Brycen Goodine Transferring to Providence

[Ghost]

You looked at JG3 stats right? He wasn't lighting the world on fire against Oklahoma State, Penn State, Iowa. He actually got PT to develop.
He got more PT in the Oklahoma State game than Bryce Goodine got in all 3 of those games combined.
It's not like Girard lit it up either. He wasn't good defensively and was just okay offensively.

Goodine did not get the chance Girard got. Goodine was the higher rated recruit as well.

I'm not quite sure how this is relevant. JGIII definitely seemed the best equipped to get immediate time at PG once the JC Experiment Part II ended. That was a completely understandable decision by JB IMO.

We needed a steadying influence there. JGIII provided that, and a bit more offensive firepower. Additionally, the drop off athletically between he and HoWa is negligible at best. His hands were a bit tied.
I think HoWa could have been integrated a tad bit more, and nobody could be worse defensively than JGIII, so we do get some trade-off advantages, but I didn't see it as all that substantial other than for giving JGIII a breather here or there.

I'm not sure Goodine was even in the PG equation early on, but could likely have taken a few minutes. Still, much like JC, I wouldn't have wanted him there as it's a lot to take on as your developing....JGIII is a bit more of a finished product offensively so, you gotta roll with him.

As to shooting guard...I won't comment. I don't think JB has a flipping clue what he's doing with that position other than he seems to find it to be rather unimportant - perhaps even less so than having a Center.

 

[Alsacs]

He got the chance every day in practice. Girard was better. Not arguing that he should have seen him more at the expense of both starting guards but saying he didn’t get the same chance to impress is just plain stupid. Why can’t you all see that?

I think JB went for offense over defense this year. When we could have had both. We could have had an offensive lineup and a defensive lineup.
However he doesn't want to experiment. He plays the starters as many minutes as he can and then makes changes when he is forced to.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I liked Goodine.

JB saw these guys play nearly every day for 7 months. Based on seeing that, he gave Joe 35+ minutes. Clearly JB thought Joe was a better option this year.

I agree JB didn’t play the back ups enough. But the amount of people who think Goodine is a better player than JG based on seeing him for 50 minutes in the past 10 games is ridiculous. HoWash got more PT than Goodine lately too. Sure, Goodine could be better eventually but JB has seen Goodine play more than all of us

He never got an even chance. That’s the issue. He was never part of a regular rotation. Because “rotation” is Apparently a dirty word to our HC.
And playing two marginal guards, especially defensively, was more important than developing Talent for the future. It sucks, IMO.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, he didn't play for almost the entire year. And then when Buddy went down with the sprained ankle, we saw, "oh, he CAN play"!
He was spotty early in the year, but he got the chance to make literally one mistake and then he came out, every game before that he played.

I think what you’re saying is true for ACC play. He got decent run in quite a few early season games and did nothing. He did nothing to earn a role early on - he made no shots, wasn’t much of a ball handler, and just didn’t accomplish much out there.

He seemed to get more comfortable as the year went on. I don’t blame JB for not playing him much after the early games...but I do think Goodine did enough to earn a bigger role later in the year.

Ultimately I’m not sure it matters. As Dasher pointed out...kid probably wants to be a starter at some point and that’s very unlikely to happen here. And frankly I’m not sure it should happen here. Joe was an erratic shooter, but he was pretty steady as a ball handler/passer and showed a solid floor game for the most part. Seems like a guy who will be very hard to unseat, especially by a guy who is really not a PG at this point.

 

[Alsacs]

You’re picking and choosing what to focus on.

Girard had 24 points on 7-8 shooting in the third game of the year - which cemented his role for all those other games you mentioned.

And he was like...actually a PG.

Im fully on board with the “Buddy and Girard don’t need to play 40” and “Goodine couldve played more”, but cmon. Joe clearly was the best option as the starting PG and it wasn’t close.

I don't think Girard is a PG. He is a SG but because we have Buddy there and not at SF he has to PG. Our backcourt is just brutal defensively. I think Girard will be a good 4 year player but he isn't a PG.

 

[Alsacs]

I think what you’re saying is true for ACC play. He got decent run in quite a few early season games and did nothing. He did nothing to earn a role early on - he made no shots, wasn’t much of a ball handler, and just didn’t accomplish much out there.

He seemed to get more comfortable as the year went on. I don’t blame JB for not playing him much after the early games...but I do think Goodine did enough to earn a bigger role later in the year.

Ultimately I’m not sure it matters. As Dasher pointed out...kid probably wants to be a starter at some point and that’s very unlikely to happen here. And frankly I’m not sure it should happen here. Joe was an erratic shooter, but he was pretty steady as a ball handler/passer and showed a solid floor game for the most part. Seems like a guy who will be very hard to unseat, especially by a guy who is really not a PG at this point.

