Does Tyus leave... | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

Does Tyus leave...

How much better would we be? We are playing a bunch of freshmen you said were not any good because they weren't ranked in the Top 100.

Also, when did the draft happen?

Stop, I never said it wasn't any good. You're stretching.

Even if I did say that, the freshman class really hasn't done much at this point.

You dig deeper and deeper and deeper. You're about 20 times more clueless than I originally thought before this topic.
 
This thread is off the rails. Getting drafted is about potential more than production.

Some of the most productive college players don't get drafted and vice versa.

Trying to draw a correlation between Tyus's numbers and his draftability is probably not wise.

He's playing in the most stagnet offense in the program's history -- of course his numbers are going to suck. Everyone's numbers suck because the team lacks depth, shooting and a post up option.

The job of scouts is to project his value on a team that has, frankly, better players on it.

The biggest issue Tyus will face will be his ability to shoot consistently at the post season camps. He projects as a combo guard, but he'll need to tighten up that stroke. No one is going to draft him as a point or 3.

As far as "does he want to leave?". Watching a teammate's knee explode probably removed any lingering doubts He had about leaving. Too much risk.

Personally I think he has a much greater chance at getting guaranteed money if he returns...but I'm not him and only he can weigh the pros and cons.
 
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This happens every year. Cuse fans talk crap about their best players (20 year old college kids) and pray they don't get drafted (make 6 or 7 figures rather than play for free, often born in poor neighborhoods). Anybody else see the extreme selfishness of this? Do we still have a tourney team pretty much every year despite losing kids?

Most of these kids are recruited from other states. Why should they have loyalty to a college that is using them for ticket sales, TV revenue, and merch without paying them a dime? Why not come out early, get drafted in the 2nd round, make 6 figures, get cut, and make 6 figures in Europe for a decade? Or would they rather risk tearing an ACL while coming back to Cuse for a year to play for free for fans that will turn on them in a heartbeat if they go through a funk? Get lost.

Considering I've thought every other player who's left should've makes your broad comment look stupid.
 
This thread is off the rails. Getting drafted is about potential more than production.

Some of the most productive colleges don't get drafted and vice versa.

Trying to draw a correlation between Tyus's numbers and his draftability is probably not wise.

He's playing in the most stagnet offense in the program's history -- of course his numbers are going to suck. Everyone's numbers suck because the team lacks depth, shooting and a post up option.

The job of scouts is to project his value on a team that has, frankly, better players on it.

The biggest issue Tyus will face will be his ability to shoot consistently at the post season camps. He projects as a combo guard, but he'll need to tighten up that stroke. No one is going to draft him as a point or 3.

As far as "does he want to leave?". Watching a teammate's knee explode probably removed any lingering doubts He had about leaving. Too much risk.

Personally I think he has a much greater chance at getting guaranteed money if he returns...but I'm not him and only he can weigh the pros and cons.

Tyus is absolutely not a combo guard at the next level. He's strictly a 2 mixed in with a little 3. Nothing about his game says point guard.
 
Lotta apples to oranges comparisons. With his role on this team and being the focus of the defense, it's going to hurt his efficiency. JB isn't asking him to get assists, he needs him to score. He's shooting 56% from 2 in ACC play and those are tough shots. He is being asked to take inefficient shots at times because it's sadly a better option than the other guys. Oshae shoots 30% from 2 for Pete's sake.

He's not a great 3pt shooter but those stats can fluctuate with a couple good or bad games. Frank is shooting 43% in ACC play. Is he a great shooter? Or just shooting great right now? Battle will have to improve to stick in the NBA. Is that not possible?

I think the combine will suit his skill set. No doubles. No scouting. And maybe he will get to show that he can be a solid one on one defender.
 
Trying to draw a correlation between Tyus's numbers and his draftability is probably not wise.

He's playing in the most stagnet offense in the program's history -- of course his numbers are going to suck. Everyone's numbers suck because the team lacks depth, shooting and a post up option.
Player A: FG% 43.3% 3PA% 36.6% FT% 79.8% A40 2.2 R40 2.8
Player B: FG% 43.4% 3PA% 32.9% FT% 79.8% A40 1.6 R40 2.9
 
Stop, I never said it wasn't any good. You're stretching.

Even if I did say that, the freshman class really hasn't done much at this point.

You dig deeper and deeper and deeper. You're about 20 times more clueless than I originally thought before this topic.

