Why Boeheim Is Not A Good Coach

[Jasoncuse]

That thing was awful. Has this guy never watched a Syracuse game before? Does he have no idea that the zone is designed to do exactly what he was ripping on? There's so much in that video that I want to rip on and respond to but it just isn't worth the time to do so.

Who is Croft? Lara?

 

[thebigeast44]

I've always thought that JB is underrated as a coach and overrated as a recruiter. He's a very good recruiter for his system but has not brought in nearly the same amount of talent as the elite schools. There are many reasons for that but it is a fact.

Although you wouldn't know it from the numerous people in Syracuse I've argued with over the years who think Syracuse has at least as much talent as the elite schools if not more. Check out the link below for the number of McDonald's AA by college from 1977-2011:

http://statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college

 

[Rossco123]

I think that's about as clear as anything, anyone can say about JB.

 

[Ghost]

Proof the zone doesn't work: Their big man got the ball in the post with a defender on his back, the same thing that happens against man-to-man. You win, JB sucks. I stopped watching pretty quick tbh.

They "opt not to go into the post" - lol - the post was freaking covered, they had no option to throw an entry pass.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Do you honestly believe that guys like Anthony, Coleman, Douglas, Owens, Seikaly, Schayes, Warrick, Orr, Hart and Thomas have not had substantial careers in the NBA?

Substantial? Sure. Danny Schayes played for 18 years! But the fact that he's best known for being the center who "gave up" Jabbar's 20,000th point also helps make the writer's argument.

With the exception of Carmelo Anthony not a single guy who played for Boeheim can be considered a bona fide NBA star.

Some good players?
Sure.
(Although anyone who makes the NBA is a pretty #&_@ good player).
But not stars...even if they were big college stars and highly drafted.
(And how come Pearl isn't on the list)?

In my opinion there may have been no bigger disappointment EVER than Derrick Coleman.
He put up decent numbers.
But he had the potential to be the greatest power forward EVER in the NBA.
Better than Karl Malone...better than anyone.
There was nothing he couldn't do well at the highest level...with the body and physical tools to get it done.
He just seemed to lack the discipline and demeanor to apply hmself.

I know. I know. Whoopty-damn-doo.
Exactly.

 

[ForeverOrange]

I've always thought that JB is underrated as a coach and overrated as a recruiter. He's a very good recruiter for his system but has not brought in nearly the same amount of talent as the elite schools. There are many reasons for that but it is a fact.

Although you wouldn't know it from the numerous people in Syracuse I've argued with over the years who think Syracuse has at least as much talent as the elite schools if not more. Check out the link below for the number of McDonald's AA by college from 1977-2011:

http://statsheet.com/bhsb/mcplayers_by_college

It's kind of hard to judge him on recruiting being as though we went through those sanction years that really impacted recruiting for quite some time, I would almost bet that we would have a lot more McD's had that not happened. IMO he is a good coach, he may not be coach K, Izzo, or even Calhoun great, but he's a good coach, one of his biggest accomplishments was keeping Syracuse basketball winning during that time frame where recruits didn't consider us anymore, he was still able to get us to the dance and still make us competitive. Granted, we were not the cream of the crop during the 90's Uconn took that, but at the same time Gtown fell hard during that same time frame and yet we stayed steady and consistent through all of it. Steady and consistent is his trademark, that may not be great, may not be elite, but it has worked for him so why change now?

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Last year at the Garden, DC was talking to some guys in my area. They asked him why he didn't dominate more in the NBA. DC said, "cheeseburgers". I love that man's honesty.

 

[Moontan]

Steve Fisher has a NC.

You're kidding, right? Terrible example.

That was Bill Frieder's team. Frieder announced that he would be coaching at Arizona State the following year and was fired by Michigan on the eve of the tournament.

That would be akin to JAB getting canned right before the 2003 tournament and 6-year assistant Mike Hopkins being named interim coach for the tourney.

 

[rrlbees]

Substantial? Sure. Danny Schayes played for 18 years! But the fact that he's best known for being the center who "gave up" Jabbar's 20,000th point also helps make the writer's argument.

With the exception of Carmelo Anthony not a single guy who played for Boeheim can be considered a bona fide NBA star.

Some good players?
Sure.
(Although anyone who makes the NBA is a pretty #&_@ good player).
But not stars...even if they were big college stars and highly drafted.
(And how come Pearl isn't on the list)?

In my opinion there may have been no bigger disappointment EVER than Derrick Coleman.
He put up decent numbers.
But he had the potential to be the greatest power forward EVER in the NBA.
Better than Karl Malone...better than anyone.
There was nothing he couldn't do well at the highest level...with the body and physical tools to get it done.
He just seemed to lack the discipline and demeanor to apply hmself.

