CJ at the 2, if Roberson is what some think?

[Orangeyes]

Love Baye? I don't know, I appreciate him but will never love his game. While you can't teach size in basketball, seems like you can't teach the guy anything else to the guy either because he is the exact player he was as a freshman. I can't think of one part of his game that makes me say, "Oh my god, I love BMK, we would be so lost without him." To me an athletic Craig Forth is just as useless as Craig Forth, was he on the national title team? Sure, we won in spite of him, not because of him. Would have won if Billy Celuck was playing center.

Dislike

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Love Baye? I don't know, I appreciate him but will never love his game. While you can't teach size in basketball, seems like you can't teach the guy anything else to the guy either because he is the exact player he was as a freshman. I can't think of one part of his game that makes me say, "Oh my god, I love BMK, we would be so lost without him." To me an athletic Craig Forth is just as useless as Craig Forth, was he on the national title team? Sure, we won in spite of him, not because of him. Would have won if Billy Celuck was playing center.

You are just wrong...how many games did you watch in 2003?

 

[Gabjon]

You are just wrong...how many games did you watch in 2003?

he was 9...its not worth your time!

 

[two3zone]

You are just wrong...how many games did you watch in 2003?

Every single one of them.

 

[two3zone]

he was 9...its not worth your time!

Come'on, I wasn't 9 I was in my mid 20s, it's my opinion, I'm sorry you disagree.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Every single one of them.

We can disagree on Craig's value to that team. But to imply he was pathetic and worthless is wrong. No 4 year starter can be referred to that way and the comment taken seriously.

 

[Gabjon]

Come'on, I wasn't 9 I was in my mid 20s, it's my opinion, I'm sorry you disagree.

Forth set great screens and was the second most physical player on that team and he did it with out fouling! This allowed Hak and Melo the space needed to do what they did. It's dirty work that doesn't show up in a boxscore. So it was Craig Forth banging with Collison all game long and fouling hard when he got beat so there were no and 1s and Collison had to earn it from the line, which he couldn't do. Collison who is still in the NBA would have owned Baye or Celuck in that game and we would have lost!! Those guys just aren't physical enough.

 

[Orangeyes]

Forth set great screens and was the second most physical player on that team and he did it with out fouling! This allowed Hak and Melo the space needed to do what they did. It's dirty work that doesn't show up in a boxscore. So it was Craig Forth banging with Collison all game long and fouling hard when he got beat so there were no and 1s and Collison had to earn it from the line, which he couldn't do. Collison who is still in the NBA would have owned Baye or Celuck in that game and we would have lost!! Those guys just aren't physical enough.

And Craig was the acknowledged defensive quarterback barking out pick warning's and defensive instructions from the backline.

 

[reedny]

Play 4 guards. And hope you can outquick and outshoot them. Noone outside of North Carolina ,that we play, if then, can matchup with that.

I agree with you. If you can't match up with that lineup (only 1 or 2 ACC teams could attempt it), then 4 guards and a center is probably the best option to face a team of 1 guard, a center and 3 forwards of that caliber.

Defensively, Gabby has it right - press the whole game. Put ball pressure on TE and immediately double the next guy who gets the ball. If they manage to get the ball to the front-court, pack it in and put a tall defender on TE. On offense, I'd tell my guards to drive and kick, and get back quickly if they miss (they're not going to get any rebounds and SU's transition game is deadly).

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

And Craig was the acknowledged defensive quarterback barking out pick warning's and defensive instructions from the backline.

My impression is that Baye was doing this last year and that's why he got so much court time. Am I wrong?-VBOF

 

[JDubbin]

haters gonna hate.

 

[br801]

This thread is growing on me and might make my all-time top 10.

 

[tee1222]

This thread is growing on me and might make my all-time top 10.

Can't tell if I love it or not so much.