I think losing these kids hurts our recruiting. This kid was a 4 star recruit around top 100 prospect and barely got any PT. It is frustrating losing this kid because he didn't come as a true freshman as a finished product.
Our kids who are finished products typically leave early for the pros because they have nothing else to prove in college.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't think Girard is a PG. He is a SG but because we have Buddy there and not at SF he has to PG. Our backcourt is just brutal defensively. I think Girard will be a good 4 year player but he isn't a PG.

Why not?

He has a good handle. He had very little trouble bringing the ball up under pressure. He recognizes trouble and gives the ball up before it happens. He knows the game and knows how to break a press. He plays with his head up and looks up the court in fast break situations. He generally moves the ball well, and can play in pick and roll with his ability to shoot and see the court. His ability to drive and penetrate gradually improved a bit as the year went on. And he’s a great FT shooter which helps if you’re protecting a lead.

Only issue related to “not a PG” I saw was his tendency to get overconfident in his shot and pull up and launch. He’s gotta grow up in that area. But I see that as fixable. For example, Scoop got a lot smarter about hoisting wild shots. I actually see quite a bit of Scoop in Joe.

 

[Gotothehole]

If Buddy had gone to the Zags. This program would be in a better place. This program was built on defense..

 

[AZOrange]

Besides BJ, I can't think of anyone who became quite good leaving SU recently over playing time. I do think a better allocation of minutes would benefit the team, but can't remember a long list of folks we wished had stayed.

Truth

 

[Alsacs]

Why not?

He has a good handle. He had very little trouble bringing the ball up under pressure. He recognizes trouble and gives the ball up before it happens. He knows the game and knows how to break a press. He plays with his head up and looks up the court in fast break situations. He generally moves the ball well, and can play in pick and roll with his ability to shoot and see the court. His ability to drive and penetrate gradually improved a bit as the year went on. And he’s a great FT shooter which helps if you’re protecting a lead.

Only issue related to “not a PG” I saw was his tendency to get overconfident in his shot and pull up and launch. He’s gotta grow up in that area. But I see that as fixable. For example, Scoop got a lot smarter about hoisting wild shots. I actually see quite a bit of Scoop in Joe.

Do you consider Eric Devendorf a PG? That is what I envision for Girard. We have a natural PG on the floor and then Girard is the SG who can be a playmaker and score but isn't the primary ball handler.

 

[OrangeDW]

Do you consider Eric Devendorf a PG? That is what I envision for Girard. We have a natural PG on the floor and then Girard is the SG who can be a playmaker and score but isn't the primary ball handler.

No. But I don’t see Joe as the same player as Eric. Joe has a better handle when pressured and in most situations sees the court better.

 

[AZOrange]

Carey and Braswell next?

I don’t do the player reveals but good guess.

 

[tbonezone]

buddy gonna help bring the ball up court next year for a change ? or just trot to the arc again and save energy ?

 

[Ghost]

I think what you’re saying is true for ACC play. He got decent run in quite a few early season games and did nothing. He did nothing to earn a role early on - he made no shots, wasn’t much of a ball handler, and just didn’t accomplish much out there.

I feel like that was the debate with Jerami Grant too - his Freshman year. Could he play more minutes? Nope. He wasn't getting minutes against good teams, all he can do is dunk, raw, wasn't ready. Then, Fair got hurt, and it was like, "ohhhh, maybe he can contribute against good teams." So, I do think sometimes that "nothing" isn't an accurate representation of skills.

It was the same with BJ Johnson. He can do a lot - but he just can't hit shots yet! Except any game he played long enough to hoist a few threes, his percentage on threes skyrocketed...because, I'd guess, being on the court after you miss your first shot matters.

Goodine suddenly looks less clueless when taking over for an injured Buddy...

I tend to think there are reasons why these under-performing kids seem to do better when some injury suddenly thrusts them into situations where they have to play 20+ minutes.

I don't know.

 

[AZOrange]

No. But I don’t see Joe as the same player as Eric. Joe has a better handle when pressured and in most situations sees the court better.

Joe will be a good one if he has good guys around him.

 

[Ghost]

I actually see quite a bit of Scoop in Joe.

For serious?

 

[Alsacs]

No. But I don’t see Joe as the same player as Eric. Joe has a better handle when pressured and in most situations sees the court better.

We disagree on this one then. I think Girard is a little smarter with the ball than Eric was but I see them in that same vein. I really hope Girard isn't the primary ball handler for the team the next 3 years.
He is definitely a closer from the FT line and I like him as a player but not a playmaking PG.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Why not?

He has a good handle. He had very little trouble bringing the ball up under pressure. He recognizes trouble and gives the ball up before it happens. He knows the game and knows how to break a press. He plays with his head up and looks up the court in fast break situations. He generally moves the ball well, and can play in pick and roll with his ability to shoot and see the court. His ability to drive and penetrate gradually improved a bit as the year went on. And he’s a great FT shooter which helps if you’re protecting a lead.

