QB thoughts

[Millhouse]

It's not amazing if you believe that the guy with the inside scoop (Shafer) could see just how bad Mc. . . . it was. He'd know how much of that was Hunt and how much was George and how much was Lester.

I'm not absolving Lester of all offensive issues. He was there, he was a part of that. He was also reportedly the guy making the calls the back end of Shafer's first season... Credit for that? Naw.

he brought mcf***it back for a second season. so he couldn't have thought he was that bad. you want to credit lester for making the calls at the end of the first season but when things go south in year 2, well, it's not his offense.

 

[kcsu]

McDonald was in over his head. HCSS gave him the chance based on their relationship and the fact that he is a top gun recruiter with strong ties to an area that Cuse has done well in. It just didnt work. In hindsight HCSS should have let him finish the year as mid season changes almost always end up in a cluster. Still i like the balls in making the change and it does point to the fact that something was really amiss with McDonald. Lester was the best choice given the circumstance. He also provided continuity and i tend to think that if a new outside OC had been brought in we would have lost not only Lester but possibly Doust as well as the band would be broken up and trust would be damaged. The dynamics of running a company or being a head coach dictate that each change be looked at as part of the whole. Being a head coach is a bit of a chess game, one that Shaf is learning. I like the Lester move wish that it would have come after the season but believe it will prove to be a solid call.

 

[Finwad32]

McDonald was in over his head. HCSS gave him the chance based on their relationship and the fact that he is a top gun recruiter with strong ties to an area that Cuse has done well in. It just didnt work. In hindsight HCSS should have let him finish the year as mid season changes almost always end up in a cluster. Still i like the balls in making the change and it does point to the fact that something was really amiss with McDonald. Lester was the best choice given the circumstance. He also provided continuity and i tend to think that if a new outside OC had been brought in we would have lost not only Lester but possibly Doust as well as the band would be broken up and trust would be damaged. The dynamics of running a company or being a head coach dictate that each change be looked at as part of the whole. Being a head coach is a bit of a chess game, one that Shaf is learning. I like the Lester move wish that it would have come after the season but believe it will prove to be a solid call.

The only thing I'll add, is that, he really didn't have a choice but to change OC's mid-season. There were a multitude of things happening that needed to be addressed from what I understand. He made a move that had to be made.

 

[Crusty]

The only thing I'll add, is that, he really didn't have a choice but to change OC's mid-season. There were a multitude of things happening that needed to be addressed from what I understand. He made a move that had to be made.

Such as?

 

[Finwad32]

Such as?

I'm fairly positive it's been discussed before, but, I'm not sure. Without getting into too much detail, there were rumblings that one or more position coaches were leaving if things didn't change. Also, there was an instance in the booth during one game when McD completely froze and tempers flared.

 

[javadoc]

The only thing I'll add, is that, he really didn't have a choice but to change OC's mid-season. There were a multitude of things happening that needed to be addressed from what I understand. He made a move that had to be made.

So you're saying the reasons were multiple, very multiple? Maybe Shafer needs to immerse himself more in the offense.

For the record, I haven't seen anything that thrills me behind Hunt, and even there I am nervous. Wilson has the best chance of being serviceable if the mental aspect settles down for him. I like Long's "just get it done" style of play, but he needs a year to build himself up.

If Hunt pulls an RJ Anderson on us I will be a happy camper.

 

[Crusty]

I'm fairly positive it's been discussed before, but, I'm not sure. Without getting into too much detail, there were rumblings that one or more position coaches were leaving if things didn't change. Also, there was an instance in the booth during one game when McD completely froze and tempers flared.

I heard about the freeze up but not the other. Thanks.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Some decent positive stuff is:

1. When Hunt got hurt, Lester Made him sit in the booth to learn the game and I assume the cadence in which lester calls plays.
2. Hunt has worked with a QB coach and performed well so far this offseason.
3. AJ is projected to redshirt this upcoming year, but also has been working every school break with Madei Williams in NJ

 

[TheCusian]

he brought mcf***it back for a second season. so he couldn't have thought he was that bad. you want to credit lester for making the calls at the end of the first season but when things go south in year 2, well, it's not his offense.

I've never said he doesn't deserve some blame for the end of last season. I'm just in the camp that says you can't judge his time at OC (or predict this season) solely on running another guys system with his 2-4th string QB and half an offensive line.

 

[Finwad32]

I think, ultimately at QB, we're not going to see any huge leaps in efficiency or production.

