NBA Thread 2022-23 Season

[Day2]

I can’t remember who talked about D. Russell not even being an upgrade over Westbrook and this thread is going fast with the trade activity so I don’t feel like looking for it, but….I don’t get it? D. Russell’s offensive numbers are outstanding this year?

Our D is going to be some BS anyway other than Davis, so we might as well try to outscore teams? D Russ is a significantly better shooter than Russell Westbrook.

I think we improved our chances to make the playoffs, and if we get in I think we’re significantly more dangerous as we’re now deeper and should be far better offensively.

While Russell’s a better fit than Westbrook, I don’t think the Lakers improved much at all.

An underrated aspect of the deal is the Lakers prevented the Clippers from acquiring two of their PG targets: Russell and Conley. On the other hand, they paved the way for Westbrook to sign with the Clips. If that move backfires…a rare stealth move for the Lakers FO.

 

[OrangeDW]

While Russell’s a better fit than Westbrook, I don’t think the Lakers improved much at all.

An underrated aspect of the deal is the Lakers prevented the Clippers from acquiring two of their PG targets: Russell and Conley. On the other hand, they paved the way for Westbrook to sign with the Clips. If that move backfires…a rare stealth move for the Lakers FO.

Not just a better fit….he’s better offensive player. He’s averaging 17 and 6 and shooting 46% and 39% from 3. And Beasley and Vanderbilt can play too. Definitely rotation guys.

How is upgrading one rotation guy and adding two others that are better than the incumbents not improving?

Also, if you’re wrong on this - you’re eating Sbarros?

 

[jncuse]

As far as I can tell, Wall has a team option for next year. Gonna guess Houston won't be picking that up

That makes sense - didn't realize there was an option.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

That makes sense - didn't realize there was an option.

Wall is never setting foot in H town save for as a visiting player

 

[Day2]

Not just a better fit….he’s better offensive player. He’s averaging 17 and 6 and shooting 46% and 39% from 3. And Beasley and Vanderbilt can play too. Definitely rotation guys.

How is upgrading one rotation guy and adding two others that are better than the incumbents not improving?

Also, if you’re wrong on this - you’re eating Sbarros?

I didn’t say they didn’t improve. I said they didn’t improve that much. In my view, they’re still finishing last in the division. I’ll eat Sbarro if I’m wrong…as long as they have dairy-free cheese.

 

[OrangeDW]

I didn’t say they didn’t improve. I said they didn’t improve that much. In my view, they’re still finishing last in the division. I’ll eat Sbarro if I’m wrong…as long as they have dairy-free cheese.

I say:
floor: battling for play in game right to the last week.

Ceiling: putting a scare in round 2 opponent.

It’s 3 guys better than who they replaced in the rotation, and doesn’t sacrifice anything long term.

Can realistically finish last in the division and still have the 7th or 8th best record…

 

[Day2]

I say:
floor: battling for play in game right to the last week.

Ceiling: putting a scare in round 2 opponent.

It’s 3 guys better than who they replaced in the rotation, and doesn’t sacrifice anything long term.

Can realistically finish last in the division and still have the 7th or 8th best record…

While you never asked, I never said the Lakers would miss the playoffs, only that they would finish last in the division. Just want to make that clear.

Including the Hachimura trade, six players went out and six players came in.

OUT
Westbrook
Bryant
Beverley
JRA
D. Jones
Nunn

IN
Russell
Bamba
Beasley
Hachimura
Vanderbilt
Reed

Westbrook accounted for a lot of production. Coming off the bench, he wound up performing above expectations, despite being a poor fit overall. Russell’s an upgrade because of what he represents for the first unit. The bench will suffer, though.

Bryant is probably better than Bamba. Beasley is better than Beverley, especially with this team. Hachimura is definitely better than JTA, although the hype train makes him sound like the love child of Kuzma and THT. Vanderbilt is better than Jones, but how much is he going to play? Bryant wanted out because his role diminished after Davis came back. There aren’t enough for Bamba, Hachimura, and Vanderbilt. As for Nunn and Reed…who cares?

So yeah, the team is a little better, just not enough to move the needle.

