Melodramatic absolutely owning Lebron | Page 10 | Syracusefan.com

Melodramatic absolutely owning Lebron

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KingOtis said:
What's silly is that you continue to beg the question and you continue to misrepresent my point of view. What's sillier is that you think you can sway me by doing so.
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You continue to use this "beg the question" thing and you are using it incorrectly.

Here is how this works...you said:

"He's not the best player in the NBA."
"Kevin Durant is probably the best player in the league."
"Kobe Bryant is still better than James. "
"Anything James does in Miami doesn't count because he's playing second fiddle to Wade."
" I am saying that James isn't the best player in the league."
"All I said about Melo is that he's a clutch player who has never missed the playoffs."
"Playing second-fiddle to Wade..." (this might be my new favorite...after the NBA is fixed thing...and I had forgotten about it) The Heat are 12-1 without Wade.

That's enough...I'll just start there.

You have seen three sets of stats (PER, WS, WP48) that all conclude LeBron is the better player. You have been given statistical, multi-yr analysis that proves that. And you have provided no supporting data for your opinion.

Here is how this works in case you didn't get it the first time:

You make a statement or claim. That statement or claim, if refuted by fact or stat, is not "begging the question". You might want to figure out how to use it correctly before you use it. Providing data and stats to support a position is backing up a statement. Continually saying what you want to be true without backing it up is stating an opinion.

You also understand that the "begging the question" is based on the concept of logical fallacy. It's the assumption of a claim without evidence. What you have been given throughout this entire thread is: evidence.

That's why people are telling you that you look silly and stupid.

44cuse



 
Someone wake Melo up in August when its over.

He is unconscious.
 
44cuse said:
You continue to use this "beg the question" thing and you are using it incorrectly.

Here is how this works...you said:

"He's not the best player in the NBA."
"Kevin Durant is probably the best player in the league."
"Kobe Bryant is still better than James. "
"Anything James does in Miami doesn't count because he's playing second fiddle to Wade."
"I am saying that James isn't the best player in the league."
"All I said about Melo is that he's a clutch player who has never missed the playoffs."
"Playing second-fiddle to Wade..." (this might be my new favorite...after the NBA is fixed thing...and I had forgotten about it) The Heat are 12-1 without Wade.

That's enough...I'll just start there.

You have seen three sets of stats (PER, WS, WP48) that all conclude LeBron is the better player. You have been given statistical, multi-yr analysis that proves that. And you have provided no supporting data for your opinion.

Here is how this works in case you didn't get it the first time:

You make a statement or claim. That statement or claim, if refuted by fact or stat, is not "begging the question". You might want to figure out how to use it correctly before you use it. Providing data and stats to support a position is backing up a statement. Continually saying what you want to be true without backing it up is stating an opinion.

You also understand that the "begging the question" is based on the concept of logical fallacy. It's the assumption of a claim without evidence. What you have been given throughout this entire thread is: evidence.

That's why people are telling you that you look silly and stupid.

44cuse
Expand...

Well, at least you get credit for looking it up. Now if we could just get you to interpret it correctly.

Your assumption that the NBA equivalent of Sabermetrics should be taken as gospel is where you're begging the question. You referenced Hollinger and I pointed out that his numbers aren't universally recognized. Your response was to...reference Hollinger. You also took it one step further and twisted my argument into "stats don't matter." While we're on the subject of logical fallacies, that's a straw man argument. So is, "You think Paul is better than James."

Making sense yet? If you were a Pro-Lifer, you would argue that biology supports your theory that life begins at conception. You would push that as scientific fact, but it isn't. And why? Because it's not universally recognized. Neither is Hollinger, nor the people behind the other stats you mentioned. Those stats aren't used for the NCAA, Olympics or international play.
 
KingOtis said:
Well, at least you get credit for looking it up. Now if we could just get you to interpret it correctly.

Your assumption that the NBA equivalent of Sabermetrics should be taken as gospel is where you're begging the question. You referenced Hollinger and I pointed out that his numbers aren't universally recognized. Your response was to...reference Hollinger. You also took it one step further and twisted my argument into "stats don't matter." While we're on the subject of logical fallacies, that's a straw man argument. So is, "You think Paul is better than James."

Making sense yet? If you were a Pro-Lifer, you would argue that biology supports your theory that life begins at conception. You would push that as scientific fact, but it isn't. And why? Because it's not universally recognized. Neither is Hollinger, nor the people behind the other stats you mentioned. Those stats aren't used for the NCAA, Olympics or international play.
Expand...