Brief Summary:
CJ will play the 2.
Roberson and Grant will see plenty of run at the 5.
Chinonso Obokoh is our starting point guard.
Craig Forth = Keita.
Both are superstars.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Can't tell if I love it or not so much.

Brief Summary:
CJ will play the 2.
Roberson and Grant will see plenty of run at the 5.
Chinonso Obokoh is our starting point guard.
Craig Forth = Keita.
Both are superstars.

Obokoh starting at point? I thought he was going to redshirt? ... For the record, I don't think we would have won with Celuk instead of Forth. But Keita may have been able to get the job done.

 

[moqui]

Easy! You press! Get the ball out of Ennis' hands and see if Fair, Grant or Roberson can bring the ball out the court with a guard in their shorts. Mike is an inch shorter than Fair and he is a Guard! Roberson needs to wait his turn this year!

you wouldn't even have to press and you wouldn't have to do it the whole game . . . just force the Orange to go to their secondary ballhandler and after half a dozen empty possessions the experiment would be abandoned

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I agree with you. If you can't match up with that lineup (only 1 or 2 ACC teams could attempt it), then 4 guards and a center is probably the best option to face a team of 1 guard, a center and 3 forwards of that caliber.

Defensively, Gabby has it right - press the whole game. Put ball pressure on TE and immediately double the next guy who gets the ball. If they manage to get the ball to the front-court, pack it in and put a tall defender on TE. On offense, I'd tell my guards to drive and kick, and get back quickly if they miss (they're not going to get any rebounds and SU's transition game is deadly).

Are you serious? You are going to put a guard on Grant and/or Roberson on the blocks? You would get blitzed. Destroyed. SU would shoot over 80% from the floor.

You could try putting ball pressure on TE, except it does look like that is what he lives for. His calm demeanor is one of his strengths. So every time the other team can't turn the ball over (which I think would be surprisingly little) SU would make them pay.

I'm pretty sure this isn't what moqui had in mind. Just shows it is not that obvious. And CJ shot 47% from 3.

 

[orangefan13]

Faster guards might be able to draw a charge or two on Grant, but he is physical, tall, and explosive enough to still exploit them off the dribble some. He has the carmelo like jabstep (guards weren't on melo), and will force smaller guards to get down further to stay in front of him giving him a good look at the rim as long as he keeps his head up while dribbling. Guards would be forced to try to push him to the perimeter more out of the high post.


We would kill them on the boards with a lineup like that. Our shots would bounce near the basket. Someone like Dajuan could box out their only rebounder away from the weakside rebound at will. They would get into foul trouble awfully quick.


So much of it depends on Robersons skillset really.
Good Teams only run 3 guard lineups anyway. We could just run Grant nonstop to opponents put the defender we want guarding roberson.

JB sometimes will go strange lineups to get a lead, but then will sit back and go back to his bread and butter lieneups to keep it. JB also understands how to create a mismatch with a 3rd scorer when you have two scorers like Fair and Grant on the floor. If Roberson is noticably our 3rd best scorer able to take the pressure off ennis driving, it is likely to see all 3 on the floor together to try to get a lead.

 

[realorange]

This thread is growing on me and might make my all-time top 10.

Yeah, but I think it's growing on me like a fungus.

 

[sufandu]

I can't believe this thread is still going. Can we revisit this in March when we've all witnessed CJ NOT play any minutes at the 2?

 

[reedny]

Are you serious? You are going to put a guard on Grant and/or Roberson on the blocks? You would get blitzed. Destroyed. SU would shoot over 80% from the floor.

You could try putting ball pressure on TE, except it does look like that is what he lives for. His calm demeanor is one of his strengths. So every time the other team can't turn the ball over (which I think would be surprisingly little) SU would make them pay.

I'm pretty sure this isn't what moqui had in mind. Just shows it is not that obvious. And CJ shot 47% from 3.

The point was (as stated at the top of my post) that I have to field a team but CAN'T matchup with CJ/Roberson/Grant. If I could match that lineup player for player, then we wouldn't have a riddle to solve, would we?

