NFL Thread - 2019

Cusefan0307

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I am saying maybe teams should stop trying to draft franchise QBs and instead just take guys expecting that they will get 2-3 solid yrs and hope it times up with the team being good, in the long run it would be way cheaper. mayfield looks awful right now. as much as the Jags Kid looked good he lost the game with bad plays.

Maybe you wont get 16 solid games from these kids with this style of offense, So maybe you need to draft 2-3 of them and plug someone else in when its going bad like you do in other sports. instead of spending 20-30 million a yr you spend 5 and you get 3 shots at it. Allen in carolina another example. a ton of money on Cam and an over looked kid is doing better short term..

its the NE model they use everywhere but QB..
Rookie QB's don't get that kind of money anymore. Mayfield makes 8 million a year. Cam is an entirely different story. He's an established guy that's been hurt/ineffective and already made his money.

Goff was absolutely atrocious his first year, everyone wrote him off and then McVay came in and suddenly he looked like an MVP candidate. Coaching is just as important.

Minshew put up 27 points the other day. The defense lost that game more than he did. You want to wait until round 5 to pick someone I would say good luck. Tom Brady was picked 20 years ago. Every team is drafting these guys earlier and earlier each year.
 

upperdeck

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Goff is not an elite QB either. Mayfield was a high draft pick.. I get they afraid to play the game but you have to wonder if getting qbs 3-4-5 rd isnt a better value.
 

Bayside44

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Gotta give you credit. You stayed consistent on Dak.
BTW do the Giants take over the Redskins stadium for road games?
That stadium yesterday was 75/25 Patriots fans in FedEx yesterday.
Redskins were using a silent count inside their own 5.
Yes to Giants taking that place over.
 

ForCuseSake

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Rookie QB's don't get that kind of money anymore. Mayfield makes 8 million a year. Cam is an entirely different story. He's an established guy that's been hurt/ineffective and already made his money.

Goff was absolutely atrocious his first year, everyone wrote him off and then McVay came in and suddenly he looked like an MVP candidate. Coaching is just as important.

Minshew put up 27 points the other day. The defense lost that game more than he did. You want to wait until round 5 to pick someone I would say good luck. Tom Brady was picked 20 years ago. Every team is drafting these guys earlier and earlier each year.
First round rookie QBs get exponentially more in guaranteed cash than they used to. This is the bigger driver of why many of them play (too) early than in previous eras.

1999 -- Tim Couch rookie deal = 7 years/$48M; $12.25 guaranteed (signing bonus)
2009 -- Matthew Stafford rookie deal = 6 years/$72M; $41.7M guaranteed
2018 -- Baker Mayfield rookie deal = 4 years/$32.7M fully guaranteed + $21.9M signing bonus (~$54M guaranteed)

Franchises that invest big money on first round QBs must play them early.
 

IthacaBarrel

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First round rookie QBs get exponentially more in guaranteed cash than they used to. This is the bigger driver of why many of them play (too) early than in previous eras.

1999 -- Tim Couch rookie deal = 7 years/$48M; $12.25 guaranteed (signing bonus)
2009 -- Matthew Stafford rookie deal = 6 years/$72M; $41.7M guaranteed
2018 -- Baker Mayfield rookie deal = 4 years/$32.7M fully guaranteed + $21.9M signing bonus (~$54M guaranteed)

Franchises that invest big money on first round QBs must play them early.

The problem with Mayfield is he runs his mouth and won't stop. The other soph QB's have all certainly had their ups and downs and verdict is still out but Mayfield has a bulls eye on him this year and he is being exposed
 

ForCuseSake

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The problem with Mayfield is he runs his mouth and won't stop. The other soph QB's have all certainly had their ups and downs and verdict is still out but Mayfield has a bulls eye on him this year and he is being exposed
Yeah, I'm not arguing for or against Mayfield (couldn't care less either way).

Just saying first round QBs playing early has more to do with the cash invested in them than sports media's hot take culture.
 

