. Really looking forward to his ability to move in the pocket buying more time and taking off on scrambles making positive plays out of what are likely throw aways and sacks from Devito. Shrader is such a competitor and will do whatever he can to win. I loved Dungey and I really think GS's play is going to be very similar to him. Note, that doesn't automatically mean I think we will 10 games like in 2018. Dungey's stats were pretty similar in all of his Sophomore, Junior and Senior years. We just had a better team around him his Senior year and a capable back-up QB coaches didn't game plan for.

People are saying if we have an improved run game Devito will play better which is true but i'm not sure the run game will get a whole lot better with TD in there. He is just too easy to game plan for when teams just rush us up the middle and we have no answer. When the D comes up the middle, If its a run they stuff it. If its a pass Devito can't do much to make that situation work. But when GS plays you will see the defense has a much harder time. GS will escape the pocket and burn you. They may need to keep a spy back there on him a lot of the time. They can't just send everyone up the middle with him which should help our run game dramatically just spreading the defense out more. And with GS we won't need to keep our RB's and TE's in chipping all the time. It should give us more receiving options in the passing game. Hopefully that means some options to open up the middle of the field so our passing game isn't so one dimensional. Hoping another WR (possibly Alford or Ja'Vontae) is ready to step up and play some snaps on the outside along with Queely. Those guys should be more effective blockers out there and we can get Taj some more snaps in the slot. That would also help spread the defense out and improve the run game up the middle as they will need to focus some coverage on the short bubble passing game on the outsides with more effective blocking at the boundry.

With GS playing I will shed a tear when we actually do an RPO run play where he fakes the hand-off... AND KEEPS IT for a big gain around the outside. So sick of LB's not even trying to stay at home and protect the edge because we NEVER ran the QB in those situations. Those Dungey'esq run's are huge for helping spread out the run game.

Playing GS will lead to more turnovers however but that is something we will have to live with He doesn't protect the ball quite enough and will force some throw into coverage a little bit and he will get a few more fumbles. But the positives of feeling the pocket, moving the chains with his legs and spreading out the defense are far going to out way those negatives. We should have a chance to make something positive on every play.

Really looking forward to the season. I really only expect 5 or 6 wins but that will be great in comparison to last year. I think we could be competitive in most every game this year.

Like the reasoning, that's why I'm hoping our big TE can catch the ball. If Mang can utilize his big body to catch the ball at6-7 265, across the middle. That will back the LB's off the line of scrimmage.

 

[TheCusian]

What concerns me about DeVito is that there have been times when he had happy feet in games when the OL was performing well. I get the argument that it could have been some PTSD from games when the OL was garbage, but, fair or not, he’s got be able to shake that off and hang in the pocket.

I can count on one hand the number of seasons over the past 30 years where SU had a great OL. Our best QBs are the ones that overcome our usual OL mediocrity. If DeVito can’t then he won’t ever be a good SU QB.

Very fair. Let’s hope he matures past it somehow. At the very least, it’s good that we have options

 

[tep624]

Here's what I like best about that play...After taking a hit like that, falling from what - 6-7 feet in the air - without bracing himself and bouncing off the turf, he immediately extends his arm out for the extra yard to try to get to the 1st down marker.

I don't know how well he will play at SU, but I think he might share some genes with Dungey.

The second link I posted is pretty nice because it has the majority of his game snaps at Miss St.

Its important to note that the only video and stats we have of him are as a true frosh in the SEC. Some of the decision making is suspect but it totally reminds me of a young Dungey in that respect. Always trying to make/extend a play even to a detriment lol. I expect he will give DeVito at a minimum a tough run for his money. But I’m in the camp that don’t think he’s coming here to sit.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

How bad will our WRs be? If they are still worse than most FCS schools you'd be crazy to not start Shrader. I've never seen a team play so bad for their QB as we do for Devito all his best throws seem to be dropped.

 

[money3189]

What concerns me about DeVito is that there have been times when he had happy feet in games when the OL was performing well. I get the argument that it could have been some PTSD from games when the OL was garbage, but, fair or not, he’s got be able to shake that off and hang in the pocket.

I can count on one hand the number of seasons over the past 30 years where SU had a great OL. Our best QBs are the ones that overcome our usual OL mediocrity. If DeVito can’t then he won’t ever be a good SU QB.

You are right on. Its a lazy analysis when people just say the O line was bad. At some point people have to look beyond the poor line play and evaluate him in other areas. Scooch you actually do that. These are areas Ive watch TD since his red shirt freshman year. His quick game, when he has a clean pocket, his pre snap protections, his post snap reads, his decision making under duress (what every QB has to do at some point). He struggles in some of those areas. Like you said the happy feet has been an issue. Some people just dont see it or they refuse to admit there is something off with him. It needs to be corrected or he will never reach his full potential. Thats what the staff is working on.

 

[money3189]

How bad will our WRs be? If they are still worse than most FCS schools you'd be crazy to not start Shrader. I've never seen a team play so bad for their QB as we do for Devito all his best throws seem to be dropped.

All his best throws are dropped? Taj has dropped a couple verticals balls but from the last few years Devito's best throws were caught. Overall the Wr group is soild and will benefit from consistent line play and a functionable offense.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Mr. 7x7 will win the job. G money will get packages.

