Coach for 50 years

[Eric15]

Why aren’t all nba arenas in cold weather climates selling out then?

For whatever it's worth, almost every team in the league is over 90% full. And over half are 95% full. And thanks to Luka people appear to be sneaking into Mavs games.

 

[007]

There are just so many signs that this is it. No recruits, ring of honor ceremony, no desire for a victory lap…

Everything but...JB's psyche

 

[Orangezoo]

As for attendance so far this year we are averaging 17k so far this year per cuse.com. if that holds it would be the lowest average i could find ( not counting the zero in 20-21) as well as one of the biggest year to year drops ever. We had 26k in 2012 which stood out given that great year but otherwise 21-23. Below 20 is a gut punch if it stays there and not a good sign.

 

[MSOrange]

As for attendance so far this year we are averaging 17k so far this year per cuse.com. if that holds it would be the lowest average i could find ( not counting the zero in 20-21) as well as one of the biggest year to year drops ever. We had 26k in 2012 which stood out given that great year but otherwise 21-23. Below 20 is a gut punch if it stays there and not a good sign.

And I think it's fair to see that number is tickets sold, based on what I can see on tv. SU still gets the money whether people show up or not, but I think it's fair to say that often the next step after not using your tickets is not buying them in the first place.

 

[Cuse181]

Actual bodies is seats has declined remarkedly...despite saying there are 23K fans etc...

The few big event games as the exception

I didn’t go to games in the 90s so I cannot comment on whether or not those crowds were closer to butts in seats numbers (nostalgia can also play a factor in that as the memories from the Georgetown games are probably more vivid than the Colgate games), but I would say that the combination of increasing ticket prices, HD TV and a considerably higher # of 9pm mid week games all factor in at this point and yet the number of tickets sold still matches the early 00s (edit late 90s was 23-24k)? That doesn’t strike me as a fan base that’s running for the hills. I mean, why was there a 9k decline between the 80s and the 90s? Shouldn’t that be another main topic of discussion? What caused all of those hardcore fans to run off?

Also important to note that if Syracuse had a regular sized stadium, 15-20k would be all it takes to fill up the place versus the 26K you need today to make the dome look filled.

 

[DCUNITED13]

Have you been to a NBA game. Outside of the Celtics/Bucks the noise is made up Piped in sounds and announcers yelling to generate noise. Even a mediocre SU game had more fan involvement than 93% of the NBA.

As regard to a better product... How are the Wizards getting 87% of capacity. Give me a game at the DOME anytime even with 20K.

 

[rrlbees]

As for attendance so far this year we are averaging 17k so far this year per cuse.com. if that holds it would be the lowest average i could find ( not counting the zero in 20-21) as well as one of the biggest year to year drops ever. We had 26k in 2012 which stood out given that great year but otherwise 21-23. Below 20 is a gut punch if it stays there and not a good sign.

17k would have been 6th in the country last year.

 

[Orangezoo]

17k would have been 6th in the country last year.

It's also basically 50 pct capacity as well. Should we have a facility that only sits 25k then? Not being obtuse just saying that factoring costs and revenue pct capacity matters a lot. 17k isn't a number you look at on the aggregate for us and think that's a good number..

Not to mention 17k in such a large building looks pedestrian for a recruit you sell on playing in a packed house...

The other question becomes and this is what I was getting at- in two years if we still fail to make a tourney and struggle around .500 is that 17k now 14k etc..

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Meanwhile, we're losing our chance...

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article270962352.html

 

[UpstateSM]

Meanwhile, we're losing our chance...

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article270962352.html

I am happy to once again lock arms with you on something that will never happen

 

[Orangezoo]

Meanwhile, we're losing our chance...

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article270962352.html

UK fans would be happy on that one. Guessing if it ever somehow happened they try hard for Brad Stevens, Jay Wright or honestly anyone crushing it that isn't coaching another blue blood

 

[Cuse181]

It's also basically 50 pct capacity as well. Should we have a facility that only sits 25k then? Not being obtuse just saying that factoring costs and revenue pct capacity matters a lot. 17k isn't a number you look at on the aggregate for us and think that's a good number..

