Next year’s backcourt

[Cuse1055]

Next year’s backcourt reminds me a little of the 2012 backcourt just based on the sheer number of talented options. Obviously Dion and MCW were future top draft picks coming off our bench, but when is the last time we had a backcourt with this much talent?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Triche, Dion and Scpop were much more proven than anyone on this years team outside of Judah. Right now it’s all potential. We think they’re good, but there’s a scenario where they aren’t very good.

 

[newmexicuse]

Triche, Dion and Scpop were much more proven than anyone on this years team outside of Judah. Right now it’s all potential. We think they’re good, but there’s a scenario where they aren’t very good.

I think JJ showed enough at ND to convince me that he will be good to very good. I think your point applies well to Chance and Cuffe (and Taylor and Q if they get some backcourt run).

 

[Cuse1055]

The Judah/JJ backcourt alone has the potential to be one of the best in the country, let alone the conference. Throw in Chance, who has been talked about as a future pro. Q, Cuffe and Taylor are the cherries on top.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Other than Waiters, this is a much more athletic group of guards. However, the 2012 crew were better shooters and rebounders. If this current group figures out how to shoot consistently from deep and rebound they will be very successful.

 

[NineOneSeven]

To answer your question- yes 2012 was the last time.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think JJ showed enough at ND to convince me that he will be good to very good. I think your point applies well to Chance and Cuffe (and Taylor and Q if they get some backcourt run).

JJ is athletic, but his freshmen year stats are worse than any season the 2012 guys ever put up. Frankly outside of Dion this board regularly underrates how good Scoop and Triche were. We won 27 games with them getting the majority of the minutes in the backcourt in 2011.

JJ has to improve quite a bit to get to their level.

 

[Sherman20]

I think JJ showed enough at ND to convince me that he will be good to very good. I think your point applies well to Chance and Cuffe (and Taylor and Q if they get some backcourt run).

JJ is a top 10 transfer. He averaged 11.2 ppg and is a former McDonalds All American. Yes, our backcourt is certainly less proven/experienced than 2011-12 (and even less than 2016 and 2019), but the potential is sky high, especially when you consider we have six (!) guys who could play the guard position.

 

[SUfanNC]

I just hope to hear stories 10 years down the road from this group. The Triche and Waiter stories were great. Sometimes it causes animosity at the time but when they look back hopefully it was a growing experience.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Triche, Dion and Scpop were much more proven than anyone on this years team outside of Judah. Right now it’s all potential. We think they’re good, but there’s a scenario where they aren’t very good.

True, I've got a hunch they're going to be good tho.

 

[OrangeDW]

I think JJ showed enough at ND to convince me that he will be good to very good. I think your point applies well to Chance and Cuffe (and Taylor and Q if they get some backcourt run).

Offensively JJ’s numbers weren’t a lot different than Triche’s in some seasons.

Obviously Triche was an elite defender.

 

[Orangezoo]

JJ is athletic, but his freshmen year stats are worse than any season the 2012 guys ever put up. Frankly outside of Dion this board regularly underrates how good Scoop and Triche were. We won 27 games with them getting the majority of the minutes in the backcourt in 2011.

JJ has to improve quite a bit to get to their level.

There are 4 things in his favor going into this year that watching more of his tape has me optimistic.

1- Footwork, release and arc on his shot. For JJ the percentage was down due to two main factors- consistency( which shoulder could have played a role) and quality of the pass on spot ups. He didn't play with anyone close to as good penetration wise as Judah or (likely) Chance last year. Watching his form when he hits its really a pure looking shot with good footwork to go with.

2- as noted above- playing with other guards that can get into the lane quickly and must be defended in the lane will get him better looks.

3- JJ is a 3 level scorer. He can attack from the wing on either side and has a very quick first step and a really tough to handle hesitation dribble with great ability to stop and restart. He also can finish with both hands. Uncommon gifts and thus why he is as highly rated as he is.

4- Positioning- Judah likes to really attack head on with a quick first step. Where he likes to operate from works well with JJ who likes to attack from the wing spot on either side either getting his shot off or driving. Judah driving and kicking and JJ shooting or driving where Judah vacates from makes for an effective pairing.

4a... Watching Westry- Chance can beat his man with the bounce and athleticism but really also does so with his physicality too. He actually balances out well with the other two in that he is just as dangerous in the open court but in the half court he has that ability like Gbinije to physically work his way inside to make a play getting the ball inside or out. His playmaking ability in the half court to me is what gives him the offensive edge over Bell when you pair that will JJ and Judah improving their shooting proficiency. Again positioning and utilization to see how these guys play and where they like to operate.

