Malcom Cater is asking for a second chance

[OttoMets]

Not singling you out, KC. Just surprised people on this board are actually thinking we should take him back. That ship sailed.

If I broke into a house up in Syracuse and got convicted of 3 felonies, I would be expelled from SU and could never get back into that school. And because Cater "served his time" he "deserves a second chance"? Why? Because he plays football? Horrible argument. There is no good reason anyone can give on why he should be invited back.

Devil's advocate:

Because Sales's "charges were dropped" he "deserves a second chance"? Why? Because the local district attorney has a heavy hand on the scales of justice when it comes to certain Syracuse athletes? Horrible argument...

Dunno if Cater should be invited back, but - given the local behind-the-scenes shenanigans with the DA - indictments and convictions do seem a rather arbitrary standard by which to determine fitness for being on the team.

 

[xc84]

I mean, let he who has never stolen a tv throw the first stone, right?

it's not about that to me. Marrone has to make the final call but if his players (who know the kid) are not comfortable with him coming back, it gives them the opportunity to weigh in. If Nassib and the entire team believe it would not be a good idea to let Cater back, then it's an easy call for Marrone.

 

[bnoro]

Devil's advocate:

Because Sales's "charges were dropped" he "deserves a second chance"? Why? Because the local district attorney has a heavy hand on the scales of justice when it comes to certain Syracuse athletes? Horrible argument...

Dunno if Cater should be invited back, but - given the local behind-the-scenes shenanigans with the DA - indictments and convictions do seem a rather arbitrary standard by which to determine fitness for being on the team.

If that's the case why did Cater get convicted? Sales also was suspended for a full season. I'd argue that Sales did more time than Cater did without getting convicted of a crime.

 

[OttoMets]

If that's the case why did Cater get convicted? Sales also was suspended for a full season. I'd argue that Sales did more time than Cater did without getting convicted of a crime.

I know it's silly to make these comparisons, but it's worth throwing out there.

(And I'm as in the dark as anyone as to why Cater's charges were pursued and Sales's - arguably more serious - were dropped. It speaks to how arbitrary the whole thing is.)

 

[orange03]

Let him back, but under a couple conditions.
1. He has to carry Nassib's books around for him
2. No iPad

 

[FAL]

If there is a need on the team for his talents, sure, let him back on the team subject to the parameters other posters listed (Nassib approval, unanimous team vote, short lease, etc, etc.). If not--"See ya!"
Let the coaches make the initial evaluation as to yea or nay.

 

[bnoro]

If there is a need on the team for his talents, sure, let him back on the team subject to the parameters other posters listed (Nassib approval, unanimous team vote, short lease, etc, etc.). If not--"See ya!"
Let the coaches make the initial evaluation as to yea or nay.

Why are we arguing this? A CONVICTED FELON isn't getting readmitted to Syracuse University, especially not just because he plays football.

I don't think the team would want him back anyways.

 

[FAL]

Why are we arguing this? A CONVICTED FELON isn't getting readmitted to Syracuse University, especially not just because he plays football.

I don't think the team would want him back anyways.


Time will tell...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I know it's silly to make these comparisons, but it's worth throwing out there.

(And I'm as in the dark as anyone as to why Cater's charges were pursued and Sales's - arguably more serious - were dropped. It speaks to how arbitrary the whole thing is.)

The drugs were found in a vehicle that was registered to Sales' brother, and the brother admitted that the drugs were his.

Cater can't claim that he didn't know anything about the stolen property because it was found in his apartment, and he was caught red handed.

 

[OburgCuse]

Why are we arguing this? A CONVICTED FELON isn't getting readmitted to Syracuse University, especially not just because he plays football.

I don't think the team would want him back anyways.

Playing devil's advocate here a little do we know that he will actually officially have a felony on his record? I'm no expert on the legal system and I'm not sure what the terms were to his conviction and plea but if a first time offender (this prob isn't the case depending on his juvie record and juvie time he already did) he may have been able to apply for a COD or get it dropped down to misdemeanor for good behavior, etc even though initially it was a felony.

As far as the felony stuff goes I had 2 separate friends at SU one of which had a felony on his record before applying and another which got one while there and neither were given any problems by SU. I don't know if SU knew about them which I guess would make this a moot point if they didn't, but they both were good guys who made stupid mistakes and went on to graduate and hold good jobs now.

