Hopkins Gameday...

[Troughin']

Jumping into the fray late here, but what I find so stunning is that a team coached by the father of creativity has shown none, nada, zilch. Cycle the ball for 70 seconds, then take a horrible angle shot and let the clock run out. I expected we'd be seeing plays that no one has even dreamt of before, playing shock and awe ball and keeping opponents completely off balance. That's how you take a team with average talent and make them into a contender. I keep wondering if Gary is actually coaching the team, or just standing in as a figurehead for recruiting purposes.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[wgdsr]

Jumping into the fray late here, but what I find so stunning is that a team coached by the father of creativity has shown none, nada, zilch. Cycle the ball for 70 seconds, then take a horrible angle shot and let the clock run out. I expected we'd be seeing plays that no one has even dreamt of before, playing shock and awe ball and keeping opponents completely off balance. That's how you take a team with average talent and make them into a contender. I keep wondering if Gary is actually coaching the team, or just standing in as a figurehead for recruiting purposes.

agree with a bunch of this. my own thought was i expected:
- breakneck pace and pushing transition at all opportunities
- given what little came out in the fall, 1000 reps a month for everyone on btb's and backhand shots on o
- cuse fans suffering thru the early growing pains (as uva did) on turnovers but also liking the style

when i've coached against superior teams, we had to do at least something to mix it up. transition, riding is one. either really packing it in on d and making them hit outside shots is another. or hard double on any dodge, cover crease and adjacents and make them find the far guy under pressure. fly around to the point it's noticeable you're outhustling and create some chaos.

winning when they face more formidable foes will be difficult to impossible without a great outing in some aspects.

 

[nyclax]

Uncle Ric mentions that Hopkins scored a goal on the man-up as a way to, in part, excuse Thompson's performance in goal. The only problem with that is that Hopkins did not have a single EMO in the game. Whoops.

Hopkins did a pretty decent job cutting off Syracuse transition opportunities, but I believe that the Orange can definitely afford to push the pace more in general. It will take time for Gait to build the culture he wants and bring in the recruits to make it happen but the fact that we haven't seen a lick of the promised creativity in basically any capacity is a little underwhelming to me as a lacrosse fan. I was excited by the things he was saying in his intro media blitz but with each passing day it looks more likely that that was just PR talk.

 

[wgdsr]

did i miss everyone talking about caccamo? 5 gbs, 4 ctos, picking everyone's pocket.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

Uncle Ric mentions that Hopkins scored a goal on the man-up as a way to, in part, excuse Thompson's performance in goal. The only problem with that is that Hopkins did not have a single EMO in the game. Whoops.

Hopkins did a pretty decent job cutting off Syracuse transition opportunities, but I believe that the Orange can definitely afford to push the pace more in general. It will take time for Gait to build the culture he wants and bring in the recruits to make it happen but the fact that we haven't seen a lick of the promised creativity in basically any capacity is a little underwhelming to me as a lacrosse fan. I was excited by the things he was saying in his intro media blitz but with each passing day it looks more likely that that was just PR talk.

It feels like it has been so long since we ran any of the transition game that made our program famous. Not sure if anyone does any more. UVa has some of it I guess. I loved Tiffany's Brown teams and the Tufts Jumbos under Kerwin. There is a lot more hold the ball in the game than ever before. It used to be marketed as the fastest game on two feet and it sure does not feel like it anymore. Maybe it is the technology as there are less options for fast breaks because it is so damn hard to get the ball out of a players stick. Errr get off my lawn!

 

[MD Cuse Fan]

It feels like it has been so long since we ran any of the transition game that made our program famous. Not sure if anyone does any more. UVa has some of it I guess. I loved Tiffany's Brown teams and the Tufts Jumbos under Kerwin. There is a lot more hold the ball in the game than ever before. It used to be marketed as the fastest game on two feet and it sure does not feel like it anymore. Maybe it is the technology as there are less options for fast breaks because it is so damn hard to get the ball out of a players stick. Errr get off my lawn!

I think UVA cetainly likes to run more uptempo when they have the opportunites. Rutgers did last year but doesn't seem to much this season based on what's written about them. As far as your last comment there could be something to technology but as I'm sure many other's who have consistently watched the game would say, it's gotten so specialized, a lot of teams don't look to push it and then with all the substitutions it takes longer to get the offense set up. Initially I was against the shot clock but I do think it's helped the game somewhat.