Against Ohio the O will struggle being that it is the 1st game and the OL still needs to gel.

Schiano will blitz us to death and the O will look like crap. We will move the ball late when TD is finally benched in the 4th.

Albany is the season. Dino will either use it to try to fix TD (meaning we don’t see GS until the 4th) or he will start GS to get him ready going forward. If the later happens we make a push for a Bowl and Dino gets another year even without a Bowl. If the former happens it will piss off 88.3% of the board and we are 2-2 heading into ACC play with a QB controversy, which puts Dino on the hot seat.

 

[CIL]

Remember when Dungey said keep an eye out on Chance Amie instead of Tommy? There’s a reason for it.

Some players just can’t adjust to game speed. Tommy dominated seven on sevens, the. Struggled his senior year at Bosco - literally with the same critiques we are discussing in this thread.

It was chalked up as a rebuilding year for Bosco. I’m not so sure anymore. Personally, I would put Tommy on a very short leash. I hope he proves me wrong, and I’m rooting for the kid. At this point, I just don’t see it.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Remember when Dungey said keep an eye out on Chance Amie instead of Tommy? There’s a reason for it.

Some players just can’t adjust to game speed. Tommy dominated seven on sevens, the. Struggled his senior year at Bosco - literally with the same critiques we are discussing in this thread.

It was chalked up as a rebuilding year for Bosco. I’m not so sure anymore. Personally, I would put Tommy on a very short leash. I hope he proves me wrong, and I’m rooting for the kid. At this point, I just don’t see it.

This has always been my concern, excellent post.

 

[kcsu]

Now I know he didn't pick up the first down - but you can't overstate the wrinkle that having a mobile QB adds to an offense, especially when your line is suspect.


I really like Shrader. I think he has the potential to be an excellent QB in this system.

Most of Garrett Shrader's pass and run attempts at Mississippi State

Welcome to the Cuse! I have no idea why Mississippi State wanted to start that other guy all year, skimming through these games Shrader seemed like the much ...

www.youtube.com

Interesting that he ran the same O that Dino used to win 10 games

 

[Scooch]

You are right on. Its a lazy analysis when people just say the O line was bad. At some point people have to look beyond the poor line play and evaluate him in other areas. Scooch you actually do that. These are areas Ive watch TD since his red shirt freshman year. His quick game, when he has a clean pocket, his pre snap protections, his post snap reads, his decision making under duress (what every QB has to do at some point). He struggles in some of those areas. Like you said the happy feet has been an issue. Some people just dont see it or they refuse to admit there is something off with him. It needs to be corrected or he will never reach his full potential. Thats what the staff is working on.

Thanks. Here’s where I net out… there are lots of people saying that if our OL is strong, and the WRs are good, and the running game is productive, then DeVito will be a good QB. Well, no kidding! There aren’t too many 3+ star D1 QBs who *wouldn’t* be good if every other facet of the offense is achieving at a high level.

However, this is SU. One of our position groups will be mediocre, or even below average. Good SU QBs have always had the ability to cover for that. *That* is what will make DeVito, and the team, successful this season.

I was sky high on him coming into the 2019 season, and it hasn’t gone all that well since then. Really hoping he puts it all together this year, or we have someone in the wings who can get the job done. Either way, every other position group aside, SU doesn’t win unless the QB performs very well. That’s our program.

 

[kcsu]

Thanks. Here’s where I net out… there are lots of people saying that if our OL is strong, and the WRs are good, and the running game is productive, then DeVito will be a good QB. Well, no kidding! There aren’t too many 3+ star D1 QBs who *wouldn’t* be good if every other facet of the offense is achieving at a high level.

However, this is SU. One of our position groups will be mediocre, or even below average. Good SU QBs have always had the ability to cover for that. *That* is what will make DeVito, and the team, successful this season.

I was sky high on him coming into the 2019 season, and it hasn’t gone all that well since then. Really hoping he puts it all together this year, or we have someone in the wings who can get the job done. Either way, every other position group aside, SU doesn’t win unless the QB performs very well. That’s our program.

You simply cannot win if you dont have solid QB play in football at any level. If you are a team that has deficiancies in other areas like the OL you need a QB that can overcome them. Syracuse has always done well when the QB was strong. Tommy in my opinion has a pro arm. He can make all the throws. Guess what Joe G has a pro shot. He can shoot 30% from half court in a horse game. It doesnt make them good or great as the game isnt played 7 on 7. TD needs to show out early or im sure he will be pulled. I hope he does great as by all accounts he is a great kid who works his arse off. Still it comes down to game production and the program is on the line so his time is and should be short.

 

[money3189]

Thanks. Here’s where I net out… there are lots of people saying that if our OL is strong, and the WRs are good, and the running game is productive, then DeVito will be a good QB. Well, no kidding! There aren’t too many 3+ star D1 QBs who *wouldn’t* be good if every other facet of the offense is achieving at a high level.

However, this is SU. One of our position groups will be mediocre, or even below average. Good SU QBs have always had the ability to cover for that. *That* is what will make DeVito, and the team, successful this season.

I was sky high on him coming into the 2019 season, and it hasn’t gone all that well since then. Really hoping he puts it all together this year, or we have someone in the wings who can get the job done. Either way, every other position group aside, SU doesn’t win unless the QB performs very well. That’s our program.

Lol. Well said. Great points.