You do recognize that WS and WP48 are not Hollinger. And that Hollinger is PER. My response was not to reference Hollinger...my response was to reference two more non-Hollinger measurement systems that demonstrate that LeBron is the vetter player.

You still have not addressed a single fact. You made a statement: it was refuted with stats/evidence. It puzzles me that you are the only person on this thread who seems to not get that fact.

You can hide behind whatever you want to hide behind. But the fact remains: you have not responded to anything with any statistical data to support your claims. There is a reason for that: it doesn't exist.

Here are the clutch stats again (so you can't argue Hollinger again):

kobe-clutch.jpg


lebron-clutch.jpg


This isn't sabermetrics. These are historical facts. Better clutch scorer, Rebounder, Assists, and shooter.

Refute the facts.

44cuse
 
44cuse said:
You do recognize that WS and WP48 are not Hollinger. And that Hollinger is PER. My response was not to reference Hollinger...my response was to reference two more non-Hollinger measurement systems that demonstrate that LeBron is the vetter player.

You still have not addressed a single fact. You made a statement: it was refuted with stats/evidence. It puzzles me that you are the only person on this thread who seems to not get that fact.

You can hide behind whatever you want to hide behind. But the fact remains: you have not responded to anything with any statistical data to support your claims. There is a reason for that: it doesn't exist.

Here are the clutch stats again (so you can't argue Hollinger again):

kobe-clutch.jpg


lebron-clutch.jpg


This isn't sabermetrics. These are historical facts. Better clutch scorer, Rebounder, Assists, and shooter.

Refute the facts.

44cuse
Expand...

I said the NBA equivalent of Sabermetrics. That includes Hollinger, win shares, and 82games.com. They are not universally recognized.
 
I dont care what any interpretation of a bunch of stats accumulated when Lebron played for the Cavs say. OMG, he hit one game winning shot from half court 5 years ago. Adios, Kobe is more clutch than Lebron.
 
KingOtis said:
I said the NBA equivalent of Sabermetrics. That includes Hollinger, win shares, and 82games.com. They are not universally recognized.
Expand...

LOL. Ok.. Three sources that draw the same conclusion isn't good enough for you because they aren't "universally recognized". That's funny.

Ok, do you agree that NBA stats are recognized universally? You may not because I gave them to you right there.

44cuse
 
longislandcuse said:
Its better than Lebron. Are you seriously trying to defend the "clutch gene" of LBJ, haha have fun with that.
Expand...

I think the point is...Kobe had made plenty of game winners, but you forget how many times he misses as well. And he has 1 assist in these situations. While making the right basketball play isn't always sexy, sometimes its the right move.
 
MyMeloMyMan said:
I think the point is...Kobe had made plenty of game winners, but you forget how many times he misses as well. And he has 1 assist in these situations. While making the right basketball play isn't always sexy, sometimes its the right move.
Expand...
Ok gotcha. I agree with that.
 
44cuse said:
LOL. Ok.. Three sources that draw the same conclusion isn't good enough for you because they aren't "universally recognized". That's funny.

Ok, do you agree that NBA stats are recognized universally? You may not because I gave them to you right there.
Expand...

No, you gave me Sabermetrics, some of which incorporate regular NBA stats.
 
KingOtis said:
No, you gave me Sabermetrics, some of which incorporate regular NBA stats.
Expand...

No, I gave you stats and you chose not to refute them. But again, all we need to know:

Your argument
1. The NBA is fixed

That says it all.

44cuse
 
44cuse said:
No, I gave you stats and you chose not to refute them. But again, all we need to know:

Your argument
1. The NBA is fixed

That says it all.

44cuse
Expand...

Chose not to refute them? I didn't even dignify them. And why? Because you're begging the question. Why should I be expected to subscribe to numbers and formulas that basketball professionals don't subscribe to? Why should anyone?

1. Tim Donaghy.
 
KingOtis said:
Chose not to refute them? I didn't even dignify them. And why? Because you're begging the question. Why should I be expected to subscribe to numbers and formulas that basketball professionals don't subscribe to? Why should anyone?

1. Tim Donaghy.
Expand...

Wow...you just can't follow along can you?

1. The NBA is fixed

We don;t need to go beyond that. That was your argument. That really does say it all.

But I gave you more than just "sabermetrics" as you want to call it. Go back. Read the post. Look at the stats, from the NBA, then come back to me.

And LOL...you don't even know what begging the question means. You've proven that. I've given you evidence. You have not provided a single fact in this entire topic. Not one. You merely post your observations. Which happen to be wrong.

But like I said...go back and refute the facts.

44cuse
 
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