So I'm just saying we prob don't know the whole story about his conviction and how the school handles it and I really don't care either way if he ends up back at SU or not. I do believe if he has learned from his mistake and can be a model citizen from here on out I believe he does deserve a second chance if someone is willing to give it to him. As far as SU goes I can understand them not wanting him back or if the school, HCDM, players, etc are comfortable with him coming back I'm cool with that also. One option that I haven't heard yet as far as him returning to SU is requiring him to go to Nassau for a year as kind of a trial period then if all is well he would be allowed back and still have 2 to play 2. Either way I don't really care because we'll be fine either way, but I'd like to see the kid land on his feet if he is indeed sincere and changed.

 

[rrlbees]

The drugs were found in a vehicle that was registered to Sales' brother, and the brother admitted that the drugs were his.

Cater can't claim that he didn't know anything about the stolen property because it was found in his apartment, and he was caught red handed.

There's always more to every story.

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[Capt. Tuttle]

Devil's advocate:

Because Sales's "charges were dropped" he "deserves a second chance"? Why? Because the local district attorney has a heavy hand on the scales of justice when it comes to certain Syracuse athletes? Horrible argument...

Dunno if Cater should be invited back, but - given the local behind-the-scenes shenanigans with the DA - indictments and convictions do seem a rather arbitrary standard by which to determine fitness for being on the team.

Ummm...same DA.

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[ImperialOrange]

Quote after sentencing

"The defense lawyer said it was unlikely Cater would ever seek to apply to return to SU. But he said a number of colleges - primarily in the south - are looking at Cater as a football prospect once he's out of prison."
S.com

Makes sense. There's no snow to allow police to follow his foot steps back to his apartment.

Also, he wouldn't need to steal what boosters freely give at southern schools.

 

[JD]

Kind of feel bad for the kid the pregnant girlfriend was probably applying some pressure in terms of his helping out. Lesson 1 in Life skills should be "Your Condom and You a Love Story"

 

[OttoinGrotto]

it's not about that to me. Marrone has to make the final call but if his players (who know the kid) are not comfortable with him coming back, it gives them the opportunity to weigh in. If Nassib and the entire team believe it would not be a good idea to let Cater back, then it's an easy call for Marrone.

Mostly my statement was just a lame joke.

 

[OrangeHeel]

As an add-on to a five page thread, this might not get read, but here goes:

My perspective is that of a prosecutor with a reputation for being very aggressive pursuing violent felonies. That doesn't make my opinion more valid, just put out there to give you an idea where I'm coming from. Some thoughts:

1. Can't compare Sales v. Cater outcome. Sales' brother fell on his sword for his brother. Sales' charges got dismissed. Whatever suspicions you might have, the system did its job and the result should be respected.

2. Cater was lucky not to end up with a violent felony since he actually entered a residence which is a Burglary 2nd. Having said that, and without knowing all the facts, a Burglary 3rd conviction with state prison is a fairly stiff outcome under all of the facts and circumstances.

3. Cater went to a shock camp which is the DOCS equivalent of a military boot camp. It's a great program and I've yet to see someone go through the program who isn't better off upon there exit. Every word out of their mouth is "sir, yes sir" and they are ready to make a new start. The problem is that there usually isn't a "new start". Instead it's back to the same non-existent support system.

4. This is a critical time for Cater since he needs to get back into a sound support system like existed at Syracuse. Yes, he blew it once, but that doesn't mean that Syracuse should wash its hands of him. To me, when you recruit a player you make a commitment to him and he makes one to you. While he didn't live up to his commitment, I think the nobler thing to do is to take him back. You don't give up on a family member without careful thought and consideration. (And I could care less how good he is at football. My opinion would be the same even if he was a walk-on practice player.)

5. We send people to prison to deter, to punish, and to rehabilitate. As a society we decide how much time fits a particular crime. Cater did his time. He should be allowed to pursue a second chance at SU. I'll leave it to HCDM and the University whether that second chance should be granted.

6. As to the sanctimonious "he's a convicted felon" argument, I've long been of the opinion that every single one of us has committed a vilation of the Penal Law. It's not that hard to do. It can be as easy as having a fake driver's license to get into a bar to drink. That little gem is called Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument 2nd and is a D Felony in NY -- which just happens to be the same level of felony as Cater was convicted of.