 

[DoctahLexus]

Do people actually think that Gait stands around and does nothing during practice as well? Or that he doesn't spend hours and hours discussing strategy, watching film. and proposing ideas with March and Petro? Do people actually think he is not doing his job?

Can we please get back to judging the actual coaching decisions, lineups, substitution patterns, half time adjustments, etc? The things we gave Desko crap for rather than how he looked on the sideline? Plenty of legit things to complain about in those categories. Granted some did complain about Desko's demeanor, but that was not why people wanted him gone. People wanted him gone because of the results.

As I have said from day 1, the most encouraging aspect of Gait's resume is not that he is the greatest male laxer of all time, it is the success he was able to achieve as head coach in the women's game. You don't build a successful program of any kind in any sport if all you do is stand around. If someone wants to make the claim the he did none of the work besides being a "figurehead for recruiting purposes" when coaching the women's team, I better hear a direct testimonial from a women's player who was coached by him. Otherwise you are just stirring crap up. Are there any women's players out there who were glad to see the back of him? Or claim that he got to 8 final fours and 3 runner ups in 14 years by just standing around being Gary Gait? You think it is that much of a cake walk to be a head coach in the women's game? Just show up as a former superstar player and you are good to go?

 

[nyclax]

Some people thought that 2016 Brown team was going to change the way the game was played but people quickly realized it's almost impossible to replicate that magic. They had the best goalie in the country in Jack Kelly. They had one of the best faceoff men in Will Gural who also chipped in 11 goals on offense, no big deal. And then they had two poles in Kemp and Tulett who had an uncanny ability to push transition and then stay on to play offense and actually produce. They combined for 31 pts that year. Longpoles! That's completely unheard of. You can't constantly push the pace the way that team did without those ingredients. I don't think we'll ever see it again. Tiffany's UVA teams can play fast but even they don't really look much like that Brown team.

That said, there's a middle ground between that team and what Syracuse is currently doing. They need to take more chances. Their poles and shorties are fast enough. I've liked what I've seen on occasion from Alexo.

 

[hplare]

How many times does someone have to bend down or reach for an uncontested pass. Simmons Sr. stressed put he ball on the stick. These guys should watch the women pass and catch.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Uncle Ric mentions that Hopkins scored a goal on the man-up as a way to, in part, excuse Thompson's performance in goal. The only problem with that is that Hopkins did not have a single EMO in the game. Whoops.

Hop did score an empty netter at the end.

 

[JustSayin]

Do people actually think that Gait stands around and does nothing during practice as well? Or that he doesn't spend hours and hours discussing strategy, watching film. and proposing ideas with March and Petro? Do people actually think he is not doing his job?

Can we please get back to judging the actual coaching decisions, lineups, substitution patterns, half time adjustments, etc? The things we gave Desko crap for rather than how he looked on the sideline? Plenty of legit things to complain about in those categories. Granted some did complain about Desko's demeanor, but that was not why people wanted him gone. People wanted him gone because of the results.

As I have said from day 1, the most encouraging aspect of Gait's resume is not that he is the greatest male laxer of all time, it is the success he was able to achieve as head coach in the women's game. You don't build a successful program of any kind in any sport if all you do is stand around. If someone wants to make the claim the he did none of the work besides being a "figurehead for recruiting purposes" when coaching the women's team, I better hear a direct testimonial from a women's player who was coached by him. Otherwise you are just stirring crap up. Are there any women's players out there who were glad to see the back of him? Or claim that he got to 8 final fours and 3 runner ups in 14 years by just standing around being Gary Gait? You think it is that much of a cake walk to be a head coach in the women's game? Just show up as a former superstar player and you are good to go?

I agree with the Dr, I'd argue Gait's lacrosse IQ is second to none. I actually like his subued, calm demeaner on the sideline at game time. His players don't need to hear multiple coaches talking over each other. I've read some posts that allude to Gait not supporting his players. I have had face time with Gait about his students academic success so I can share that he cares deeply about his players. So let's put that to bed.