Only issue related to “not a PG” I saw was his tendency to get overconfident in his shot and pull up and launch. He’s gotta grow up in that area. But I see that as fixable. For example, Scoop got a lot smarter about hoisting wild shots. I actually see quite a bit of Scoop in Joe.

Agreed
I absolutely LOVE JG as our PG, now and in the future. But that shouldn’t preclude any other players being given a opportunity to develop & thrive.
Honestly, as much as i love JB, and I’ll probably regret saying this, but I’m ready to see change at SU. Maybe not right away- but it’s definitely time, IMO.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think what you’re saying is true for ACC play. He got decent run in quite a few early season games and did nothing. He did nothing to earn a role early on - he made no shots, wasn’t much of a ball handler, and just didn’t accomplish much out there.

He seemed to get more comfortable as the year went on. I don’t blame JB for not playing him much after the early games...but I do think Goodine did enough to earn a bigger role later in the year.

Ultimately I’m not sure it matters. As Dasher pointed out...kid probably wants to be a starter at some point and that’s very unlikely to happen here. And frankly I’m not sure it should happen here. Joe was an erratic shooter, but he was pretty steady as a ball handler/passer and showed a solid floor game for the most part. Seems like a guy who will be very hard to unseat, especially by a guy who is really not a PG at this point.

Yeah, I agree. I was going to post that in some of the early games, he and Girard seemed to share the ball handling together while Buddy went out. I thought they played well together and we would have seen more of that, but then the "1 mistake rule" seemed to go into effect. Buddy was great until about January, but then he and Girard wore out and shot poorly for the rest of the year.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think people are fooling themselves if they think playing this kid 10 minutes a game would have got him to stay. He sees what is in front of him. He was never going to be a starter here. Play him 15 minutes. He still leaves.

Sigh.

My favorite part about Goodine leaving is that we're going to enjoy the cycle again next year where limited players are playing ridiculous minutes, and we "can't" take them out of the game because we've got "nothing" behind them.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[W'boro'Cuse315]

 

[OrangeDW]

For serious?

Yes. Scoop was erratic as a freshman. He sat a year and then was great off the bench as a 3rd year Soph. And while he played his share of PG, he either had Triche or Rautins to share it with - so his role was basically to be a spark plug off the bench and he was quite good at it.

Junior year, it was much more his show to run as the starting PG...and he was pretty erratic in terms of shot selection IMO.

His senior year (5th year) he was a steady hand who could run the show and hit big shots when needed and he had a great year.

I think Joe would thrive as a spark plug 3rd guard at this point...and I think he’ll be quite good as a veteran guard. He’s smaller than Scoop and probably won’t ever have that pull up and pop from 15 game, but he’s a better overall shooter IMO. Neither were especially explosive, but both have/had solid handles and can get where they want to go.

IMO both are/were actually pretty savvy ballplayers with a lot of moxie(yes I used savvy AND moxie in the same sentence - don’t @ me), but sometimes can’t help themselves and decide to play hero ball. Scoop curbed that his senior year, I think Joe will curb it too.

Should be noted that Scoop possibly had the most talented post 1990 SU team that we’ve had to play with. He was a part of that talent. I think a veteran Joe would be great with guys like Fair, MCW, Dion, Joseph, Melo, Christmas, Southerland, and Triche to help him out too.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think people are fooling themselves if they think playing this kid 10 minutes a game would have got him to stay. He sees what is in front of him. He was never going to be a starter here. Play him 15 minutes. He still leaves.

Let's be honest. This will be a much better team next year if Joe and Buddy play 30 minutes and Richmond plays 20. Each player will be more efficient and effective. If JB doesn't do that next year, then we should just wait it out until we get an actual coach in there again. I think it said a lot that Goodine can see Carey leaving too, and still puts his name in the portal the minute the game with UNC was over. Ouch.

 

[OrangeDW]

We disagree on this one then. I think Girard is a little smarter with the ball than Eric was but I see them in that same vein. I really hope Girard isn't the primary ball handler for the team the next 3 years.
He is definitely a closer from the FT line and I like him as a player but not a playmaking PG.

I think Eric had a great handle in terms of being able to shake guys off the dribble to get to the basket. Better than Joe there. He’s still got it too.

But in terms of handling the ball for a long time far away from the hoop with somebody right on him - he could be a little shaky in those situations even as a veteran. And he would also get wild and turn it over too much trying to force things that weren’t there.

Joe is already better in both of those areas and beyond the occasional wild deep pullup 3’s, I think he mostly plays like a PG and has a good understanding of how to run an offense. He’s more GMac than Eric IMO. Like GMac, he’d probably shoot better and be more efficient there as a 2 guard next to a good PG. But he’s also a solid PG himself.

 

[OrangeDW]

Sigh.

My favorite part about Goodine leaving is that we're going to enjoy the cycle again next year where limited players are playing ridiculous minutes, and we "can't" take them out of the game because we've got "nothing" behind them.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

That is a fair concern to be sure.