Who would we rather have at the helm next?

[rrlbees]

Why “2 more”?

I guess I don’t understand the point. Kids are gone. Why is “2” the magic number?

Because

 

[Brooky03]

We have zero, let me repeat ZERO 2023 prospects signed for next season.

Not that uncommon with young rosters. I’m more optimistic about this team than most.

 

[Gotothehole]

Friendly reminder that at one point Jim Boeheim announced his intent to retire, Mike Hopkins was next in line to become the SU coach, and then Boeheim took it back and Mike left. Now he is doing the same thing to Red. Recruiting has been down since Hopkins left.

 

[Orangefizz]

Hops buyout drops to $1 million at the end of this upcoming season. My top three are hop red and JHart

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Because

Because

Dino

 

[CuseFaninVT]

My perspective is that if he’s forced out early, the next couple seasons will be worse than if we just keep him 2 more years and let him retire. The game hasn’t passed him by, he just hasn’t had the talent (his fault). Well, I’m finally seeing some of the talent we’ve been missing, so I’m of the opinion stability at the coaching position gives us the best opportunity for short term success. And that’s what we’re talking about, imo, the short term. Like I said earlier, any perceived damage to the program is done; it won’t get worse.

That’s the long and short of it. I suppose the counter to that perspective is that the new blood will take off running and give us a higher ceiling with the same floor.

When I think of coaching transitions at other power programs, designed succession plans have seemed to work much better than abrupt firings.

Early? Are you actually serious with that? FFS.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Friendly reminder that at one point Jim Boeheim announced his intent to retire, Mike Hopkins was next in line to become the SU coach, and then Boeheim took it back and Mike left. Now he is doing the same thing to Red. Recruiting has been down since Hopkins left.

This is exactly what I’m referring to when anyone claims JB leaving after this season is anything close to ‘early.’

 

[Brooky03]

Early? Are you actually serious with that? FFS.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

So you’ve got nothing? He’s going to be what, 81 in two seasons. You think that’s what recruits are looking for?

 

[Brooky03]

So you’ve got nothing? He’s going to be what, 81 in two seasons. You think that’s what recruits are looking for?

I would put money on the line that more recruits prefer a proven top 10 coach all-time, at any age, over a new non-HOF coach scrambling to piece together something.

But neither of us know

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I would put money on the line that more recruits prefer a proven top 10 coach all-time, at any age, over a new non-HOF coach scrambling to piece together something.

But neither of us know

id take your money on that one. We know it because of who we‘re actually getting, while Duke pulls in 5 stars all over the place. With the non Hof coach.

 

[Brooky03]

id take your money on that one. We know it because of who we‘re actually getting, while Duke pulls in 5 stars all over the place. With the non Hof coach.

…who was a part of a designed succession plan. Almost my entire point.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

…who was a part of a designed succession plan. Almost my entire point.

Yeah, we had a succession plan. One party left because the other wasn’t going to hold up his end of the bargain.

So let’s reward him with more time despite poor results.

 

[Brooky03]

Yeah, we had a succession plan. One party left because the other wasn’t going to hold up his end of the bargain.

So let’s reward him with more time despite poor results.

There were still successful seasons after the head coach-in-waiting left.

It’s not a matter of rewarding poor seasons. It’s a matter of putting the program in position for success.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

My perspective is that if he’s forced out early, the next couple seasons will be worse than if we just keep him 2 more years and let him retire. The game hasn’t passed him by, he just hasn’t had the talent (his fault). Well, I’m finally seeing some of the talent we’ve been missing, so I’m of the opinion stability at the coaching position gives us the best opportunity for short term success. And that’s what we’re talking about, imo, the short term. Like I said earlier, any perceived damage to the program is done; it won’t get worse.

That’s the long and short of it. I suppose the counter to that perspective is that the new blood will take off running and give us a higher ceiling with the same floor.

When I think of coaching transitions at other power programs, designed succession plans have seemed to work much better than abrupt firings.

At this point, it is impossible to force JB out early.

 

[Sherman20]

We are all aware of the revenue and profit Syracuse basketball rakes in. We’re top 5 there.

The question of the Dome being a differentiator was in terms of what recruits care about, not about the revenue potential of a big building that holds a bunch of people.

Coaches want to coach where they have resources. Syracuse is one of the top 10 in spending on its basketball program.