You could add more when you look at the tape on Quadir and Cuffe and how they also like to operate and attack from different points on the floor and being complementary too. Again this is just where you can see how things could fit together and how things all can benefit JJ and the guard group as a whole.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Is the development of Judah’s shot the key to whole season? This could be the best backcourt in the country if he can hit 34-36% from 3. The more shots Mintz hits opens the door to different lineups. Have to have shooters on the floor. Bell and Taylor can be replaced with Westery/Copeland if you have to cover Judah out to the three point line.
If he struggles to shoot you have to have a 3 point threat at the 3 sf/3rd guard spot.

 

[Cusefan0307]

There are 4 things in his favor going into this year that watching more of his tape has me optimistic.

1- Footwork, release and arc on his shot. For JJ the percentage was down due to two main factors- consistency( which shoulder could have played a role) and quality of the pass on spot ups. He didn't play with anyone close to as good penetration wise as Judah or (likely) Chance last year. Watching his form when he hits its really a pure looking shot with good footwork to go with.

2- as noted above- playing with other guards that can get into the lane quickly and must be defended in the lane will get him better looks.

3- JJ is a 3 level scorer. He can attack from the wing on either side and has a very quick first step and a really tough to handle hesitation dribble with great ability to stop and restart. He also can finish with both hands. Uncommon gifts and thus why he is as highly rated as he is.

4- Positioning- Judah likes to really attack head on with a quick first step. Where he likes to operate from works well with JJ who likes to attack from the wing spot on either side either getting his shot off or driving. Judah driving and kicking and JJ shooting or driving where Judah vacates from makes for an effective pairing.

4a... Watching Westry- Chance can beat his man with the bounce and athleticism but really also does so with his physicality too. He actually balances out well with the other two in that he is just as dangerous in the open court but in the half court he has that ability like Gbinije to physically work his way inside to make a play getting the ball inside or out. His playmaking ability in the half court to me is what gives him the offensive edge over Bell when you pair that will JJ and Judah improving their shooting proficiency. Again positioning and utilization to see how these guys play and where they like to operate.

You could add more when you look at the tape on Quadir and Cuffe and how they also like to operate and attack from different points on the floor and being complementary too. Again this is just where you can see how things could fit together and how things all can benefit JJ and the guard group as a whole.

I don’t discount any of this. JJ’s shot was a mess last year. He was a better shooter in HS. Optimistic he can turn it around, but shoulder injuries really wrecked MCW‘s shooting ability so that’s my cause for concern.

 

[Orangezoo]

Didn't want to jam it in one post but what can make this backcourt one to remember is on defense.

Westry is flat out just a really good defender. He is long and rangy as a guard but also aggressive. He closes in and uses that size to create turnovers. He is the type to get after you early in the possession and make you uncomfortable.

Judah is a little different but in a complementary way. He uses his quickness to funnel the ball handlers where he wants him to go and is absolutely elite at beating his man to the spot and instead of going for the charge he is doing so to force a bad dribble and get the steal or force a turnover. He has such a good ability to present that the ballhandler has space and then close that gap in an instant. He and Chance both have good instincts in cutting off the passing lanes playing a little free safety.

JJ has the tools to be a good defender. He will benefit from playing with two very strong mtm defenders vs playing with a bunch of guys allergic to defense at ND. Their help D was always putrid and the lack of emphasis on D was just bad. With having 4 other guards that play with a high level of intensity on that end in practice it should bring out that potential some. I do expect he will be the clear weak spot of the 3 main guards but if that means he is average vs those two being very good- that still bodes well.

 

[Orangezoo]

I don’t discount any of this. JJ’s shot was a mess last year. He was a better shooter in HS. Optimistic he can turn it around, but shoulder injuries really wrecked MCW‘s shooting ability so that’s my cause for concern.

One thing MCW waited too long to do IMHO was work on that strength. I've been pleased to see JJ looks stronger and bulked up a little because that most certainly bodes better coming off even a nuisance shoulder injury. If you watch the tape you can see just which games its bugging him vs not. He starts his shot noticeably lower when the injury was bugging him. When not it looks like it did back in HS...

 

[Orangezoo]

Is the development of Judah’s shot the key to whole season? This could be the best backcourt in the country if he can hit 34-36% from 3. The more shots Mintz hits opens the door to different lineups. Have to have shooter on the floor. Bell and Taylor can be replaced with Westery/Copeland if you have to cover Judah out to the three point line.
If he struggles to shoot you have to have a 3 point threat at the 3 sf/3rd guard spot.

JJ/Benny both being good shooters with Judah improving to that 34-36 is my first hope allowing a playmaker like Chance to start alongside. If Bell or Taylor come in and are noticeably improved all around to the effect one starts instead of Westry- that's a positive development too. I expect Benny will start but overall outside Judah and JJ those other 3 spots will be a battle and interesting to watch how things unfold.

 

[OrangeDW]

JJ/Benny both being good shooters with Judah improving to that 34-36 is my first hope allowing a playmaker like Chance to start alongside. If Bell or Taylor come in and are noticeably improved all around to the effect one starts instead of Westry- that's a positive development too. I expect Benny will start but overall outside Judah and JJ those other 3 spots will be a battle and interesting to watch how things unfold.