So I'd ask this, did we really think there was going to be an"instant" transformation from the 6 x 6 style of play with heavy specialization to the "up tempo" transition run & gun? I didn't.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Do people actually think that Gait stands around and does nothing during practice as well? Or that he doesn't spend hours and hours discussing strategy, watching film. and proposing ideas with March and Petro? Do people actually think he is not doing his job?

Can we please get back to judging the actual coaching decisions, lineups, substitution patterns, half time adjustments, etc? The things we gave Desko crap for rather than how he looked on the sideline? Plenty of legit things to complain about in those categories. Granted some did complain about Desko's demeanor, but that was not why people wanted him gone. People wanted him gone because of the results.

As I have said from day 1, the most encouraging aspect of Gait's resume is not that he is the greatest male laxer of all time, it is the success he was able to achieve as head coach in the women's game. You don't build a successful program of any kind in any sport if all you do is stand around. If someone wants to make the claim the he did none of the work besides being a "figurehead for recruiting purposes" when coaching the women's team, I better hear a direct testimonial from a women's player who was coached by him. Otherwise you are just stirring crap up. Are there any women's players out there who were glad to see the back of him? Or claim that he got to 8 final fours and 3 runner ups in 14 years by just standing around being Gary Gait? You think it is that much of a cake walk to be a head coach in the women's game? Just show up as a former superstar player and you are good to go?

To be fair I think it was maybe one maybe two posters who brought up the sideline demeanor and even then they mentioned that they just felt it was odd which if were being honest is correct.

Personally I don't have any issue if that's what works best for him. To me the bigger issue is what you mentioned in the second paragraph ie lineups, substitution patterns, half time adjustments, etc? We haven't seen really and discernable adjustments, the substituation patterns are non-existent after halftime and the lineups from an O standpoint are questionable even with the injury to Hiltz.

I agree that Gait was an excellent womens HC and his success stands for itself. That said I am not sure how much of that if any translates to the Mens team, so far his decisions and the offense overall have been massive dissapointments and even his PC comments haven't exactly been re-assuring. I could care less about his sideline demeanor but right now I have major concerns about his coaching and personnel decisions.

 

[JeremyCuse]

did i miss everyone talking about caccamo? 5 gbs, 4 ctos, picking everyone's pocket.

Ya he was excellent, so was Kennedy for the most part. There is the foundation for a real nice D in a few years with Caccamo, Rice, Olexxo, Clary, and the two incoming frosh next year who both look great.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Moving forward, SB at home will be challenging, Rutgers found that out. Team needs to put this behind them, not sure that will be all that easy

Biggest concern right now is the wheels just coming completely off like PSU last year. It was one of the issues I pointed out when the schedule was released, very unforgiving and if things get off track it can real nasty real quick.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

So I'd ask this, did we really think there was going to be an"instant" transformation from the 6 x 6 style of play with heavy specialization to the "up tempo" transition run & gun? I didn't.

maybe not instant but some signs of it would be nice?

 

[sholokov2]

I agree with the Dr, I'd argue Gait's lacrosse IQ is second to none. I actually like his subued, calm demeaner on the sideline at game time. His players don't need to hear multiple coaches talking over each other. I've read some posts that allude to Gait not supporting his players. I have had face time with Gait about his students academic success so I can share that he cares deeply about his players. So let's put that to bed.

So I'd ask this, did we really think there was going to be an"instant" transformation from the 6 x 6 style of play with heavy specialization to the "up tempo" transition run & gun? I didn't.

I was one of those who expressed concerns about his character having to do with the Spallino NIL and his suggestion more than once that a better quality of player is heading to SU. I will hold these in abeyance for more evidence over a period of time based on your welcome reassurance.

 

[CuseNHouse]

That narrative is tiresome. Not enuff talent to be a FF team but top layer good enuff to be a tourney team if supporting cast properly employed to augment . Team should be 4-2 not 2-4. Hopkins is not better than Cuse and Q has them at 12 .