Not to mention 17k in such a large building looks pedestrian for a recruit you sell on playing in a packed house...

The other question becomes and this is what I was getting at- in two years if we still fail to make a tourney and struggle around .500 is that 17k now 14k etc..

You’re conflating two different issues (I think):

1) declining attendance
2) good looking attendance

Outside of the 26K+ crowds, the dome doesn’t really look good in terms of being “full.” And Syracuse has consistently gotten bumps in attendance via big games against the Dukes, GTs and Novas of the world because they can hold those fans, even if the experience for those in nose bleeds is, at best, pedestrian. Personally, I would love a KFC yum! center type court, I think it would be a much more enjoyable experience for the fans and the players (and recruits). Let’s say 17k is the base number for the foreseeable future, like bees said, that’s 6th in the country and fills up 90% of the stadiums in the country on average. That’s a workable number of total seats and desirable for nearly all programs and gives fans a way better experience.

 

[Orangezoo]

You’re conflating two different issues (I think):

1) declining attendance
2) good looking attendance

Outside of the 26K+ crowds, the dome doesn’t really look good in terms of being “full.” And Syracuse has consistently gotten bumps in attendance via big games against the Dukes, GTs and Novas of the world because they can hold those fans, even if the experience for those in nose bleeds is, at best, pedestrian. Personally, I would love a KFC yum! center type court, I think it would be a much more enjoyable experience for the fans and the players (and recruits). Let’s say 17k is the base number for the foreseeable future, like bees said, that’s 6th in the country and fills up 90% of the stadiums in the country on average. That’s workable and desirable for nearly all programs and gives fans a way better experience.

So I'm actually not conflating them as they are inter related.

If you are business that has 8000 physical offices and you fill 4000 seats because your business isn't doing as well you have a higher cost per unused seat as well as you have potential employees walking in and seeing a half empty building wondering what is up. Then say the next year it's 3700 seats.

Being ranked 6th is great and all but - it's the relative number and capacity that matters. If we have a smaller venue which I like the Yum Center too to use your example, then we still have to figure out cost to fill that based on our expenses as a program.

So it's all inter related. Just like in business performance, revenue and reputation work hand in hand when it comes to current and future success. A half empty dome means less revenue, higher cost per seat along with what looks like a weak crowd. Tell everyone it's 17k and 6th in the country and they shrug their shoulders along with an attaboy.

In my example- change would be warranted to continue on be it a change in terms of a smaller business ( less expectations is the analogy to hoops) or an aggressive effort to ramp things back up to filling 6500 to 7k of those offices.. i.e. back to being a ranked program most years and a contender every few years.

 

[Bill Orange]

You’re conflating two different issues (I think):

1) declining attendance
2) good looking attendance

Outside of the 26K+ crowds, the dome doesn’t really look good in terms of being “full.” And Syracuse has consistently gotten bumps in attendance via big games against the Dukes, GTs and Novas of the world because they can hold those fans, even if the experience for those in nose bleeds is, at best, pedestrian. Personally, I would love a KFC yum! center type court, I think it would be a much more enjoyable experience for the fans and the players (and recruits). Let’s say 17k is the base number for the foreseeable future, like bees said, that’s 6th in the country and fills up 90% of the stadiums in the country on average. That’s a workable number of total seats and desirable for nearly all programs and gives fans a way better experience.

Agree with your KFC Yum! comment. I was at JPJ for our game last Saturday and it would be an ideal size as well. Easy access in and out, wide concourses, etc.

 

[Orangezoo]

Agree with your KFC Yum! comment. I was at JPJ for our game last Saturday and it would be an ideal size as well. Easy access in and out, wide concourses, etc.

Yeah JPJ is really nice too.

 

[Grbac]

Meanwhile, we're losing our chance...

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article270962352.html

Goes to show you recruiting isn’t everything. You still have to be able to coach. Cal is just as stubborn as JB as far as making adjustments. And not even close to as good of a coach as JB.
You really need a good mixture of both.
It really hurt Cal when he lost Kenny Payne his bread and butter assistant much like when we lost Hop.