Haven’t really heard this mentioned as a possibility so I’m just thinking out loud….what if Westry is better than JJ, and starts at the 2, with Bell or Taylor at the 3?

Everyone seems to have JJ pencilled in at the 2, no matter what.

 

[Orangezoo]

Haven’t really heard this mentioned as a possibility so I’m just thinking out loud….what if Westry is better than JJ, and starts at the 2, with Bell or Taylor at the 3?

Everyone seems to have JJ pencilled in at the 2, no matter what.

Definitely a possibility. Chances game to me resembles more of an Andre Jackson ( with better shot mechanics that hopefully translates along with not the same level athlete). Doesn't mean this wouldn't come to fruition. Also there is the unknown of just how much better Judah is in year two. If he comes out and is torching the nets from deep to go with being better at what he already excels at then you have even more flexibility.

I'll admit talking the group as a whole is our bigger focus but Judah might just come in at a level more dominant than expected.

Also just to add but if the light goes on for Bell on D and on the boards... his shooting is already nearly elite with the 3ball and the step in mid range.

 

[Red Holzman]

For now, I'm content just being able to talk about high potential and tantalizing lineups again!

 

[OrangeinNH]

Haven’t really heard this mentioned as a possibility so I’m just thinking out loud….what if Westry is better than JJ, and starts at the 2, with Bell or Taylor at the 3?

Everyone seems to have JJ pencilled in at the 2, no matter what.

I think JJ is a much more versatile and talented offensive player at this point than the others mentioned. I think that if Westry and Starling are healthy, that the 3 guard lineup is how we’ll start most games. Westry is a much better defender and distributor than Bell. If anyone wants to YouTube their high school teams, both Starling and Westry played on teams with 3 primary ball handlers, and excelled in that setting/style. My guess is that we’ll do a lot of that here.

 

[SUbear]

For now, I'm content just being able to talk about high potential and tantalizing lineups again!

Yea, but it all depends on if these players mesh to become greater than their individual parts. At least now there is hope. I had a feeling last year the team never really meshed.

 

[General20]

JJ is athletic, but his freshmen year stats are worse than any season the 2012 guys ever put up. Frankly outside of Dion this board regularly underrates how good Scoop and Triche were. We won 27 games with them getting the majority of the minutes in the backcourt in 2011.

JJ has to improve quite a bit to get to their level.

I agree with you about Scoop being underrated but it's just not true that JJ's freshamn year stats are worse than Scoop and Triches freshman year stats.

Scoop averaged 5.5 ppg and 2.5 assists on 47% shooting and 28% from 3.

Triche averaged 8.1 ppg and 2.8 assists on 50% shooting and 40% from 3.

Starling averaged 11.3 ppg and 1.1 assists on 42% shooting and 30% from 3.

You could argue that maybe Triche had a better freshman year because he was more efficient, but Triche's efficiency didnt translate to any other year of his career and Starlings freshman efficiency closely resembles Triches career efficiency. And Starling averaged more ppg ad a freshman than either Triche or Scoop averaged for their career. If either Triche or Scoop were asked to take on the usage Starling did as a freshman, their efficiency would have been lower than his, probably considerably so. And that doesn't factor in that Starling was playing through a shoulder injury.

I think Starling has the potential to lead the ACC in scoring.

 

[OrangeDW]

I agree with you about Scoop being underrated but it's just not true that JJ's freshamn year stats are worse than Scoop and Triches freshman year stats.

Scoop averaged 5.5 ppg and 2.5 assists on 47% shooting and 28% from 3.

Triche averaged 8.1 ppg and 2.8 assists on 50% shooting and 40% from 3.

Starling averaged 11.3 ppg and 1.1 assists on 42% shooting and 30% from 3.

You could argue that maybe Triche had a better freshman year because he was more efficient, but Triche's efficiency didnt translate to any other year of his career and Starlings freshman efficiency closely resembles Triches career efficiency. And Starling averaged more ppg ad a freshman than either Triche or Scoop averaged for their career. If either Triche or Scoop were asked to take on the usage Starling did as a freshman, their efficiency would have been lower than his, probably considerably so. And that doesn't factor in that Starling was playing through a shoulder injury.

I think Starling has the potential to lead the ACC in scoring.

Triche playing alongside 23 year old studs in Rautins and Johnson was certainly a better situation than the slop JJ played with at ND.

JJ should benefit greatly from playing with Judah, IMO.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The Judah/JJ backcourt alone has the potential to be one of the best in the country, let alone the conference. Throw in Chance, who has been talked about as a future pro. Q, Cuffe and Taylor are the cherries on top.

People are sleeping on Cuffe. If he's back to full health, he's going to play.
Next year (i.e., 2024-25), he'll probably be our starter at PG.