Hiltz goes down and there has been no address to who takes over role as distributor. . Offense has no point guard, not even a point forward. If no individual capable then had to be a team effort to distribute ball . Latter is there if stressed . Instead just run our two best offensive mids into doubles and keep our fingers crossed .Works agaisnt weaker defense but we seldom play weak defenses . Coris a talent who can create but being wasted . Curry can pass some off dodges , maybe move him to attack and let him draw and kick out to shooters such as Quinn and Cordes who receive few passes in space . Butter doesn't even get rep Deficiencies in transition on both sides partly due to poor on and off subbing . Could go on and on. Miss Donahue

Would like to see Corsi at attack over Berkman ,,,I he would draw slides and make immediate impact

 

[tbonezone]

Agree on Curry. I think he is playing too much which also impacts his shooting. We need to rotate in Corsi, Cordis, Tenaglia, and others more often.

the rotation serves dual purposes. #1 it keeps your players fresher and faster .
#2 (and more importantly) it lets your players know if you screw up you sit .
no better motivation than playing time. it's not a gift. you earn it. or sit. NEXT!

 

[DoctahLexus]

To be fair I think it was maybe one maybe two posters who brought up the sideline demeanor and even then they mentioned that they just felt it was odd which if were being honest is correct.

Personally I don't have any issue if that's what works best for him. To me the bigger issue is what you mentioned in the second paragraph ie lineups, substitution patterns, half time adjustments, etc? We haven't seen really and discernable adjustments, the substituation patterns are non-existent after halftime and the lineups from an O standpoint are questionable even with the injury to Hiltz.

I agree that Gait was an excellent womens HC and his success stands for itself. That said I am not sure how much of that if any translates to the Mens team, so far his decisions and the offense overall have been massive dissapointments and even his PC comments haven't exactly been re-assuring. I could care less about his sideline demeanor but right now I have major concerns about his coaching and personnel decisions.

I agree mostly, but some of us were in agreement at the beginning of the year that Army and Hop on the road would be tough games that could go either way, and that was before Hiltz went down. Losing both was never an impossibility and quite possible after losing hiltz. Now that possibility has become reality and some people are suddenly leaning more towards him having some fundamental flaws as a head coach, rather than thinking simply about how this team performed last year and who we lost. I think we have to at least consider that what we have seen so far in terms of wins and losses and scores of games is not that far off from what many of us were predicting at the start of the season.

Now that the Hop defeat is less fresh, I am trying to focus less on micro in-game moments and step back and look at the situation. This is the squad last year that was thoroughly beaten by Army in the opener, was completely humiliated by UNC ND Georgetown, and that was with Dearth, Wycoff, Rehfuss (a guy who was rookie of the year contender in the PLL), Hiltz, Trimboli, Scanlan, Porter, and more. That and they were coached by a D1 mens vet with several rings who recruited them, had coached them for years, and had specific plans for their role on the team. Now we are being coached by a guy who this time last year was fully devoted to the women's team and chose not to hit the portal in any serious way in year 1. Can we really be that disappointed in him already? Can we really be that surprised? We are in a hole, one that Gait did not create, and one that neither Gait or ANY coach could turn around in a single year, let alone the first month of the season.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

We have high expectations in Syracuse.

Part of me thought that the Scanlon situation really impacted the team chemistry last year. You are right the Army loss was devastating and very surprising. All winter I thought that team was a national title contender coming off the now flawed undefeated #1 record. All those returning players and I hoped for better play. They never developed any true flow despite some huge wins against UVA and others. I recall tough games at Duke, etc. Again I thought that with all the stuff off the field, pressure on Desko's job, the grind, etc. the team folded under all of it and this year would be different.

I was hoping for a refresh/reboot fast and loose approach this year with a style that was going to be unique and had fun glimpses to watch. It has been more of the same. I know we are replacing a lot and that includes Hiltz. There are still some good players on the team and we should have at the very least split Army/Hop. Agreed it is not fair to judge Gait but his start is uninspiring.

I agree mostly, but some of us were in agreement at the beginning of the year that Army and Hop on the road would be tough games that could go either way, and that was before Hiltz went down. Losing both was never an impossibility and quite possible after losing hiltz. Now that possibility has become reality and some people are suddenly leaning more towards him having some fundamental flaws as a head coach, rather than thinking simply about how this team performed last year and who we lost. I think we have to at least consider that what we have seen so far in terms of wins and losses and scores of games is not that far off from what many of us were predicting at the start of the season.