Cusefan0307

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The problem with Mayfield is he runs his mouth and won't stop. The other soph QB's have all certainly had their ups and downs and verdict is still out but Mayfield has a bulls eye on him this year and he is being exposed
I missed the signing bonus part. That said it was getting way out of control and finally reached 2010 levels last year. They re-wrote the rookie deals after 2010 in the CBA when Sam Bradford was drafted.
 

IthacaBarrel

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Yeah, I'm not arguing for or against Mayfield (couldn't care less either way).

Just saying first round QBs playing early has more to do with the cash invested in them than sports media's hot take culture.

yeah I understand my thing with the second year Qb's is lets see where they all are after year 3 and draw logical conclusions from there. The three that are all playing now have all looked really good at times but have all some really bad games as well. Jackson was awful on Sunday and J Allen was atrocious versus the Pats last Sunday and has had his struggles but shows a lot of upside as well. Have to see what Darnold does when he comes back. I agree 100% with you though, one good game they are the next great QB one bad game they are a bust.
 

Newhouser

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Cleveland's problem is they have too much money tied up in WR's. I think OBJ and Landry combine to eat up 30 million. Franchises can't afford that - Mayfield has to be good enough to make receivers better.
 

FreakTalksAboutSU

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I'd still take him over any of those guys drafted last year. I wanted him to replace Brees and he had a great rookie year without those receivers. But hey it's our culture to say someone sucks when they struggle a bit.
I dont think he sucks. But I do think he was overhyped and overrated and has an attitude problem. He still may become a great player and he may become a mature player but he is neither yet.
 

ForCuseSake

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yeah I understand my thing with the second year Qb's is lets see where they all are after year 3 and draw logical conclusions from there. The three that are all playing now have all looked really good at times but have all some really bad games as well. Jackson was awful on Sunday and J Allen was atrocious versus the Pats last Sunday and has had his struggles but shows a lot of upside as well. Have to see what Darnold does when he comes back. I agree 100% with you though, one good game they are the next great QB one bad game they are a bust.
I agree that it's premature, in most cases, to write off some of the 2018 QBs.

I would put Allen at the head of the 2018 class based on the lack of talent he's had at WR and the durability displayed given the hits he's taken (some his own doing, others on his OL).

I think Rosen and Darnold are meh and Mayfield could go either way (not like Chip does).
 

FreakTalksAboutSU

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Cleveland's problem is they have too much money tied up in WR's. I think OBJ and Landry combine to eat up 30 million. Franchises can't afford that - Mayfield has to be good enough to make receivers better.
This is a good point. If one of those WRs was a 2nd tier guy but that extra cash was put into that OL they would be much better off
 

Cusefan0307

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I dont think he sucks. But I do think he was overhyped and overrated and has an attitude problem. He still may become a great player and he may become a mature player but he is neither yet.
He threw more TD's than any rookie QB in history in 13 games. I know people hate him because of his mouth and they want their QB's to shut up, but it wasn't unreasonable to expect something about the same or better this year with better weapons.

I will say this. Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers would struggle behind that line. Their left tackle is absolutely awful. Bosa made him look like he was high school level. If I was Cleveland I would be on the phone with Washington right now to get Trent Williams.
 

FreakTalksAboutSU

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He threw more TD's than any rookie QB in history in 13 games. I know people hate him because of his mouth and they want their QB's to shut up, but it wasn't unreasonable to expect something about the same or better this year with better weapons.

I will say this. Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers would struggle behind that line. Their left tackle is absolutely awful. Bosa made him look like he was high school level. If I was Cleveland I would be on the phone with Washington right now to get Trent Williams.
Agreed. I'd even go so far as to see if I could include Landry as part of it. Good WR but the team has too much $ tied up into the position as mentioned above. I could see WA jumping at the chance to pair landry with their new young WR, and it would help with the salary

That being said,it was overdoing it to think he and that team would go from 7-8-1 to winning the conference considering who else plays in it. And I dont like the kid's attitude. Play the game and dont sow the seeds of distraction. Who the heck cares what Rex Ryan says on some random tv show no one watches?
 

IthacaBarrel

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I agree that it's premature, in most cases, to write off some of the 2018 QBs.

I would put Allen at the head of the 2018 class based on the lack of talent he's had at WR and the durability displayed given the hits he's taken (some his own doing, others on his OL).