I know. I know. Whoopty-damn-doo.
Exactly.

But those guys all did pretty damn well at SU didn't they? And that's all that mattes because JB coaches SU.

 

[br801]

My analysis of Boeheim is he's like the guy that gets last in the olympics. He deserves to be talked about in the same league as coach K, Izzo, Dean smith etc, but probably the worst out all of them. That being said if you get last in the olympics you're still in the d*** olympics.

I read your first sentence and thought it was a BlueCurtain post. But the rest of it was way too positive to be him.

 

[CaptainJ]

From that list, JB and JC did a hell of a lot with much less than the blue bloods had. Myself, I do too little because of too much JD.

 

[Antiprodigy]

I'm sorry, but to me, all you have to do is look at the difference in the players from the time they start their career at SU, till the time they are finished their career at SU, and see the improvement to tell how good the coaching has been.

Not all players will respond to coaching. So all coaches will have examples of players who never truly succeeded. And the great players would probably succeed, even if i coached them.

Where the greatness of a coach comes into question, is that middle ground of player, who needs coaching to really reach their capabilities.

Obviously, it is purely conjecture as to how close any coach can get that player to his peak. I would assume that for many kids, this very idea plays a part in his decision to go to a certain school.

Obviously, many kids thought that JB was the right person to get them to reach their capabilities.

I, myself, can think of many kids who have played for SU, over the years, who vastly exceeded my expections for their careers. On this past team, alone, I think we can almost all agree that there was never any expectation that Scoop could improve as much as he has in his time on the hill.

In this case, a dare someone to argue that JB was not a great coach for Scoop.

 

[BleedsOrange44]

Doesn't the fact that Syracuse players don't have very much NBA success mean Boeheim IS a great coach? I mean, if he has guys that under his coaching look like NBA players, then without his coaching can't play with NBA guys, it means he's getting the most or more out of them than they're capable. And winning at the major D-1 level with players that aren't really big time NBA guys. To me, it speaks to Boeheim's credit that he's had so much success.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Also, Carmelo was on the hill for one year! He really developed all his bad habits in one year? Wow!

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Doesn't the fact that Syracuse players don't have very much NBA success mean Boeheim IS a great coach? I mean, if he has guys that under his coaching look like NBA players, then without his coaching can't play with NBA guys, it means he's getting the most or more out of them than they're capable. And winning at the major D-1 level with players that aren't really big time NBA guys. To me, it speaks to Boeheim's credit that he's had so much success.

Some might say, his guys get to sit back and rest on defense more than on other college teams. They can focus all their energy on offense. You get to the NBA and have to bump bodies up and down the court on both ends. All the sudden you don't have as much energy for jump shots as you used to. Not everyone seems to make the defensive transition so well. Players have so much freedom in JB's offense as well, when they get to the NBA, it can be hard for them to mesh in with other top talents and not just look for their own shot. (See Johnson, Wes - Flynn, Jonny and Greene, Donte for recent examples)

 

[BleedsOrange44]

Some might say, his guys get to sit back and rest on defense more than on other college teams. They can focus all their energy on offense. You get to the NBA and have to bump bodies up and down the court on both ends. All the sudden you don't have as much energy for jump shots as you used to. Not everyone seems to make the defensive transition so well. Players have so much freedom in JB's offense as well, when they get to the NBA, it can be hard for them to mesh in with other top talents and not just look for their own shot. (See Johnson, Wes - Flynn, Jonny and Greene, Donte for recent examples)

Solid point. I agree on the offensive freedom point. Defensively, I disagree saying Syracuse gets to "sit back and rest" on defense. That zone is aggressive, requires a lot of movement, and is not simply a "sit back and rest" type of defense. I understand the stereotype with the zone, and Syraucse has certainly had their share of lazy defenders. But anyone who watches the zone regularly wouldn't say that.

 

[CusefanATL]

Show me some empirical evidence regarding the NBA careers of players from other "top tier teams." Be sure to include Duke too.

Not sure where you're going with the NFL comparison. I believe that's an entirely different sport.

What do you mean you dont get where I am going with the NFL comparison?

Our football team has been average at best over the last 25 years and it has spit out much more NFL talent than our elite basketball team has produced nba talent.

self explanatory.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

It's kind of hard to judge him on recruiting being as though we went through those sanction years that really impacted recruiting for quite some time, I would almost bet that we would have a lot more McD's had that not happened. IMO he is a good coach, he may not be coach K, Izzo, or even Calhoun great, but he's a good coach, one of his biggest accomplishments was keeping Syracuse basketball winning during that time frame where recruits didn't consider us anymore, he was still able to get us to the dance and still make us competitive. Granted, we were not the cream of the crop during the 90's Uconn took that, but at the same time Gtown fell hard during that same time frame and yet we stayed steady and consistent through all of it. Steady and consistent is his trademark, that may not be great, may not be elite, but it has worked for him so why change now?