One of the problems Hunt has been consistent with is accuracy. You can water down the reads he has to make and tell him to be an athlete if the second read isn't there, but, even when he makes his read he has to put the ball where it needs to be.

By all accounts I've heard from everybody involved that he's a phenomenal young man. That doesn't make him an overly productive quarterback.

That being said, something pretty drastic would have to happen IMO for him to not be the guy behind Center. He's going to have to be extremely cognizant of ball security and limiting turnovers in order for us to get to the 7-8-9 win plateau.

It's possible to get by and win competitive games if we take care of the ball, not so much if not.

I'll always root for Hunt, he has the ability to move the chains in more than one way. Hopefully he puts that on display this year. I don't care where our yards and points come from, as long as they come.

I think the best that Hunt can be at this level is a serviceable pocket passer with better than average scrambling skills.

 

[jekelish]

A question about Lester...

Back in '13, over the final 3 or so games, there were rumors that it was actually Lester, and not McDonald, calling the plays. This includes the BC game and the Texas Bowl, when Hunt was pretty outstanding.

Has this rumor ever been substantiated? Because if that is the kind of Lester we're getting, the kind of OC who can get that production out of Hunt, then I'm definitely in the camp of "he's going to be very solid calling the offense." But otherwise, I look at the numbers last year and while I realize there were injuries, I remain somewhere between neutral and very, very, very cautiously and minimally hopeful.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

A question about Lester...

Back in '13, over the final 3 or so games, there were rumors that it was actually Lester, and not McDonald, calling the plays. This includes the BC game and the Texas Bowl, when Hunt was pretty outstanding.

Has this rumor ever been substantiated? Because if that is the kind of Lester we're getting, the kind of OC who can get that production out of Hunt, then I'm definitely in the camp of "he's going to be very solid calling the offense." But otherwise, I look at the numbers last year and while I realize there were injuries, I remain somewhere between neutral and very, very, very cautiously and minimally hopeful.

Its true. But at the same time. Numbers weren't lights out at the end of 13.

The biggest thing is even though he was calling plays (or helping) he was still using that dumbass system. Ill say this in earnest. I think this year is a bridge year anyways. We need to get to 6 or 7 wins get the bowl and have a chance for the extra win there and get Long, Womack and Dungey ready while continuing to recruit that Pos.

I think lester will put Hunt in places to succeed. IMO. The offense will look close to Hackett's we do have pieces in place for that. (Prob not as much no huddle). That offense hid a lot of what were Nassib's/and our receivers deficiencies Everyone was bagging on the spring game, but he had a couple nice throws to the TE about 20 yards down field that will open the run and the outside. and that was vanilla calling. Oh well. I am naturally optimistic before each season. I don't buy in to the negative narrative.

 

[jekelish]

Its true. But at the same time. Numbers weren't lights out at the end of 13.

The biggest thing is even though he was calling plays (or helping) he was still using that dumbass system. Ill say this in earnest. I think this year is a bridge year anyways. We need to get to 6 or 7 wins get the bowl and have a chance for the extra win there and get Long, Womack and Dungey ready while continuing to recruit that Pos.

I think lester will put Hunt in places to succeed. IMO. The offense will look close to Hackett's we do have pieces in place for that. (Prob not as much no huddle). That offense hid a lot of what were Nassib's/and our receivers deficiencies Everyone was bagging on the spring game, but he had a couple nice throws to the TE about 20 yards down field that will open the run and the outside. and that was vanilla calling. Oh well. I am naturally optimistic before each season. I don't buy in to the negative narrative.

They weren't lights out, but look at the difference in Hunt from the middle of that season to those final few games. It was night and day.

 

[Chip]

3. AJ is projected to redshirt this upcoming year, but also has been working every school break with Madei Williams in NJ

I hope he doesn't get talked into transferring to BC.

 

[Finwad32]

Its true. But at the same time. Numbers weren't lights out at the end of 13.

The biggest thing is even though he was calling plays (or helping) he was still using that dumbass system. Ill say this in earnest. I think this year is a bridge year anyways. We need to get to 6 or 7 wins get the bowl and have a chance for the extra win there and get Long, Womack and Dungey ready while continuing to recruit that Pos.

I think lester will put Hunt in places to succeed. IMO. The offense will look close to Hackett's we do have pieces in place for that. (Prob not as much no huddle). That offense hid a lot of what were Nassib's/and our receivers deficiencies Everyone was bagging on the spring game, but he had a couple nice throws to the TE about 20 yards down field that will open the run and the outside. and that was vanilla calling. Oh well. I am naturally optimistic before each season. I don't buy in to the negative narrative.