7. In prosecution, I've always taken the approach that each victim and each defendant should be treated fairly under all the facts and circumstance. I've prosecuted murderers, rapists, and all sorts of deviates and was happy to put them in prison for as long as possible. With all that, if you believe in the system, and I do, Cater deserves a second chance. If he is sincere and convinces SU of that, I hope it's at SU. If not, I'll hope that he'll be a great success at some other school

 

[rrlbees]

As an add-on to a five page thread, this might not get read, but here goes:

My perspective is that of a prosecutor with a reputation for being very aggressive pursuing violent felonies. That doesn't make my opinion more valid, just put out there to give you an idea where I'm coming from. Some thoughts:

1. Can't compare Sales v. Cater outcome. Sales' brother fell on his sword for his brother. Sales' charges got dismissed. Whatever suspicions you might have, the system did its job and the result should be respected.

2. Cater was lucky not to end up with a violent felony since he actually entered a residence which is a Burglary 2nd. Having said that, and without knowing all the facts, a Burglary 3rd conviction with state prison is a fairly stiff outcome under all of the facts and circumstances.

3. Cater went to a shock camp which is the DOCS equivalent of a military boot camp. It's a great program and I've yet to see someone go through the program who isn't better off upon there exit. Every word out of their mouth is "sir, yes sir" and they are ready to make a new start. The problem is that there usually isn't a "new start". Instead it's back to the same non-existent support system.

4. This is a critical time for Cater since he needs to get back into a sound support system like existed at Syracuse. Yes, he blew it once, but that doesn't mean that Syracuse should wash its hands of him. To me, when you recruit a player you make a commitment to him and he makes one to you. While he didn't live up to his commitment, I think the nobler thing to do is to take him back. You don't give up on a family member without careful thought and consideration. (And I could care less how good he is at football. My opinion would be the same even if he was a walk-on practice player.)

5. We send people to prison to deter, to punish, and to rehabilitate. As a society we decide how much time fits a particular crime. Cater did his time. He should be allowed to pursue a second chance at SU. I'll leave it to HCDM and the University whether that second chance should be granted.

6. As to the sanctimonious "he's a convicted felon" argument, I've long been of the opinion that every single one of us has committed a vilation of the Penal Law. It's not that hard to do. It can be as easy as having a fake driver's license to get into a bar to drink. That little gem is called Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument 2nd and is a D Felony in NY -- which just happens to be the same level of felony as Cater was convicted of.

7. In prosecution, I've always taken the approach that each victim and each defendant should be treated fairly under all the facts and circumstance. I've prosecuted murderers, rapists, and all sorts of deviates and was happy to put them in prison for as long as possible. With all that, if you believe in the system, and I do, Cater deserves a second chance. If he is sincere and convinces SU of that, I hope it's at SU. If not, I'll hope that he'll be a great success at some other school

Wow. Great post.

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[MadNY3]

As an add-on to a five page thread, this might not get read, but here goes:

My perspective is that of a prosecutor with a reputation for being very aggressive pursuing violent felonies. That doesn't make my opinion more valid, just put out there to give you an idea where I'm coming from. Some thoughts:

1. Can't compare Sales v. Cater outcome. Sales' brother fell on his sword for his brother. Sales' charges got dismissed. Whatever suspicions you might have, the system did its job and the result should be respected.

2. Cater was lucky not to end up with a violent felony since he actually entered a residence which is a Burglary 2nd. Having said that, and without knowing all the facts, a Burglary 3rd conviction with state prison is a fairly stiff outcome under all of the facts and circumstances.

3. Cater went to a shock camp which is the DOCS equivalent of a military boot camp. It's a great program and I've yet to see someone go through the program who isn't better off upon there exit. Every word out of their mouth is "sir, yes sir" and they are ready to make a new start. The problem is that there usually isn't a "new start". Instead it's back to the same non-existent support system.

4. This is a critical time for Cater since he needs to get back into a sound support system like existed at Syracuse. Yes, he blew it once, but that doesn't mean that Syracuse should wash its hands of him. To me, when you recruit a player you make a commitment to him and he makes one to you. While he didn't live up to his commitment, I think the nobler thing to do is to take him back. You don't give up on a family member without careful thought and consideration. (And I could care less how good he is at football. My opinion would be the same even if he was a walk-on practice player.)

5. We send people to prison to deter, to punish, and to rehabilitate. As a society we decide how much time fits a particular crime. Cater did his time. He should be allowed to pursue a second chance at SU. I'll leave it to HCDM and the University whether that second chance should be granted.