It is not over yet. Yes, JB has been steady and consistent.

But with his last cycle of years (however that may be) JB is poised to bring SU into the elite. JB has done well in the past finding players that will grow and develop into good college players. He did this primarily because the cream of the crop were going elsewhere. He, of course, would have wanted the most talented players but they were not choosing to come here (look at the McD chart for confirmation of what happened in the past).

Now, with JBs fame and credentials he is finally in the mix with the big recruits. You add a couple of the big time recruits to SU for a while and there is a chance for big time success. You add those potential premier years in to the last three - even though '09-'10 was done old school- and you are averaging 30 wins per season for a 5-10 year span. Throw in a couple of FFs and we could call SU elite. It's not over.

 

[CusefanATL]

Show me some empirical evidence regarding the NBA careers of players from other "top tier teams." Be sure to include Duke too.

Not sure where you're going with the NFL comparison. I believe that's an entirely different sport.

and duke BLOWS our pros away... i have no idea what you mean by that.

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/colleges_nba_draft/duke_blue_devils.html?state=stop

 

[CaptainJ]

What do you mean you dont get where I am going with the NFL comparison?

Our football team has been average at best over the last 25 years and it has spit out much more NFL talent than our elite basketball team has produced nba talent.

self explanatory.

Dammit, your edit ruined my joke and DM reference.

In all seriousness, I know what you mean though. The difference is certainly noteworthy.

 

[All4SU]

Every defense has vulnerabilities. Every defense can be beat. I'll take JB's ability to design and adapt a defense over this guy's opinion. The fact that he's trying to get exposure on YouTube pretty much says it all.

 

[NKR1978]

I'm sorry, but to me, all you have to do is look at the difference in the players from the time they start their career at SU, till the time they are finished their career at SU, and see the improvement to tell how good the coaching has been.

Not all players will respond to coaching. So all coaches will have examples of players who never truly succeeded. And the great players would probably succeed, even if i coached them.

Where the greatness of a coach comes into question, is that middle ground of player, who needs coaching to really reach their capabilities.

Obviously, it is purely conjecture as to how close any coach can get that player to his peak. I would assume that for many kids, this very idea plays a part in his decision to go to a certain school.

Obviously, many kids thought that JB was the right person to get them to reach their capabilities.

I, myself, can think of many kids who have played for SU, over the years, who vastly exceeded my expections for their careers. On this past team, alone, I think we can almost all agree that there was never any expectation that Scoop could improve as much as he has in his time on the hill.

In this case, a dare someone to argue that JB was not a great coach for Scoop.

Just recently as far as development:

Scoop, Fab, Andy, Rick, dnic, AO, trob, Hakim, Kueth, Preston, Watkins, Dion - these are all guys in the last 11 years who have improved by leaps and bounds during their time at Syracuse. And I'm sure that this is nowhere near an exhaustive list.

Seriously, I love that some people are saying he isn't k or calhoun. K and calhoun are the two best coaches in the history of college basketball and I don't think anyone else has an argument to even be put in that top 2. JB is easily one of the 15 best ever at his chosen profession. By any measure and for all his faults, of which there are many, he is truly a great basketball coach.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

 

[br801]

and duke BLOWS our pros away... i have no idea what you mean by that.

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/colleges_nba_draft/duke_blue_devils.html?state=stop

I was saying look at the totality of the NBA careers of SU players v. Duke players, not who has had more players drafted or more players currently in the league.

 

[CaptainJ]

Every defense has vulnerabilities. Every defense can be beat. I'll take JB's ability to design and adapt a defense over this guy's opinion. The fact that he's trying to get exposure on YouTube pretty much says it all.

I was about to "like" your post until I read the youtube part. Sadly, youtube propaganda(Kony 2012) is likely to help get us involved in yet another undeclared war. The medium shouldn't be mocked as much as the message, in my opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree about the defense. JB has constructed it in such a way that SU nearly has a trademark on the 2-3 at this point in time.

 

[All4SU]

I was about to "like" your post until I read the youtube part. Sadly, youtube propaganda(Kony 2012) is likely to help get us involved in yet another undeclared war. The medium shouldn't be mocked as much as the message, in my opinion.

I don't mock YouTube, I LOVE YouTube. I am a YouTube addict. But this guy is not a household name in coaching, from what I can tell he isn't earning a living based on his "expertise."