The only thing I'll add is that the offense will not look like Hackett's, especially Hack's last year. Different personnel groupings and different formationally.

I believe they do want to move at a very fast pace though. No huddle will not be a base concept though, I believe.

 

[SUskibum]

he brought mcf***it back for a second season. so he couldn't have thought he was that bad. you want to credit lester for making the calls at the end of the first season but when things go south in year 2, well, it's not his offense.

Millhouse, you are one of my favorite posters because even if I don't agree with your conclusions I can usually appreciate your logic in getting there.

In this case it is just intellectually lazy (and unlike you) to leave out the gigantic variable that changed between Lester's end of '13 performance and his end of '14 performance. Like I don't know maybe his RS Junior starting QB!

This year he should have the benefit of a RS Senior QB with 15 career starts who he coached for 2 years already including 1/2 a season spent in a booth together. I won't be surprised if Hunt's physical limitations like accuracy or touch aren't hugely improved but what I do expect is a QB who is a pro at commanding the offense and makes good decisions with the ball on a consistent basis (read: low interceptions).

 

[Millhouse]

Millhouse, you are one of my favorite posters because even if I don't agree with your conclusions I can usually appreciate your logic in getting there.

In this case it is just intellectually lazy (and unlike you) to leave out the gigantic variable that changed between Lester's end of '13 performance and his end of '14 performance. Like I don't know maybe his RS Junior starting QB!

This year he should have the benefit of a RS Senior QB with 15 career starts who he coached for 2 years already including 1/2 a season spent in a booth together. I won't be surprised if Hunt's physical limitations like accuracy or touch aren't hugely improved but what I do expect is a QB who is a pro at commanding the offense and makes good decisions with the ball on a consistent basis (read: low interceptions).

my opinion of lester is partly based on my low opinion of hunt's performance in 2013.

the only reason we pine for hunt is because the offense (with lester as QB coach and offensive coordinator*) was just about the worst in the country without him

we don't owe lester anything. if we're supposed to throw out last year, we're left looking at friggin zapruder elmhurts watchman footage and talking about quartiles in DIII

 

[Crusty]

I think Lester's offense may have a lot of formations not seen in the dome in the past decade. His D3 players ran it pretty well so I am hoping it is not a hugely difficult install.

 

[Pyle]

I think Lester's offense may have a lot of formations not seen in the dome in the past decade. His D3 players ran it pretty well so I am hoping it is not a hugely difficult install.

D3 players I would think are typically smarter than D1 players. This is based on the fact D3 doesn't offer scholarships and therefore anyone playing got into school on their own merits, didn't need prep schools, extra tutors and such. I could be way off base, but it seems logical.

 

[Crusty]

D3 players I would think are typically smarter than D1 players. This is based on the fact D3 doesn't offer scholarships and therefore anyone playing got into school on their own merits, didn't need prep schools, extra tutors and such. I could be way off base, but it seems logical.

Probably true but D1 players may have higher football IQ's. Interesting question.

 

[jekelish]

D3 players I would think are typically smarter than D1 players. This is based on the fact D3 doesn't offer scholarships and therefore anyone playing got into school on their own merits, didn't need prep schools, extra tutors and such. I could be way off base, but it seems logical.

Depends on the D3 school. A lot of them are academically inclined, but trust me, there are plenty of D3 schools with laughable academic standards that find a place for great athletes who can't get in anywhere else.

 

[Pyle]

Depends on the D3 school. A lot of them are academically inclined, but trust me, there are plenty of D3 schools with laughable academic standards that find a place for great athletes who can't get in anywhere else.

Are you saying SUNY Cortland isn't ready to apply for the Ivy league???

 

[KaiserUEO]

But his coaching tree sucks

rainbows, unicorns, magic beans and lesters offense run by lester.

got it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Probably true but D1 players may have higher football IQ's. Interesting question.

You guys are nuts. D3 players are just smaller, slower or less athletic than D1 players. That is why they are d3 players, nothing do with football IQ. Geeze

 

[TheCusian]

my opinion of lester is partly based on my low opinion of hunt's performance in 2013. the only reason we pine for hunt is because the offense (with lester as QB coach and offensive coordinator*) was just about the worst in the country without him we don't owe lester anything. if we're supposed to throw out last year, we're left looking at friggin zapruder elmhurts watchman footage and talking about quartiles in DIII

Yeah - it's okay to admit we don't have enough info to form a real solid opinion.