Thamels Has Babers Top UMD Option

[raf4488]

So Lincoln Riley is so much better than Dino? The Browns are in as bad a need of a spiritual revival as the Orange ever were, and that is what Coach Babers specializes in.

Yes, Lincoln Riley, who led his team to the CFP last year, is better than Dino at this point.

Dino is awesome and a great coach, but I think people are overrating how attractive of an option he is for other jobs at this point. He's had a good half season at the P5 level. Schools clearly above us in the pecking order like USC will be going after guys who have proven they can consistently win at the P5 level before they take a look at Dino (and I don't think Helton is going anywhere short of an implosion anyway - if they were going to fire him they wouldn't have bothered with the staff changes and he's made the Rose and Cotton Bowls already). Of course, he's not going to the NFL either.

Babers needs another very good to great season after this one to be considered for the type of elite job that would lure him from Syracuse. Suggesting he would be interested in Maryland is laughable, unless he wants to use that job as leverage. He turned down Missouri in part because of a scandal that was not as bad as what is happening at Maryland, and he'd basically be starting from the same position he was in year 1 at SU.

 

[TheCusian]

What you cite are "compelling" reasons to you, and maybe to Babers - who knows? You wear the Orange-tinted glasses more proudly than anyone (I'd imagine you'd readily acknowledge this). In addition to the two primary reasons i mentioned (money and opportunity), don't discount the other things that drive many athletes/coaches, ultra competitive people - competition, ego, ambition, etc.

Dino's been, for all intents and purposes, a mercenary coach his entire career. He has made numerous moves to advance his position over time. To get a better title. To make more money. To win more. To win at a higher level. It's sweet that you think Syracuse is swell (i think so too), but there are better jobs out there (always is), and if the opportunity presents itself, "he gone."

I proudly wear them - but in this case think I'm being objective.

It's not my personal opinion of what type of place Syracuse is. Lots of coaches have succeeded and been happy here - enough to stay for a long time. (As pointed out - Mac and Marrone both left for the NFL. P stayed and was happy here until he got fired).

It's easy to assume that *any* coach would want a better job. We have proof of that every offseason.

But what's harder to determine is that *how* much of a better job it would take to move Dino Babers from Syracuse. There is so much iceberg under the surface that it's weird to even ponder.

We play in a division with Clemson and FSU. There's not a lot of levels left to get to. He's 6-2 with 4 games left. I don't think he'd say this is as good as he envisions his offense getting. Lots of meat left on the bone, IMO.

 

[CusefanATL]

Lol

10 coaching candidates to replace D.J. Durkin at Maryland

he blocked me on twitter about 3 years ago. oh well.

 

[Millhouse]

Did you get turned down by the Newhouse school?

Are you gunning for thamel's top spot as newhousiest dork? This is right from the playbook.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yes, Lincoln Riley, who led his team to the CFP last year, is better than Dino at this point.

Dino is awesome and a great coach, but I think people are overrating how attractive of an option he is for other jobs at this point. He's had a good half season at the P5 level. Schools clearly above us in the pecking order like USC will be going after guys who have proven they can consistently win at the P5 level before they take a look at Dino (and I don't think Helton is going anywhere short of an implosion anyway - if they were going to fire him they wouldn't have bothered with the staff changes and he's made the Rose and Cotton Bowls already). Of course, he's not going to the NFL either.

Babers needs another very good to great season after this one to be considered for the type of elite job that would lure him from Syracuse. Suggesting he would be interested in Maryland is laughable, unless he wants to use that job as leverage. He turned down Missouri in part because of a scandal that was not as bad as what is happening at Maryland, and he'd basically be starting from the same position he was in year 1 at SU.

I made his point in another thread and I hate to be a broken record but...

If USC hired Dino Babers in December 2018 the reaction from Trojan fans would be not all that dissimilar to our reaction in the 24 hrs that we thought we were hiring Chris Ash.

 

[BVille44]

I proudly wear them - but in this case think I'm being objective.

It's not my personal opinion of what type of place Syracuse is. Lots of coaches have succeeded and been happy here - enough to stay for a long time. (As pointed out - Mac and Marrone both left for the NFL. P stayed and was happy here until he got fired).

It's easy to assume that *any* coach would want a better job. We have proof of that every offseason.

But what's harder to determine is that *how* much of a better job it would take to move Dino Babers from Syracuse. There is so much iceberg under the surface that it's weird to even ponder.

We play in a division with Clemson and FSU. There's not a lot of levels left to get to. He's 6-2 with 4 games left. I don't think he'd say this is as good as he envisions his offense getting. Lots of meat left on the bone, IMO.

I could not agree more.

Dino is making more than $2 million, commutes 10 minutes to work, has a private jet at his disposal for recruiting trips, plays 6/7 games in a stadium built for his offensive scheme, and has virtually no stress coaching football a Power 5 team (which can’t be said for many programs).

After moving 14 times in his coaching career and being 58 years old I would not be surprised if this was his last stop.