As far as long term outlook goes, a lot of these guys - including Russell - are going to be rentals if the Lakers don’t want to pay the repeater tax. These moves feel like an effort to re-energize the fan base. I think the end result will be about the same.

 

[OrangeDW]

While you never asked, I never said the Lakers would miss the playoffs, only that they would finish last in the division. Just want to make that clear.

Including the Hachimura trade, six players went out and six players came in.

OUT
Westbrook
Bryant
Beverley
JRA
D. Jones
Nunn

IN
Russell
Bamba
Beasley
Hachimura
Vanderbilt
Reed

Westbrook accounted for a lot of production. Coming off the bench, he wound up performing above expectations, despite being a poor fit overall. Russell’s an upgrade because of what he represents for the first unit. The bench will suffer, though.

Bryant is probably better than Bamba. Beasley is better than Beverley, especially with this team. Hachimura is definitely better than JTA, although the hype train makes him sound like the love child of Kuzma and THT. Vanderbilt is better than Jones, but how much is he going to play? Bryant wanted out because his role diminished after Davis came back. There aren’t enough for Bamba, Hachimura, and Vanderbilt. As for Nunn and Reed…who cares?

So yeah, the team is a little better, just not enough to move the needle.

As far as long term outlook goes, a lot of these guys - including Russell - are going to be rentals if the Lakers don’t want to pay the repeater tax. These moves feel like an effort to re-energize the fan base. I think the end result will be about the same.

If we’re going 1 for 1….Bryant over Bamba is the only one I’d take the guy we lost.

Some of the guys we lost have zero business being in an NBA rotation, where most of the guys we gained belong.

I agree with your overall point on Westbrook…I was actually very happy with him this year. He played his role, did his best, and still brought things to the table. Frankly, I love when former superstars are able to play their role once they’re no long that guy. But D. Russell is a better NBA player than him in 2023.

 

[Day2]

As for the Clippers, Plumlee was an important add. They’ve missed Hartenstein all year and Plumlee is a better version of Hartenstein. Gordon is the latest in a long line of aging guards (Rondo, Bledsoe, Wall) who might look OK on paper, but probably won’t work out. He’s a better defender than Kennard, though. And Jackson, for that matter. Hyland is a move for the future. I’ll be surprised if he’s a regular part of the rotation.

Obviously, they’ve set the stage for Westbrook to fill the humongous void at PG, which is even bigger now than it was before the deadline. Maybe he’s what’s been missing or maybe he’s another aging guard bust. The Clippers have to bring him in though or they get a failing grade, even if Plan B is Beverley (I don’t want him back).

 

[Fireball Jr.]

I didn’t say they didn’t improve. I said they didn’t improve that much. In my view, they’re still finishing last in the division. I’ll eat Sbarro if I’m wrong…as long as they have dairy-free cheese.

I hope — and think — you’re wrong, but, please, no Sbarro. From personal experience, it’s Italian for “projectile vomit.”

 

[Day2]

If we’re going 1 for 1….Bryant over Bamba is the only one I’d take the guy we lost.

Some of the guys we lost have zero business being in an NBA rotation, where most of the guys we gained belong.

I agree with your overall point on Westbrook…I was actually very happy with him this year. He played his role, did his best, and still brought things to the table. Frankly, I love when former superstars are able to play their role once they’re no long that guy. But D. Russell is a better NBA player than him in 2023.

Yeah, we’re really not that far apart. The roster is more of a legitimate NBA roster now. Is it truly a competitive roster, that’s the question. Do they have more talent in the starting five and/or depth-wise compared to any of the teams ahead of them? OKC, Utah, and Portland, no question. That’s only good enough for 10th, though.

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah, we’re really not that far apart. The roster is more of a legitimate NBA roster now. Is it truly a competitive roster, that’s the question. Do they have more talent in the starting five and/or depth-wise compared to any of the teams ahead of them? OKC, Utah, and Portland, no question. That’s only good enough for 10th, though.

I’m not convinced we can’t get Dallas, and we’re 100% smacking the Grizz and Kings if we get them in a series.

 

[Day2]

I hope — and think — you’re wrong, but, please, no Sbarro. From personal experience, it’s Italian for “projectile vomit.”