6. As to the sanctimonious "he's a convicted felon" argument, I've long been of the opinion that every single one of us has committed a vilation of the Penal Law. It's not that hard to do. It can be as easy as having a fake driver's license to get into a bar to drink. That little gem is called Criminal Possession of a Forged Instrument 2nd and is a D Felony in NY -- which just happens to be the same level of felony as Cater was convicted of.

7. In prosecution, I've always taken the approach that each victim and each defendant should be treated fairly under all the facts and circumstance. I've prosecuted murderers, rapists, and all sorts of deviates and was happy to put them in prison for as long as possible. With all that, if you believe in the system, and I do, Cater deserves a second chance. If he is sincere and convinces SU of that, I hope it's at SU. If not, I'll hope that he'll be a great success at some other school

 

[MadNY3]

That is a very impressive, credible reply.

I do not want Cater back at Syracuse, but commend the thought behind the passion behind the possibility of it.

 

[javadoc]

As an add-on to a five page thread, this might not get read, but here goes:

Fantastic, memorable post. I hadn't made up my mind one way or another, but you persuaded me. If the players are OK with it, I am OK with it.

 

[bnoro]

Appreciate that well thought out post. However, my counterpoint can be summed up fairly concisely:

To Marrone, stealing is his number 1 violation of trust. He can't stand thieves, hence Hunt's suspension for the whole spring. Cater stole from a teammate, and not only a teammate but a team captain. He might get a shot elsewhere, but it won't be at SU. There's no way Marrone would let him back on, no way Nassib would let him back on, and no way a team, put to a vote would let him back on, especially since half the class he knew is no longer on the hill.

Good luck to Malcolm, and don't blow your 3rd (?) chance...

 

[tipphill]

Wow. Great post.

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the system as you say is not perfect and i believe in most cases favors the criminal and repeat offenders rather than the victims,including the bogus extent of plea barganing.that is just my opinion.syracuse is not meant to be every students primary support system. we didn't owe cater anything more than an education,with support due to his playing football.i would never put the other players in a position to decide the "fate" of cater, as this is an unnecessary burden and responsibility that has nothing to do with team focus.his return would be nothing short of a total disaster for the team. i agree that a second chance is warrranted but not at su. in fact i believe it would be to caters advantage to go elsewhere. he liked rutgers. people get fired from jobs for stealing,they are not rehired. he is young and i hope hcdm can assist in getting in somewhere for the second (and as far as we know,based on his problems in h.s.)probably 3rd chance.
su has moved on w/o him,no need to bring back a ghost,and burden any players or staff with guilt feelings---move on---

 

[orangejunkie]

Doubt SU will let him back in, but I for one would like to see it. Marrone is staking his reputation and that of the University on running a tough love squeaky clean program. That is what makes me doubt they would allow him back. Outside of his offense, they have a year of seeing what kind of kid he is. If they liked him before the incident, than why not give him a second chance. That is assuming they are confident that he has turned his life around. They knew when they recruited him that he had some major issues. He had come from a group home for juvenile delinquents.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Playing devil's advocate here a little do we know that he will actually officially have a felony on his record? I'm no expert on the legal system and I'm not sure what the terms were to his conviction and plea but if a first time offender (this prob isn't the case depending on his juvie record and juvie time he already did) he may have been able to apply for a COD or get it dropped down to misdemeanor for good behavior, etc even though initially it was a felony.

Also, he served his time in a shock camp. I recall that when these types of prisons first became popular, they were specifically designed to not only allow sentences to be shortened, but if completed successfully, some young offenders would have their convictions taken off their record. I don't know if that's still the case (shock programs have definitely expanded since then), nor do I know enough about Cater's priors to guess if he could receive that kind of treatment though.

 

[bnoro]

Doubt SU will let him back in, but I for one would like to see it. Marrone is staking his reputation and that of the University on running a tough love squeaky clean program. That is what makes me doubt they would allow him back. Outside of his offense, they have a year of seeing what kind of kid he is. If they liked him before the incident, than why not give him a second chance. That is assuming they are confident that he has turned his life around. They knew when they recruited him that he had some major issues. He had come from a group home for juvenile delinquents.

He stole from his teammates. Not sure what people aren't getting about this. That's the ultimate breach of trust as a teammate.