 

[Hoo's That]

Plank/Under Armor gave a lot of money to the conversion of Cole Field House into their IPF. He may think that donations like that are more enduring and have a better payoff than paying for coaches.

Their 247 site had at least 4 servers turned into piles of molten silicon when Plank didn't open up his checkbook to hire Mike Leach to replace Ralph "The Fridge" Friedgen and they ended up with Randy "Rangoon" Edsall. It was hysterical to read the posts of this one dude who all but had himself fitted out for his pirate eye patch when the whole thing came crashing down.

 

[kcsu]

Somebody is going to get a great coach from Temple. He would be perfect them or possibly... Us

 

[WinRoadGame]

Why is our local media so ephing stupid that they have to pick up on this article when everyone else is calling out Thamel for trolling. I mean if Goldberg and Infanti put Thamel on again like they did when Dion was hired I am going to scream.

Did you hear Thamels last interview with Goldberg and Infanti? I couldn't believe how bitter Thamel sounded towards Syracuse. People that dont think he's troll have to agree with alot of his opinions.

 

[dasher]

Are you gunning for thamel's top spot as newhousiest dork? This is right from the playbook.

I guess you did

 

[Cusefan0307]

Did you hear Thamels last interview with Goldberg and Infanti? I couldn't believe how bitter Thamel sounded towards Syracuse. People that dont think he's troll have to agree with alot of his opinions.

The one about two years ago? Yes I did. Awful and embarrassing.

 

[WinRoadGame]

The one about two years ago? Yes I did. Awful and embarrassing.

Can't remember if it was two years ago. Could have been or maybe a year. But anyways it was very embarrassing. He was trashing Syracuse bad. People keep sticking up for him. Listen, he can have any opinion he wants but to me he is a troll.

 

[DNABB5]

After moving 14 times in his coaching career and being 58 years old I would not be surprised if this was his last stop.

To reference the ceiling thread, this is it, for me. I have seen enough and heard enough to see this was the best possible hire for Syracuse and throw everything behind this "your keyboard to God's inbox"

The ceiling is seeing this guy on the sidelines for the next 10-20 years competing with the top teams in the country occasionally making a run at the playoffs.

 

[bevosu]

Washington Post article...the Babers snippet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...2607289efee_story.html?utm_term=.c4042a48ffa7

As Maryland turns the page on DJ Durkin, several coaching candidates emerge


●Among other head coaches, Dino Babers of Syracuse has generated a lot of energy this season because he generates a lot of energy in general, and because he has followed upon two 4-8 seasons with a 6-2 start and Syracuse’s first spot in the College Football Playoff rankings (at No. 19). He has assistant-coached at Hawaii, Arizona State, UNLV, Northern Arizona, Purdue, San Diego State, Arizona, Texas A&M, Pittsburgh, UCLA and Baylor, and head-coached at Eastern Illinois, Bowling Green and Syracuse, so at 57 he knows his way through a smorgasbord of situations.

 

[OrangePA]

As of last year, the perception of Syracuse football, as a program in 2018, was not good. Dino has turned it around perception wise in a big way but to say we're better than Maryland in 2018 is not accurate, national wise. All these jobs are middle class at end of day. My assumption is Dino will only jump to a upper echelon gig where he'll get paid and his gypsy assistants who follow him around. Those guys have families and if he can get each of them 400-600k at a school like USC he'll go. It's hard to keep the troops down. That's my biggest issue with SU paying up. The BoT is not gonna write blank checks for the secondary coach at SU. They may go to the extremes for Dino (and i even question that) but they will not break bank for the entire staff that puts the operation closer to red.

The school is making a huge push to become relevant again academically. That is the agenda for the BoT. the sports are important but not to the detriment of the academics

The Maryland Program is a disaster and it has been pretty much that for a number of years.

The Syracuse Football brand has remained surprisingly strong over the years despite the Robinson and Shafer years.

Sorry, but this one isn't even close.

The MD job does not compare to the SU job in my opinion.

 

[elimunelson]

The Maryland Program is a disaster and it has been pretty much that for a number of years.

The Syracuse Football brand has remained surprisingly strong over the years despite the Robinson and Shafer years.

Sorry, but this one isn't even close.

The MD job does not compare to the SU job in my opinion.

I love ya PA but our brand has taken a major hit in football. The national brand is all about the hoops program and we've become a laughingstock in football. Dino has changed it from "those guys always stink" to "hey look, Syracuse, that once proud program, is actually showing life". That's not a brand but a snicker from the media.

We need another late 80s/early 90s run to get back to where we were in, 2004. I don't think people realize how much our brand has taken a hit with GERG hire. He is in the discussion for worst hire in college football history

 

[Trueblue25]

Guys, Maryland is awful, they’ve won games but their culture is shot. There’s no argument. It’s not an up hill battle at that program. You’re staring up at the Himalaya’s. They need a Mac or AAC guy who could be given time to rebuild Marylands reputation with families and recruits. Dino sounds like a perfect guy to do that, but Syracuse is far and away in a better, further ahead position with the school ready to bust open the safe.