I haven’t had it since freshman year on the Hill. One of the first things I learned at SU was to eat anything but Sbarro.

There’s actually a location 30 minutes from here.

 

[Day2]

I’m not convinced we can’t get Dallas, and we’re 100% smacking the Grizz and Kings if we get them in a series.

Gotta get out of the play-in round first.

 

[OrangeDW]

I haven’t had it since freshman year on the Hill. One of the first things I learned at SU was to eat anything but Sbarro.

There’s actually a location 30 minutes from here.

I think I’ve only had it at the Dome - 20+ years ago and maybe at a NYS Thruway rest stop - also many years ago.

 

[jncuse]

I don't like the Lakers. Or most of the biggest market teams.

But I have to give them an A for the deadline moves. And I think they are pretty decent contenders in the West, bunched with about 6 other teams, behind the Suns and Nuggets.

At Centre - Bomba in / Bryant out is (DRAW). One is a better defender (Bamba), the other is more efficient offensively (Bryant). Although while Bomba gets blocks he also finds himself out of position in team D schemes.

At 3/4 - Hachimura, Vanderbilt in / nobody out (Clear Upgrade) : Vanderbilt is a good defender that will help in certain matchups and Hachimura is a decent bench offensive player.

At 1/2 - Russell, Beasley in / Westbrook, Beverley, Nunn out (Clear Upgrade)
- Russell is not a great PG in terms of getting others involved, despite getting a decent number of assists But he has been quite efficient this year (57% EFG, vs career 51% EFG). Westbrook is 47% EFG, much lower than Russell. And he also struggles at times as a PG in the halfcourt.
- Beasley is a good bench piece I suppose. Although would help if his shooting would step up - much lower than where he was 2 years ago.
- Beverley has a peskiness that has value in the playoffs, but the Lakers needed Bamba after Bryant wanted out.


The other thing I like for the Lakers is they are now better positioned for the offseason. With the prior supporting cast (old), they were probably going to leave themselves about $30M of cap space, they would get one player perhaps and then have the same depth issues.

Now you can resign all or some of Russell, beasley, vanderbilt, hachimura, Bamba (none who are old) plus have a full MLE since they are not using cap space in the offseason. They will be deeper in 2023/24 because of these moves.

Team next year should be better off for it.

 

[OrangeDW]

As for the Clippers, Plumlee was an important add. They’ve missed Hartenstein all year and Plumlee is a better version of Hartenstein. Gordon is the latest in a long line of aging guards (Rondo, Bledsoe, Wall) who might look OK on paper, but probably won’t work out. He’s a better defender than Kennard, though. And Jackson, for that matter. Hyland is a move for the future. I’ll be surprised if he’s a regular part of the rotation.

Obviously, they’ve set the stage for Westbrook to fill the humongous void at PG, which is even bigger now than it was before the deadline. Maybe he’s what’s been missing or maybe he’s another aging guard bust. The Clippers have to bring him in though or they get a failing grade, even if Plan B is Beverley (I don’t want him back).

 

[Fireball Jr.]

I second that emotion.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

Cole Swider sighting to start 4th quarter.

3-minute cameo. Goose eggs across the board.

 

[Melancer46]

I can’t remember who talked about D. Russell not even being an upgrade over Westbrook and this thread is going fast with the trade activity so I don’t feel like looking for it, but….I don’t get it? D. Russell’s offensive numbers are outstanding this year?

Our D is going to be some BS anyway other than Davis, so we might as well try to outscore teams? D Russ is a significantly better shooter than Russell Westbrook.

I think we improved our chances to make the playoffs, and if we get in I think we’re significantly more dangerous as we’re now deeper and should be far better offensively.

I think that was me. D’Angelo is trash. Maybe being back in LA will wake him up but he just plays like he couldn’t care less if his team wins basketball games and it shows: Minnesota was a much better team whenever Russell was on the bench in both sides of the floor. He’s seemingly going through the motions at all times.