 

[Orangezoo]

Goes to show you recruiting isn’t everything. You still have to be able to coach. Cal is just as stubborn as JB as far as making adjustments. And not even close to as good of a coach as JB.
You really need a good mixture of both.
It really hurt Cal when he lost Kenny Payne his bread and butter assistant much like when we lost Hop.

Interesting also how both Hop and Payne have had such a struggle running their own programs... granted Hop has good years in that mix.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I am happy to once again lock arms with you on something that will never happen

I think we can get more good years out of Calipari than Pitino. I almost want it to happen just to see the self-righteous fans that would act like SU as an institution is too good for Cal while remaining in denial about the nature of college athletics.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

Goes to show you recruiting isn’t everything. You still have to be able to coach. Cal is just as stubborn as JB as far as making adjustments. And not even close to as good of a coach as JB.
You really need a good mixture of both.
It really hurt Cal when he lost Kenny Payne his bread and butter assistant much like when we lost Hop.

I think a big flaw in Cal's approach has been the huge lack of consistency in the program due to so many rapid departures. I haven't followed them closely this year so I'm not sure if that's the case with this year's squad, but I know they have another top class on the way for next year. Supplement our team's nucleus with a few of those recruits next year and I think Cuse would be in for an exciting season.

And as you said, coaching matters and Cal is probably average at best in-game.

 

[Grbac]

Interesting also how both Hop and Payne have had such a struggle running their own programs... granted Hop has good years in that mix.

That’s true. Some guys may be meant to be assistants. Like some guys are better coordinators than head coaches in football.
But to be fair Hop has had to start a completely new recruiting pipeline in Washington and maybe he’ll get it together maybe he just needs to be in Syracuse. Payne is having an absolute disaster of a year but it’s only year one. Let’s see what he can do next year now that he has a base of players.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

17k would have been 6th in the country last year.

That sounds good, but it's pretty bad taken in context. That's a sharp decline. Hopefully the ACC games can push things up a bit.

 

[Orangezoo]

That’s true. Some guys may be meant to be assistants. Like some guys are better coordinators than head coaches in football.
But to be fair Hop has had to start a completely new recruiting pipeline in Washington and maybe he’ll get it together maybe he just needs to be in Syracuse. Payne is having an absolute disaster of a year but it’s only year one. Let’s see what he can do next year now that he has a base of players.

Yeah Payne has quite a bit of talent on this team too. Given Calipari and his in game mediocrity, Payne hasn't had a very good mentor..

Below is an article on the Calipari coaching tree.. not exactly something to write home about and doesn't bode well for Paynes success given the track records.

Best Coaches on John Calipari’s Coaching Tree

Best Coaches on John Calipari’s Coaching Tree

thesportsdrop.com

 

[two3zone]

Turn in your fan card now ;-)

Two of those natty were jokes though...but you have a point.

Cuse has the longevity and history and UConn had a great run over a relatively short period.

Their fanbase is still in need of an enema.

I wish we had two joke national championships

 

[Grbac]

I think a big flaw in Cal's approach has been the huge lack of consistency in the program due to so many rapid departures. I haven't followed them closely this year so I'm not sure if that's the case with this year's squad, but I know they have another top class on the way for next year. Supplement our team's nucleus with a few of those recruits next year and I think Cuse would be in for an exciting season.

And as you said, coaching matters and Cal is probably average at best in-game.

Cal is definitely not an average in game coach. He is very poor. I live in Kentucky and have to deal with them too much. He has no clue what he’s doing and most UK fans will even tell you that. He recruits the best, throws them together, and hopes for a great outcome. Notice how most UK players flourish in the NBA compared to how they played at UK. They are very talented with zero direction.
The amount of one and dones are his own doing. He has said it’s more important to him to get his players paid in the NBA than to win.
The great recruits would be fun for a while but we would all get tired of the same old poor coaching and no adjustments like we have now.

 

[Otto'd]

Meanwhile, we're losing our chance...

https://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/kentucky-sports/uk-basketball-men/article270962352.html

We don’t want calipari. His model is done. Cheating is legal now. ( like weed) . He’s a terrible basketball coach.