 

[dollarbill44]

[QUOTE="elimunelson, post: 2756844]
I don't think people realize how much our brand has taken a hit with GERG hire. He is in the discussion for worst hire in college football history[/QUOTE]
Thank God for Rutgers, am I right? Because Gerg is just a middling hire for them. They have had a few worse than him.

 

[OrangePA]

I love ya PA but our brand has taken a major hit in football. The national brand is all about the hoops program and we've become a laughingstock in football. Dino has changed it from "those guys always stink" to "hey look, Syracuse, that once proud program, is actually showing life". That's not a brand but a snicker from the media.

We need another late 80s/early 90s run to get back to where we were in, 2004. I don't think people realize how much our brand has taken a hit with GERG hire. He is in the discussion for worst hire in college football history

I think you would be surprised at the staying power or resiliency of the Syracuse Football Brand.

We bounce back from poor periods pretty quickly - we did under Marrone and we have under Babers.

Programs such as Indiana just don't have the kind of tradition we have and for that reason can't get over the hump the way we can.

 

[OrangePA]

The one about two years ago? Yes I did. Awful and embarrassing.

Why is he bitter?

What happened?

 

[TheCusian]

I love ya PA but our brand has taken a major hit in football. The national brand is all about the hoops program and we've become a laughingstock in football. Dino has changed it from "those guys always stink" to "hey look, Syracuse, that once proud program, is actually showing life". That's not a brand but a snicker from the media.

We need another late 80s/early 90s run to get back to where we were in, 2004. I don't think people realize how much our brand has taken a hit with GERG hire. He is in the discussion for worst hire in college football history

Dino doesn’t see us that way at all. He’s comparing how he sees our future (and has a pretty good idea of where we are) and ... Maryland?!?

It’s at best lateral. At best.

 

[SUskibum]

Nope. But that won't keep Dino at SU. He's a professional football coach. In my experience, unless there is a really compelling reason, most professionals will leave their current jobs for ones that afford better compensation, and better opportunities for success. We shouldnt be shocked or dismayed if Dino does the same. We should however, be prepared to say, "next man up."

You are right about coaches being professionals and most will leave for a significantly better compensation package.

However the big thing that these takes always seem to leave out is the NPV of the compensation. ie. if he can make $3.5 million here plus incentives, he can feel pretty secure about making that much (plus commensurate coaching cost inflation over time) for 15+ years and coach till he is in his seventies if he wants.

I AM SURE that Dino is Smart enough and quantitatively oriented enough to understand the pros and cons of making $1mm+ more per year for a couple years with a med/high risk of being let go during a “slump*” in year 3-5, compared to a relatively secure $50-$75mm he can make here over the rest of his career. (*PS that slump is winning 6-8 games at a school willing to pay $5mm+)

Certainty matters, particularly if you want to work another 10-20 years.

Oh and if he gets let go during one of those *slumps , he most certainly will get his pay cut by 80% and either become an OC at P5 or drop to HC at G5 and start over again to make a climb that took 55 years to begin with.

I am not saying we don’t need to get close to $4mm each for him and his staff (because we do) but I don’t think it’s set in stone that some blue blood comes in with $5-$6mm and rips him away that easy.

 

[OttoMets]

You are right about coaches being professionals and most will leave for a significantly better compensation package.

However the big thing that these takes always seem to leave out is the NPV of the compensation. ie. if he can make $3.5 million here plus incentives, he can feel pretty secure about making that much (plus commensurate coaching cost inflation over time) for 15+ years and coach till he is in his seventies if he wants.

I AM SURE that Dino is Smart enough and quantitatively oriented enough to understand the pros and cons of making $1mm+ more per year for a couple years with a med/high risk of being let go during a “slump*” in year 3-5, compared to a relatively secure $50-$75mm he can make her over the rest of his career. (*PS that slump is winning 6-8 games at a school willing to pay $5mm+)

Certainty matters, particularly if you want to work another 10-20 years.

Oh and if he gets let go during one of those *slumps , he most certainly will get his pay cut by 80% and either become an OC at P5 or drop to HC at G5 and start over again to make a climb that took 55 years to begin with.

I am not saying we don’t need to get close to $4mm each for him and his staff (because we do) but I don’t think it’s set in stone that some blue blood comes in with $5-$6mm and rips him away that easy.

I'm not convinced coaches take NPV into account, either, though. (Good post, by the way.) In general, these are a confident, often arrogant, group of people. Not casting aspersions against Dino, but a lot of people in the industry just don't think that way. They're going for the high risk and high reward over job security a lot of the time and they've grown comfortable with that.

 

[TheCusian]

Thinking about this a lot.

If it’s money - another name team can back a truck up and we’re unlikely to compete. But Dino is a different kind of dude. I don’t know that he’s driven by money entirely.

Maybe access to talent/recruiting is a bigger factor? Crowds?

But being #19 and two drives from a top ten, probably top 5 ranking is trumping a lot of the other arguments. And he *knows* this offense isn’t really effecient just yet.

 

[Cusefan0307]

he blocked me on twitter about 3 years ago. oh well.

Lucky you.