Oh. You kept complaining about how we didnt get any Top 100 prospects. I'd say Oshae Brissett has been pretty good. I think Sidibe looks pretty good. I'd say Dolejaz contributes, wouldn't you? I'd say the freshmen class has done a lot. You're 50 more clueless than I and the board already knew. Just curious, but what record did you think we would have this season? NIT?
 
His PER is pretty pedestrian for a guy who is the center of the offense and one who has the liberty to take as many shots as he would like to. PER isn't the be all end all statistic and a poor one doesn't necessarily mean a poor draft rating or someone who can't get drafted, but it's much better to have a PER greater than 20 if the goal is to be drafted.

ETA: But whatever, if Tyus wants to go pro, go for it. I just don't think he'll get drafted in the 1st or early 2nd. My bet would be undrafted. If people are suggesting he's a 1st rounder, I'd like to see an argument for it.

I'll go ahead and make an argument for Tyus being a first round draft pick, because I think he's been fantastic this year, and this thread is absolute garbage.

There are maybe 10 or so college players with so much talent that they should be able contribute in the NBA. These guys will be the first 10 picks in the draft. After those 10, the odds are against every other player turning into someone who can consistently contribute at the NBA level, so essentially what GM's do is play the lottery and hope the guy they choose (who has 100-1 odds of making it big) hits.

Tyus is in a group of maybe 50 or 60 players who have a small chance to contribute in the NBA. When you are in this group the difference between being drafted at the tail end of the lottery and not being drafted at all is incredibly small, and little things can lead to huge jumps in draft stock. We've seen it before. The 6 OT game pushed Flynn from an undrafted player to the lottery. 10 amazing minutes against Virginia pushed Malachi from undrafted to the first round.

Battle will probably have the measurables that the NBA wants, and he's going to have plenty of chances to convince an NBA GM (it only takes one) that he's the player they should be taking a chance on. Would it surprise anybody if Tyus put up 30 against Virginia on Saturday, or against Duke? That might be all it takes.

My feeling is that its about 50-50 whether Battle is a first round draft pick or not, but going by who is on draft boards now is meaningless. Battle might not be the chosen one in this moment in time among the 50 or 60 players fighting for a first round pick, but the draft isn't right now, and Battle will have good measurables and more opportunity than many to impress.

As for his PER, I want to say that all stats are meaningless without context. Battle is the only player on that list who gets triple teamed as a normal strategy by opposing teams. There is a huge amount of defensive focus on him because we don't have many good options, and he is forced to shoot a lot anyway (again, because we don't have many good options). Nobody in college basketball right now is capable of being efficient under those circumstances, so you have to take PER, shooting percentage, and 3 point percentage with a huge grain of salt.

As for rebounds, our front line is doing a great job rebounding, so we are not overly reliant on our guards this year. I see 5 good rebounders on SU at most times, but only one guy can actually grab the board. More times than not that's Moyer, Brissett, Chukwu, or Dolezaj, and that shouldn't be held against Battle, those guys are suppose to do the bulk of the rebounding.

As for assists, ideally yes, Battle would be a better passer, but lets not forget that he's a sophomore getting his first experience being "the man." In situations where we have a primary scorer who doesn't have a lot of experience Boeheim often times encourages them to just focus on what they do best. Carmelo Anthony had the ball in his hands more than Battle does and averaged similar assists. Same with Dion Waiters. If Battle did come back, and still had relatively few assists as a junior, that would be a problem, I see it as less of a problem this year.

As for turnovers, yes we want Battle to make fewer turnovers than he does, but again he is facing a pretty much unprecedented level of defensive attention. A few extra turnovers are going to happen when the defense can get away with hounding one guy and our supporting cast has not made defenses pay nearly enough for choosing to hound Battle.

Bottom line, the most valuable skill a basketball player can have is being able to put the ball in the basket against a defense that is set up to stop you. Battle is the best we've had at this since Carmelo Anthony. He's had a great year. There are flaws in his game, certainly, but in the hundred plus year history of SU basketball, you can't name me a player who didn't have any obvious flaws (except maybe Derrick Coleman who was the #1 pick in the draft) the standards Battle is being held up to are unreasonably high at the moment.
 
Depends whether Tyus and his advisers are OK with being a 2nd round pick. Very unlikely he would be a first round selection. He has the athleticism but as a SG his 3 point % is lacking.
 