 

[Wrinkle]

I do think it's a difficult call and the poll reflects that. I like Red more and more all the time but I still would go Hop

 

[Oakland]

My perspective is that if he’s forced out early, the next couple seasons will be worse than if we just keep him 2 more years and let him retire. The game hasn’t passed him by, he just hasn’t had the talent (his fault). Well, I’m finally seeing some of the talent we’ve been missing, so I’m of the opinion stability at the coaching position gives us the best opportunity for short term success. And that’s what we’re talking about, imo, the short term. Like I said earlier, any perceived damage to the program is done; it won’t get worse.

That’s the long and short of it. I suppose the counter to that perspective is that the new blood will take off running and give us a higher ceiling with the same floor.

When I think of coaching transitions at other power programs, designed succession plans have seemed to work much better than abrupt firings.

Forced out early was 10 years ago, we are already 5 years into too late.

 

[Todd23]

why do you think attendance has cratered?

They've priced me out. I don't think the joy I get going to the game is worth the ticket cost. It is not affordable.

 

[Brooky03]

Forced out early was 10 years ago, we are already 5 years into too late.

The farthest back we could point to as the beginning of the slide is the 2016-17 season. Prior to that, there were some below average seasons sprinkled in but nothing out of the ordinary for the history of the program.

After that bad 2017 season with 19 wins and an NIT birth, we had two 20+ win seasons and a S16. No program would fire a coach in that scenario. So that brings us to the 2020 season as the mark of the first time a reasonable fan could argue JB could/should be fired. Well, you gotta finish that season before you decide that, so now we’re at the off-season before the 2020-21 season. That’s two seasons ago. And that’s when I could entertain the argument for terminating his contract. Any time before that would have been early. He’s “overdue” by 2 seasons at most.

To my point about firing him “early,” I’m referring to the likely timeline of his retirement in a couple seasons. It’s “early” relative to that. There isn’t a coach we can bring in last minute who will win us more games the next couple seasons than JB. Which, importantly, does not mean there aren’t coaches available who are better coaches and recruiters than JB.

 

[Brooky03]

This thread is a billboard for ‘be careful what you wish for, you might just get it’

 

[RealMcNeil]

The farthest back we could point to as the beginning of the slide is the 2016-17 season. Prior to that, there were some below average seasons sprinkled in but nothing out of the ordinary for the history of the program.

After that bad 2017 season with 19 wins and an NIT birth, we had two 20+ win seasons and a S16. No program would fire a coach in that scenario. So that brings us to the 2020 season as the mark of the first time a reasonable fan could argue JB could/should be fired. Well, you gotta finish that season before you decide that, so now we’re at the off-season before the 2020-21 season. That’s two seasons ago. And that’s when I could entertain the argument for terminating his contract. Any time before that would have been early. He’s “overdue” by 2 seasons at most.

To my point about firing him “early,” I’m referring to the likely timeline of his retirement in a couple seasons. It’s “early” relative to that. There isn’t a coach we can bring in last minute who will win us more games the next couple seasons than JB. Which, importantly, does not mean there aren’t coaches available who are better coaches and recruiters than JB.

Maybe I haven’t bothered to follow this back and forth closely enough, but what changes in two years that prevents the turbulence of the eventual regime change? Really just a matter of SU taking its lumps/losses now or later. Is avoidance a healthy coping mechanism?

 

[chugg21]

This thread is a billboard for ‘be careful what you wish for, you might just get it’

Yeah for the folks trying to hold on to the past and think things are going to somehow start pointing upward as JB approaches 80. If the pain is coming during the transition regardless than give it to us now. I'd rather go .400 and miss the tourney this year and be on the upswing by '24 then go .500 for 2 more years of JB then .400 for 2 years of transition and then things on the right track in '26. Rip the damn band-aid off.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This thread is a billboard for ‘be careful what you wish for, you might just get it’

We just had a losing season. What should I be careful wishing about?

 

[Brooky03]

Maybe I haven’t bothered to follow this back and forth closely enough, but what changes in two years that prevents the turbulence of the eventual regime change? Really just a matter of SU taking its lumps/losses now or later. Is avoidance a healthy coping mechanism?

The main points of this debate are kicking him out with an abrupt coaching change vs. following a succession plan.

One allows the program to limit attrition via transfer portal and tailor recruiting pitches accordingly. The other ignores all of that.

The difference between the two is like a doctor trying to put a car crash victim back together vs a scheduled appendectomy.