I think Rosen and Darnold are meh and Mayfield could go either way (not like Chip does).

As a Bills fan I am obviously bias but I really like Allen as a I think he has done everything they have asked him to do on and off the field. If he continues to progress and eliminate some of the crazy mistakes I still think he can be very good. The INT's and holding onto the ball too long are definite issues, they will drive you crazy but he always seems to get it done in the 4th quarter. A long long ways to go and played solid Sunday against a tough defense but still had the one errant pass that could have been a backbreaker. getting Singletary back should help. Seems that the coach and GM will be there for awhile and should only help him. I think McDermott's best attribute is he gets the guys to buy in and they do rally behind their young QB.. They have rebuilt partially, created cap space and added a ton of draft picks and McDermott has a record as of today at 19-19, really quite good. If Allen pans out the future is quite bright.

I also say this understanding that he will still have plenty of ups and downs the remainder of the year but lets see where he is at end of next year to really see where he is at. Josh has a ton of bad habits that are tough to break but a boat load of ability and yeah I am a fan, like the kid and am rooting for him.
 

upperdeck

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I think what is lost that brees/Ridgers/Brady types throw guys open.. Mayfield and these young guys came from systems where guys were running wide open and the window was huge. now they dont see windows and dont know what to do so they hold on too long. mahomes once he could scramble looked pretty avg against the Colts since he couldnt buy time every play. they all have the arm talent
 

Newhouser

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I think what is lost that brees/Ridgers/Brady types throw guys open.. Mayfield and these young guys came from systems where guys were running wide open and the window was huge. now they dont see windows and dont know what to do so they hold on too long. mahomes once he could scramble looked pretty avg against the Colts since he couldnt buy time every play. they all have the arm talent
Excellent point and is why most of those QB's never play with a dominant WR - unless they are made dominant by the QB. I think Mayfield is the least of Cleveland's problems - I think their front office decisions have been a bigger problem than Mayfield, and I think their HC needs to get a better hand on the ship.
 

bpo57

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I think the talent coming in at QB is better than ever. All the guys you have mentioned have played less than 20 games. When teams only selected drop back guys there were tons of busts. More than now actually. A lot of those guys couldn't hit the Atlantic from Nantucket. Eli Manning for example was awful at the beginning of his career.
And at the end of his career. ;)
 

STEVEHOLT

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Cleveland should go hard after Josh McDaniels or Lincoln Riley this offseason.

Their HC is completely in over his head. Nobody was hiring him as a HC last year. They could have gotten a defensive coach and left their OC with him.
Stupid decision. Tampa did the same mistake with Dirk Koetter after firing Lovie.
Josh McDaniels... whose going to want this choade .. how do you think Indy feels about not getting him. ? Thrilled I’d guess
 

Alsacs

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Josh McDaniels... whose going to want this choade .. how do you think Indy feels about not getting him. ? Thrilled I’d guess
Josh McDaniels is going to get another HC job. Either as Belichick’s replacement or with another team.
Andrew Luck retiring kinda shows McDaniels wasn’t an idiot.
 

FreakTalksAboutSU

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Is there any amount of money that would get Cowher into Cleveland? Because thats the coach that the Browns need.
 

OrangeDW

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I’m enjoying the Browns struggles as much as anyone this year, but wow is that back end of the schedule soft. Wouldn’t shock me at all if they’re like 3-6 or something and then win out and win that horrific division.

*I never had a problem with the Browns and in the past have often rooted for them, but they’ve got a couple big mouths who’ve got the Giants on their brains and in their mouths too much, so screw them.
 

Alsacs

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Top QB W/L this decade.
 

OrangeDW

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Top QB W/L this decade.
Funny how they don’t post W/L stats for like, DT’s.

Seriously, I’m curious when “W/L record” for QB’s became a thing. Feels like the last 5 years or so. I wonder if they put it on the back of football cards with the rest of their stats now?
 

Alsacs

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Melancer46 are the Bucs really capable of trading OJ Howard.
Patriots people i follow suggest the Bucs would want to deal him.
The compensation discussed is a 3rd round pick.
Can’t imagine the Bucs would want to deal him.
 

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