Tyus is absolutely not a combo guard at the next level. He's strictly a 2 mixed in with a little 3. Nothing about his game says point guard.
I agree he's predominately a 2...could see limited minutes at the 1 or 3. Shouldn't have used the term combo. He's just not a pure shooter...should have said a "scoring guard".
 
I'll go ahead and make an argument for Tyus being a first round draft pick, because I think he's been fantastic this year, and this thread is absolute garbage.

There are maybe 10 or so college players with so much talent that they should be able contribute in the NBA. These guys will be the first 10 picks in the draft. After those 10, the odds are against every other player turning into someone who can consistently contribute at the NBA level, so essentially what GM's do is play the lottery and hope the guy they choose (who has 100-1 odds of making it big) hits.

Tyus is in a group of maybe 50 or 60 players who have a small chance to contribute in the NBA. When you are in this group the difference between being drafted at the tail end of the lottery and not being drafted at all is incredibly small, and little things can lead to huge jumps in draft stock. We've seen it before. The 6 OT game pushed Flynn from an undrafted player to the lottery. 10 amazing minutes against Virginia pushed Malachi from undrafted to the first round.

Battle will probably have the measurables that the NBA wants, and he's going to have plenty of chances to convince an NBA GM (it only takes one) that he's the player they should be taking a chance on. Would it surprise anybody if Tyus put up 30 against Virginia on Saturday, or against Duke? That might be all it takes.

My feeling is that its about 50-50 whether Battle is a first round draft pick or not, but going by who is on draft boards now is meaningless. Battle might not be the chosen one in this moment in time among the 50 or 60 players fighting for a first round pick, but the draft isn't right now, and Battle will have good measurables and more opportunity than many to impress.

As for his PER, I want to say that all stats are meaningless without context. Battle is the only player on that list who gets triple teamed as a normal strategy by opposing teams. There is a huge amount of defensive focus on him because we don't have many good options, and he is forced to shoot a lot anyway (again, because we don't have many good options). Nobody in college basketball right now is capable of being efficient under those circumstances, so you have to take PER, shooting percentage, and 3 point percentage with a huge grain of salt.

As for rebounds, our front line is doing a great job rebounding, so we are not overly reliant on our guards this year. I see 5 good rebounders on SU at most times, but only one guy can actually grab the board. More times than not that's Moyer, Brissett, Chukwu, or Dolezaj, and that shouldn't be held against Battle, those guys are suppose to do the bulk of the rebounding.

As for assists, ideally yes, Battle would be a better passer, but lets not forget that he's a sophomore getting his first experience being "the man." In situations where we have a primary scorer who doesn't have a lot of experience Boeheim often times encourages them to just focus on what they do best. Carmelo Anthony had the ball in his hands more than Battle does and averaged similar assists. Same with Dion Waiters. If Battle did come back, and still had relatively few assists as a junior, that would be a problem, I see it as less of a problem this year.

As for turnovers, yes we want Battle to make fewer turnovers than he does, but again he is facing a pretty much unprecedented level of defensive attention. A few extra turnovers are going to happen when the defense can get away with hounding one guy and our supporting cast has not made defenses pay nearly enough for choosing to hound Battle.

Bottom line, the most valuable skill a basketball player can have is being able to put the ball in the basket against a defense that is set up to stop you. Battle is the best we've had at this since Carmelo Anthony. He's had a great year. There are flaws in his game, certainly, but in the hundred plus year history of SU basketball, you can't name me a player who didn't have any obvious flaws (except maybe Derrick Coleman who was the #1 pick in the draft) the standards Battle is being held up to are unreasonably high at the moment.


What he said! :)
 
I'll go ahead and make an argument for Tyus being a first round draft pick, because I think he's been fantastic this year, and this thread is absolute garbage.
...
My feeling is that its about 50-50 whether Battle is a first round draft pick or not ...
You obviously put a lot of effort into that, but as far as whether or not he's a first rounder, you could have just wrote: " ¯\_(ツ)_/¯"

It's also obvious, that a lot of people have issues with semantics. And that is what results in a thread being "garbage". (-)NBA first rounder/=Terrible player
 
Oh. You kept complaining about how we didnt get any Top 100 prospects. I'd say Oshae Brissett has been pretty good. I think Sidibe looks pretty good. I'd say Dolejaz contributes, wouldn't you? I'd say the freshmen class has done a lot. You're 50 more clueless than I and the board already knew. Just curious, but what record did you think we would have this season? NIT?

