zone The game has passed JB by

[ssbriefcase]

sorry but you make it sound like coach K and many others are turning to it EXCLUSIVELY ?

Never said that, not close. Man, you can't be for real?

 

[OrangeDW]

zone is 1 for 40. (not even really) m2m is 39 of 40. what's the definition of success exactly ?


(edit: i say not really cuz boeheim used to know how to mix defenses to his advantage. )

Really? Unlv played man to man?

 

[tbonezone]

"it should never be a question of either/or for a well coached team. both are viable."

that was my post above. and you clearly object. my assumption therefore naturally is that you are pro zone 100 % of the time . are you for real or just undecided as to your true opinions ?

 

[ssbriefcase]

"it should never be a question of either/or for a well coached team. both are viable."

that was my post above. and you clearly object. my assumption therefore naturally is that you are pro zone 100 % of the time . are you for real or just undecided as to your true opinions ?

I'm for JB doing what he wants. If that's 100% zone, that's fine by me. I've seen the results for over 35 years, to trust his judgement. I couldn't stand him btw, when I was a teenager. I bitched constantly about him to my dad. Now I have seen the big picture, and have seen him adjust and get better at his job. I also can appreciate whatever a successful coach does. If that's 100% man, so be it. If it was a defense no ones seen before and it works, I'm with it. I like when my teams win, period.

 

[tbonezone]

having faith is a wonderful thing.

 

[DoctorBombay]

having faith is a wonderful thing.

Fortunately with JB, its faith WITH evidence, ie; 1000 wins, that makes the case.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Did you see a bunch of lobs for dunks? I didn't.

Did you see a bunch of dribble drives that created havoc against the zone? I didn't.

Did you see elite college athletes on Virginia? I certainly didn't.

I saw a slow-footed point guard, a big named Salt who couldn't jump, and two freshmen that looked like good shooters, but physically unable to drive the ball.

Sorry to bust your pre-determined narrative with concrete examples, though.

Gee, what were those Va nimrods ranked before the SU game? 9th in the country? Guess the voters were nimrods too.

So glad there are no nimrods on this board.

 

[NYCSUGrad]

You have been doing the wrong job all of your life. Coaching must be easy and it must be easy to make a million a year doing it.

He was being facetious I think

 

[NYCSUGrad]

Why start the thread if not to provoke those that you clearly aimed this thread at?

To see if any nimrods post here?

 

[tbonezone]

again your hard evidence how many zone only title teams ? or are we dancing in circles here ?
1000 wins are indeed legendary. but are the season winning % growing or shrinking last few years ? and don't tell me the ACC is tougher than the BE.
finally beating virginia makes us better ? is st. johns better than us ? man it's one game.

 

[br801]

again your evidence of how many zone only titles ? are we dancing in circles here ?
1000 wins are legendary. but is the season winning % growing or shrinking last few years ?

JB's regular season winning percentage has dropped off in recent seasons, while the post season winning percentage has certainly been on the rise. I'm okay with that.

 

[TCuse99]

Some of the posts in this thread are silly. Jim IMO did a really poor job managing the roster for the first half of the year. Yes, there were some internal things going on but that's part of life.

The criticism he received was more than warranted.

Also, we are still far from a sure thing to make the tourney and this talent is certainly worthy of being in.

 

[ssbriefcase]

^^^I was wondering what was taking so long

 

[dasher]

again your hard evidence how many zone only title teams ? or are we dancing in circles here ?
1000 wins are indeed legendary. but are the season winning % growing or shrinking last few years ? and don't tell me the ACC is tougher than the BE.
finally beating virginia makes us better ? is st. johns better than us ? man it's one game.

LOL in fact it is four straight wins and two against top 10 teams. And the winning % of the Big East?? That was the best in the history of that league by a wide margin. That just shows how great the guy has been. It would be next to impossible to keep that % forever.

 

[pearl31]

Some of the posts in this thread are silly. Jim IMO did a really poor job managing the roster for the first half of the year. Yes, there were some internal things going on but that's part of life.

The criticism he received was more than warranted.

Also, we are still far from a sure thing to make the tourney and this talent is certainly worthy of being in.

Jim

 

[orangehomer]

LOL in fact it is four straight wins and two against top 10 teams. And the winning % of the Big East?? That was the best in the history of that league by a wide margin. That just shows how great the guy has been. It would be next to impossible to keep that % forever.