Now that the Hop defeat is less fresh, I am trying to focus less on micro in-game moments and step back and look at the situation. This is the squad last year that was thoroughly beaten by Army in the opener, was completely humiliated by UNC ND Georgetown, and that was with Dearth, Wycoff, Rehfuss (a guy who was rookie of the year contender in the PLL), Hiltz, Trimboli, Scanlan, Porter, and more. That and they were coached by a D1 mens vet with several rings who recruited them, had coached them for years, and had specific plans for their role on the team. Now we are being coached by a guy who this time last year was fully devoted to the women's team and chose not to hit the portal in any serious way in year 1. Can we really be that disappointed in him already? Can we really be that surprised? We are in a hole, one that Gait did not create, and one that neither Gait or ANY coach could turn around in a single year, let alone the first month of the season.

 

[DoctahLexus]

We have high expectations in Syracuse.

Part of me thought that the Scanlon situation really impacted the team chemistry last year. You are right the Army loss was devastating and very surprising. All winter I thought that team was a national title contender coming off the now flawed undefeated #1 record. All those returning players and I hoped for better play. They never developed any true flow despite some huge wins against UVA and others. I recall tough games at Duke, etc. Again I thought that with all the stuff off the field, pressure on Desko's job, the grind, etc. the team folded under all of it and this year would be different.

I was hoping for a refresh/reboot fast and loose approach this year with a style that was going to be unique and had fun glimpses to watch. It has been more of the same. I know we are replacing a lot and that includes Hiltz. There are still some good players on the team and we should have at the very least split Army/Hop. Agreed it is not fair to judge Gait but his start is uninspiring.

I get wanting to see some signs of a new style of play and approach, but also think it is impossible to snap your fingers and have that be in place, especially when nearly all the guys getting PT have all played literally their full undergrad years under the previous coach. Seebold Berkman Dordevic Quinn Cook Curry are all either academic seniors or grad students. The whole starting lineup! Can you change their approach in a few months? We want the team to play loose, but we are also steaming mad after they turn it over with a risky play or take a gutsy shot early in the shot clock! It would be a lofty goal if we had the best talent in college lax, and we clearly do not have that at present.

 

[wgdsr]

september to now is plenty of time to encourage transition, risk taking, install an offense. it seems that's been reined back. coaches' call. short bench. you can't run a parallel sim to see how it would've worked. this last game, aggressive riding was encouraging. poles causing turnovers. kennedy is a #1.

but as you say, you can't have both. you have to live with some mistakes for the times they push it.

agree on those pushing back on the hand wringing that have posted on coaching styles in-game. desko coached those teams in the 80s and 90s. slugger was the spirit and soul. many coaches, top coaches do it similar. tierney's the greatest coach ever because he's fiery at the refs! he's protecting his guys!! haven't seen him do anything but jawbone at refs for years 90%, 10% left to yell at a random player. uses his late timeouts so he can scream at stripes on the actual field. the hop crew have chimed in on gait similarly and they wanted nadelen! he might not have spoken to a player in-game in years.

 

[JustSayin]

I get wanting to see some signs of a new style of play and approach, but also think it is impossible to snap your fingers and have that be in place, especially when nearly all the guys getting PT have all played literally their full undergrad years under the previous coach. Seebold Berkman Dordevic Quinn Cook Curry are all either academic seniors or grad students. The whole starting lineup! Can you change their approach in a few months? We want the team to play loose, but we are also steaming mad after they turn it over with a risky play or take a gutsy shot early in the shot clock! It would be a lofty goal if we had the best talent in college lax, and we clearly do not have that at present.

It is obvious that many of you have played and coached. It is no surprise that a player's lacrosse IQ is developed over many years and for some dating back to elementary school. So much of what a player does on the field is muscle memory. I've never had any allusions to this team recuited and coached for a completely different style could make the adjustment to Gait's system so quickly. Win/loss record aside, I like the direction the stats are heading.

 

[redhead091]

Would like to see Corsi at attack over Berkman ,,,I he would draw slides and make immediate impact

I agree with this but would also like to see Birtwistle get some runs on attack...does anyone know if he's available or hurt?