Said 100 times we go .500 acc play and sneak into the tournament.

Brissett has been bad on offense, and outside of him the freshman class hasn't been top 100 quality and Sidibe gets an incomplete.

You and the board? That's comical.
 
If Tyus stayed he'd also be 3 months shy of 22 for the '19 draft. Unless he blows up, that hurts him.
 
It's also obvious, that a lot of people have issues with semantics. And that is what results in a thread being "garbage". (-)NBA first rounder/=Terrible player

I mean, it’s not just semantics. I think there’s a huge difference between saying someone has been poor and really good. Quoting stats without context isn’t really useful. Watch the games. Battle has been one of the best players in the ACC.
 
I didn't want to jump in here but I decided to, against my better judgment.

Tyus's biggest negative (that I haven't seen brought up in this thread) is his lack of a left hand, which is bizarre to me because I watched Tyus in high school quite a bit and he never had a problem going left or finishing left. It's made him so much easier to defend.

I expected him to be much better on the break too. As an aside, do we even practice fast break fundamentals? Ie: 2 on 1 drills? How can we be that bad in man advantage situations? And why do our guards insist on going 1 on 2... Are they admonished when they do so?

Also, he does have an odd release that has gotten more herky jerky. It's like he fell into a bad habit and it's gotten more pronounced over time.

He was a decent passer in high school, extremely unselfish and had solid vision. Nothing off the page but solid. Why that hasn't come out is beyond me? I think JB told him we need his scoring. That said, his assist numbers should be better, regardless of our personnel. He's shown small glimpses of his passing acumen, so why doesn't it come out more often?

Tyus is strong, a solid defender and can get a shot off, despite a ton of attention. Those are the positives. The shooting numbers have been disappointing. I was hoping we'd see a progression this year with his shot. Maybe it's the added attention but his shooting isn't great for a shooting guard.

I like Tyus. His step back is nice. He has a nice midrange game. I think he would be a great man defender and will be professionally.

Oh, and I think he will enter the draft. I don't see much of a chance of a first round selection for him and sadly he could go undrafted. Hopefully, he does well at the combine and goes in the second. How would he go in the first round? He's shown who he is on the court. His athleticism will come out at the combine but it won't be that overwhelming.
 
Said 100 times we go .500 acc play and sneak into the tournament.

Brissett has been bad on offense, and outside of him the freshman class hasn't been top 100 quality and Sidibe gets an incomplete.

You and the board? That's comical.

So we’re on pace then? Why do you think that is?

Yeah...Brissett is averaging almost 15 ppg and 9 rebounds per game. If you think that’s not doing much, I don’t know what to tell you. Shooting 31% from 3 isn’t great (Carmelo was 33.7%) and he’s struggling to finish shots at times (33%) but he’s helping us win games. I recall him hitting a big 3 in the Pitt game. Makes a lot of FT’s. Rebounds and defense count too, right?

Sidibe has been hurt. We saw what he can do skill wise the other day. He’s a good player.

You can pick out 1 or 2 stats and say they aren’t good, but try watching the games. It’s not about box scores.
 
I'll go ahead and make an argument for Tyus being a first round draft pick, because I think he's been fantastic this year, and this thread is absolute garbage.

There are maybe 10 or so college players with so much talent that they should be able contribute in the NBA. These guys will be the first 10 picks in the draft. After those 10, the odds are against every other player turning into someone who can consistently contribute at the NBA level, so essentially what GM's do is play the lottery and hope the guy they choose (who has 100-1 odds of making it big) hits.

Tyus is in a group of maybe 50 or 60 players who have a small chance to contribute in the NBA. When you are in this group the difference between being drafted at the tail end of the lottery and not being drafted at all is incredibly small, and little things can lead to huge jumps in draft stock. We've seen it before. The 6 OT game pushed Flynn from an undrafted player to the lottery. 10 amazing minutes against Virginia pushed Malachi from undrafted to the first round.

Battle will probably have the measurables that the NBA wants, and he's going to have plenty of chances to convince an NBA GM (it only takes one) that he's the player they should be taking a chance on. Would it surprise anybody if Tyus put up 30 against Virginia on Saturday, or against Duke? That might be all it takes.