Edit: I like that trade overall for the Lakers though. Beasley and Vanderbilt are solid pickups, and Westbrook was obviously a lost cause; D’Angelo probably is too but there’s always a chance that his 5th team is the one that finally gets him to care.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Omg .. espn just stop . Trying to stuff WNBA and women’s college hoops down my throat. Just stop . Nobody cares. I know you have a political agenda but stop trying to act like the women’s version is equivalent to the men’s . It’s not … loading the early party of sports center with this doesnt interest me. It makes me feel like you are wasting my time.

You shouldn’t be showing a women’s hoops highlight until you’ve exhausted every nba clip, including pistons at Houston

 

[chugg21]

I think that was me. D’Angelo is trash. Maybe being back in LA will wake him up but he just plays like he couldn’t care less if his team wins basketball games and it shows: Minnesota was a much better team whenever Russell was on the bench in both sides of the floor. He’s seemingly going through the motions at all times.

Edit: I like that trade overall for the Lakers though. Beasley and Vanderbilt are solid pickups, and Westbrook was obviously a lost cause; D’Angelo probably is too but there’s always a chance that his 5th team is the one that finally gets him to care.

Had this same argument with a friend that doesn't watch NBA games at all and only has name recognition and ability to look at stats. There's a reason the Wolves were willing to give up D'Angelo and picks to get Conley who is a decade older with worse numbers. Russell is exactly what you don't want as a PG, 0 leadership skills, gives no effort on defense and similar to Westbrook in that he's capable of launching a 20 foot jumper with 15 on the shot clock up 2 in the last minute.

 

[Melancer46]

Had this same argument with a friend that doesn't watch NBA games at all and only has name recognition and ability to look at stats. There's a reason the Wolves were willing to give up D'Angelo and picks to get Conley who is a decade older with worse numbers. Russell is exactly what you don't want as a PG, 0 leadership skills, gives no effort on defense and similar to Westbrook in that he's capable of launching a 20 foot jumper with 15 on the shot clock up 2 in the last minute.

The last time I watched Minnesota I was legitimately in awe by how bad D’Angelo is. It’s honestly special to watch someone reach that level of empty stats.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The last time I watched Minnesota I was legitimately in awe by how bad D’Angelo is. It’s honestly special to watch someone reach that level of empty stats.

he's one of the worst defenders in the NBA. He will knock down some 3's for the Lakers as will Beasley and that is what they need. Lakers better stay healthy and ready to make a run. There isn't much time left. Lakers definitely improved but if they lose a few more in a row at what point will LeBron just hang it up for the season and AD probably won't play 22-23 straight games

I think Conley will fit nicely at Minnesota, not a secret he was the only Jazz member that ever passed to Rudy Gobert.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don't like the Lakers. Or most of the biggest market teams.

But I have to give them an A for the deadline moves. And I think they are pretty decent contenders in the West, bunched with about 6 other teams, behind the Suns and Nuggets.

At Centre - Bomba in / Bryant out is (DRAW). One is a better defender (Bamba), the other is more efficient offensively (Bryant). Although while Bomba gets blocks he also finds himself out of position in team D schemes.

At 3/4 - Hachimura, Vanderbilt in / nobody out (Clear Upgrade) : Vanderbilt is a good defender that will help in certain matchups and Hachimura is a decent bench offensive player.

At 1/2 - Russell, Beasley in / Westbrook, Beverley, Nunn out (Clear Upgrade)
- Russell is not a great PG in terms of getting others involved, despite getting a decent number of assists But he has been quite efficient this year (57% EFG, vs career 51% EFG). Westbrook is 47% EFG, much lower than Russell. And he also struggles at times as a PG in the halfcourt.
- Beasley is a good bench piece I suppose. Although would help if his shooting would step up - much lower than where he was 2 years ago.
- Beverley has a peskiness that has value in the playoffs, but the Lakers needed Bamba after Bryant wanted out.


The other thing I like for the Lakers is they are now better positioned for the offseason. With the prior supporting cast (old), they were probably going to leave themselves about $30M of cap space, they would get one player perhaps and then have the same depth issues.

Now you can resign all or some of Russell, beasley, vanderbilt, hachimura, Bamba (none who are old) plus have a full MLE since they are not using cap space in the offseason. They will be deeper in 2023/24 because of these moves.

Team next year should be better off for it.

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