St. johns, Yukon, Georgetown, villanova say hi

 

[Eagles20]

And this is all because Virginia isn't athletic. Got it.
Wilkins and Diakate weren't/aren't decent bigs, huh?
(don't ask me why Bennett didn't play Diakate more in the 2nd half)

Our defense has mostly been terrible this year, as evidenced with our 100+ KP defensive ranking. It's been completely ineffective against the "unathletic" UVA teams until yesterday's 2nd half (it took a trunkmonkey and a sizzling Malachi in the tourney last year). But it was very, very good in the 2nd half yesterday against one of the more efficient offenses in the country. Why not just acknowledge that, especially in the immediate aftermath of such a hard-earned win?

To be fair, I never said Virginia was unathletic. I said I can see the point he was making and his reasoning. I'm fine with people debating points of opinion rationally. I said their bigs were ineffective. Had opportunities throughout the game to make plays in good scoring position and came up empty. They were very unimpressive to me and I gave credit to Syracuse's (especially lydon) defense as well. I think Virginia is very well coached team. Have heady and talented players. I don't think their big guys did a good job yesterday and because of that they really couldn't utilize the offensive player on the baseline. I thought they would have played shayok more against the zone in the middle, I could be wrong but don't remember him in their too much.

 

[orangehomer]

st johns hasn't won a title, but Georgetown has won one, villanova has won 2 and Yukon has won 4. just stop it with the idea that we owned the big east in some way.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I think it is fair to ponder if he has been mailing it in with recruiting the past few years. Francis and others have documented our struggles even pre-sanctions with pieces not fitting, recruiting misses, and such. If Final 4s really matter to recruits why aren't players lining up in droves to come here. It's fair to argue that we generally have had very mediocre bodies of work as a whole the past 3-4 years. The zone is the reason we got to F4s. Not the offense for sure. That's great. Very few, if any, ELITE recruits want to play zone 100%! That's pretty telling I think if a program gets to a F4s based on a style of D yet it is the one of the big reasons and deterrents for a program not getting the top recruits. It's fair to ponder, in terms of the game passing JB by, why he won't ever try other defenses. I personally thought last year was the best coaching job I have ever seen from JB. If we make the Tourney then it will even trump last year which would be truly incredible. But, personally, I want the Hopkins era to start ASAP and I'm not any less of a fan than you, sir.

This post annoyed me for several reasons:
1. Pondering whether a coach has "mailed it in" is extremely insulting. Like JB is not trying. Francis has disagreed with the range of our recruiting and some individual choices but has never said JB has mailed it in.
2. Saying "very few, if any, ELITE recruits want to play the zone 100%" is your bs interpretation. We just got Battle. To claim the zone is a big deterrent is total conjecture. You just don't like the zone and project that onto recruiting. When our recruiting was at its peak we were 100% zone.

It looks like JB and team, in light of sanctions, has adopted a somewhat risky calculated strategy of trying for a slightly higher level recruit or falling back to a grad . I was excited about the talent we had coming into this season.

You don't like the zone and you want JB out and you thought it was fair to ponder whether he has "mailed it in". It seems like you are one of the targets of the OP,

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

zone is 1 for 40. (not even really) m2m is 39 of 40. what's the definition of success exactly ?


(edit: i say not really cuz boeheim used to know how to mix defenses to his advantage. )

This is a dumb argument. Nobody else plays 100% zone. I'd define success as 3 title games, 1000 wins, 1 title, 5 final fours, several conference titles and several conference tournament titles. There are only a handful of teams that have been better the 40 years, and 4 of them are blue bloods that get much better talent.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

st johns hasn't won a title, but Georgetown has won one, villanova has won 2 and Yukon has won 4. just stop it with the idea that we owned the big east in some way.

Georgetown, St. John's and Uconn. All once great programs, are now in trouble and may be looking for new coaches soon. I guess the fact that Boeheim is still playing in FF's is quite a testament to his greatness.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

"it should never be a question of either/or for a well coached team. both are viable."

that was my post above. and you clearly object. my assumption therefore naturally is that you are pro zone 100 % of the time . are you for real or just undecided as to your true opinions ?

Zone 100% of the time took us to 2 Final Fours in the last 4 years. Kansas is 0-4 playing man to man. So is Virginia. Two pretty good defensive teams that made 0 final fours in that span.

 

[realorange]

The zone has done far more good than bad for Syracuse.

As to the argument that other teams use M2M and that's how it should be is foolish. One of the main reasons more teams don't use the zone as played by Syracuse is that they don't know how to teach it.

 

[dasher]

St. johns, Yukon, Georgetown, villanova say hi

huh? Syracuse had by far the best winning record ever. It wasn't close, my friend. I posted the totals a few years ago.

 

[iommi]

The zone has done far more good than bad for Syracuse.

As to the argument that other teams use M2M and that's how it should be is foolish. One of the main reasons more teams don't use the zone as played by Syracuse is that they don't know how to teach it.

I agree with the balance of your post. My concern is can our current staff teach M2M?