My feeling is that its about 50-50 whether Battle is a first round draft pick or not, but going by who is on draft boards now is meaningless. Battle might not be the chosen one in this moment in time among the 50 or 60 players fighting for a first round pick, but the draft isn't right now, and Battle will have good measurables and more opportunity than many to impress.

As for his PER, I want to say that all stats are meaningless without context. Battle is the only player on that list who gets triple teamed as a normal strategy by opposing teams. There is a huge amount of defensive focus on him because we don't have many good options, and he is forced to shoot a lot anyway (again, because we don't have many good options). Nobody in college basketball right now is capable of being efficient under those circumstances, so you have to take PER, shooting percentage, and 3 point percentage with a huge grain of salt.

As for rebounds, our front line is doing a great job rebounding, so we are not overly reliant on our guards this year. I see 5 good rebounders on SU at most times, but only one guy can actually grab the board. More times than not that's Moyer, Brissett, Chukwu, or Dolezaj, and that shouldn't be held against Battle, those guys are suppose to do the bulk of the rebounding.

As for assists, ideally yes, Battle would be a better passer, but lets not forget that he's a sophomore getting his first experience being "the man." In situations where we have a primary scorer who doesn't have a lot of experience Boeheim often times encourages them to just focus on what they do best. Carmelo Anthony had the ball in his hands more than Battle does and averaged similar assists. Same with Dion Waiters. If Battle did come back, and still had relatively few assists as a junior, that would be a problem, I see it as less of a problem this year.

As for turnovers, yes we want Battle to make fewer turnovers than he does, but again he is facing a pretty much unprecedented level of defensive attention. A few extra turnovers are going to happen when the defense can get away with hounding one guy and our supporting cast has not made defenses pay nearly enough for choosing to hound Battle.

Bottom line, the most valuable skill a basketball player can have is being able to put the ball in the basket against a defense that is set up to stop you. Battle is the best we've had at this since Carmelo Anthony. He's had a great year. There are flaws in his game, certainly, but in the hundred plus year history of SU basketball, you can't name me a player who didn't have any obvious flaws (except maybe Derrick Coleman who was the #1 pick in the draft) the standards Battle is being held up to are unreasonably high at the moment.

Why are the standards unreasonable? Kid wants to head to the league after this year and we want him to play for us to that level. He is being graded on that curve and isn't hitting it. If anyone thinks he is exceeding their expectations than I'm not sure what you were hoping for but must not have been very high.

Kids giving us a helluva effort every game but a lot of us just feel he's not at the level we and I imagine he was expecting and it's primarily efficiency based. No one thinks he's or below average.
 
Our offense and playing in the zone and him getting a year older and doing Geology homework does nothing to help him with the NBA.

With the cap growth slowing down and 2-way contracts, draft picks, even 2nd rounders, are more coveted than ever.

This is a no-brainer.

He's a two guard on offense. Teams can fix his shot. He's 6'6". He needs to be able to guard 1-3 in the NBA and that will take a lot of work, but he can get there.

As General20 noted above - there are a handful of NBA guys that are legit right now and then everyone else.
 
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Why are the standards unreasonable? Kid wants to head to the league after this year and we want him to play for us to that level. He is being graded on that curve and isn't hitting it. If anyone thinks he is exceeding their expectations than I'm not sure what you were hoping for but must not have been very high.

Kids giving us a helluva effort every game but a lot of us just feel he's not at the level we and I imagine he was expecting and it's primarily efficiency based. No one thinks he's or below average.

I'll try to make this simple. If you expect him to be an efficient scorer when every defense throws everything they've got at stopping him, and we rely on him to score almost a third of our points anyway then your expectations are too high. Nobody is capable of efficiency under those circumstances.
 
Why are the standards unreasonable? Kid wants to head to the league after this year and we want him to play for us to that level. He is being graded on that curve and isn't hitting it. If anyone thinks he is exceeding their expectations than I'm not sure what you were hoping for but must not have been very high.

Kids giving us a helluva effort every game but a lot of us just feel he's not at the level we and I imagine he was expecting and it's primarily efficiency based. No one thinks he's or below average.

What were your expectations? Alonzo Trier from Arizona has similar numbers. 19.7 ppg, 3 rebounds and 3.2 assists per game. Better shooter, of course, but he doesnt rebound, and he gets to dump the ball off to DeAndre Ayton and Rawle Alkins and that other 7 footer averaging 11 ppg. Like Tyus, 2.5 turnovers per game. I think he’s considered a 1st round pick.
 

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