So, I chose to use 4 guards and a center. One guard and the center match up. The other 3 guards have to check forwards ... and yes they would have trouble inside on D (and they'd have to double and move extremely well to give help). But on O, they would have the advantage of being able to penetrate/outmaneuver bigger players and get to the rim to score /or to hit the open guy.

The whole point of the exercise, if I understood Moqui's post correctly, was to figure out how to play the lineup he listed IF YOU DON'T HAVE the players to matchup with 3 top-quality forwards.

We won't have to wait long for the answer. There will be some games this fall where the opposing team has no choice but to try this out. So we'll see how it goes.

 

[newmexicuse]

CJ would be our 5th option @ the 2G position after Trevor, G, Buss, and BJ. It would be really pathetic if all four of the first four options flopped to the degree that JB would send his all ACC SF to the backcourt.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The point was (as stated at the top of my post) that I have to field a team but CAN'T matchup with CJ/Roberson/Grant. If I could match that lineup player for player, then we wouldn't have a riddle to solve, would we?

So, I chose to use 4 guards and a center. One guard and the center match up. The other 3 guards have to check forwards ... and yes they would have trouble inside on D (and they'd have to double and move extremely well to give help). But on O, they would have the advantage of being able to penetrate/outmaneuver bigger players and get to the rim to score /or to hit the open guy.

The whole point of the exercise, if I understood Moqui's post correctly, was to figure out how to play the lineup he listed IF YOU DON'T HAVE the players to matchup with 3 top-quality forwards.

We won't have to wait long for the answer. There will be some games this fall where the opposing team has no choice but to try this out. So we'll see how it goes.

I still don't get why you would do that. Seems like team suicide. Because SU moves CJ to the 2, you would try to guard Grant and Roberson with guards? Those guards would get absolutely destroyed on the blocks. SU would be posting them up and scoring at will.

And I also disagree that we won't have long to wait. It's unlikely CJ will play the 2 so we won't see the other team's response. And if CJ were to get a chance at the 2 it would probably be after the other 2's show they can't get the job done and after Roberson impresses.

But of the reasons for not moving CJ to the 2 - ie a sg shows improvement, JB doesn't want chemistry issues, JB wants to develop a sg for the big year '14-'15, CJ isn't good at the 2, Roberson is not Billy Owens like, JB wants to 'boeheim' Roberson to be here for '14-'15, or CJ doesn't have the handle- the idea that JB would be afraid of another team putting out a 4 guard lineup has to be at the bottom.

 

[orangefan13]

None of us know anything yet. We can wishfull think, say this or that just to hope to be right, wish for roberson to play pg, sg, or center, or wish for him to be reserved for his sophmore year. Thets just wait and see what happens.

Roberson had a nice drive in highschool, he could go behind the back through the legs crossover. He had excellent speed without the ball, and has a real sweet stroke. He shot midrange and from outside alot in aau ball, enough to be a SF with pf abilities or vice versa.

You play to be the best team you can. And if Playing Roberson is the best option then you go with it.

 

[orangefan13]

Heck I would like to see a lineup of Roberson, BJ, Grant, Fair and Rak early in the season as well. Forget ball handling and presses and strategy I just want to see the 5 forwards. Especially if BJ and Roberson show some dribble.

 

[realorange]

None of us know anything yet. We can wishfull think, say this or that just to hope to be right, wish for roberson to play pg, sg, or center, or wish for him to be reserved for his sophmore year. Thets just wait and see what happens.

Roberson had a nice drive in highschool, he could go behind the back through the legs crossover. He had excellent speed without the ball, and has a real sweet stroke. He shot midrange and from outside alot in aau ball, enough to be a SF with pf abilities or vice versa.

You play to be the best team you can. And if Playing Roberson is the best option then you go with it.

The only way that Roberson is going to play is as a sub for either CJ or Jerami. :bang: