Look How Many Bench Players NC State has on the court

[Charco]

Lasting Longer is simply that. Like if we were to get in a ring and you survived to round 2 with me. You did make it to the same round, but after I pounded your face in and you submitted to the better man, you indeed would be the loser in the last longer.

Oh, you sound so tough!

Unfortunately you completely misunderstand betting. A last longer bet in the NCAAs would look at what round the teams lasted to. Not the actual date and time they were playing. If they both lose in the same round, nobody wins (regardless of if one team is actually playing later into the night). But it's adorable that you think that's how it works.

 

[The2-3PWN]

I've been a fan since 1972. That is 15 more years than you, if you can count that high. And the topic of JB and his short bench has been around for years. I think we just have figured at this point, even if a short bench seems strange, that JB knows what he is doing. He is the coach with the 2nd most wins in college basketball. So as much as this topic gets discussed over and over and over and over, I think most of us on here have learned to trust that JBs record shows he may know more than we all do. Also I believe the 2/3 zone saves a bit of energy over what other players expend. I also think with the history of the short bench, most players who come to SU know that they may not see much of the floor in the 2nd half of their Freshman year. If they have THAT much talent, tell them to talk to Dion Waters. He'll explain that they are not wasting their talent. They can catch up and get drafted in the lottery still after their Sophomore year.
Let's talk about things that this team CAN do. How to shoot better. How to get their confidence back. Not beat a dead horse anymore. We all get tired when you come on here and do that.

MOAR Attacks PLS!

And Dion would have left if his mom didnt beat his ass and make him stay

 

[wadegarrett]

MOAR Attacks PLS!

And Dion would have left if his mom didnt beat his ass and make him stay

Left to go where? He would have been a 2nd rounder at best if he entered the draft after his freshman season. He definitely wasn't going to transfer and sit out a year.

 

[Czar]

Left to go where? He would have been a 2nd rounder at best if he entered the draft after his freshman season. He definitely wasn't going to transfer and sit out a year.

Knowing Dion he would have been just as happy in the D-League or Europe.

Also this thread derailed hard into people just bashing each other. This is sad. It's like a holy war.

 

[pearl31]

Knowing Dion he would have been just as happy in the D-League or Europe.

Also this thread derailed hard into people just bashing each other. This is sad. It's like a holy war.

yeah, that's what happened in this thread

 

[MCC]

I enjoy the site. I appreciate what you have built here. I have been a Syracuse Basketball fan since 1987. I was 5 and went to my first game. I am from the area.
I played professional baseball so I am not your average keyboard warrior.

Don't tell me: you drive a Dodge Stratus?!

 

[llandz]

I pretty much never attack. But I am psyched for the tournament to start. And we have a team that went 25-0. And 25-0 is 25-0. Sometimes the calls go your way, and sometimes they don't. That is part of the game. So you can't take any of our wins away.
I am just tired of the same discussions over and over. This is one discussion that has gone on for years. It is a waste of time to even have it. Do you really think this discussion is going to make a difference in any way? We all know that JB plays a short bench. Once again the players who come into our program are aware of it. It does not come as a surprise to them when they get here. They come anyways. Look at how well all of those Kentucky freshman who played this year did. It is not about the playing time, but about developing the player to your system. Our system is a little more complicated. It takes the freshman a little longer to adjust. Yes, I am sure some kids come in and think they know it all. You seem to have inside knowledge about all sorts of former players. I wonder how many players such as J Sutherland, who you used as an example, had such a poor college experience of attending a final four their last season? He must have really suffered. He got drafted, and at that point he could have further developed. It is sometimes on the player to take the next steps. J Sutherland is one of my favorite players of all time. He certainly earned the fans respect and love. I don't think he made out too bad. There are many talented college players that do no make it in the NBA.

 

[AZOrange]

IMO the overall record is sort of irrelevant if you finish out 2-5 with a pair of those losses coming against the 2 worst teams in your league.

Since we beat Duke in the Carrier Dome, we've played at the level of an NIT team. For 25 previous games we played at the level of a Final 4 team. I'm hoping (praying) it all turns around back to the F4 caliber team we were, but I don't have a lot of confidence. I honestly think this team just hit a wall. Cooney and Fair both have dead legs right now.

Mason, with all due respect I don't think it's fair to say after feb 1 we were an nit team...I mean we played well at duke, clemson, fl state etc and also had some close games at the beginning...what I am saying is that no one in their right mind could say this has been a wasted year or poor job by jb based on the result. Did it finish how we wanted? No. But the start also exceeded expectations and the end record was great.

 

[AZOrange]

I'm a positive poster, I don't bash the players or the coach. I'm a very optimistic person. I love this team just like everyone on this board. The anticipation till game day drives me nuts. I believe this team has the talent to go very far and they proved many times what they are capable of. I also respect reading everyone's opinions on this board whether if I agree with them or not. I don't like people who continue to bash over and over again, and the OP could be one of those posters and as this thread went on it did get alittle too much, I agree.

I think I was hopeful that some of our starters would get some breathers as the season went on. I was hopeful that some of our bench guys would progress a little more to be able to play a few minutes a game to give our starters quick breaks to keep their energy level up. I'm not going to say that tired legs has caused this late season losing, but it is something I have questioned.

One thing I do know now is that those loses don't really matter now, and what does matter is how they play from this point on. Go Orange, time to play thier best basketball and make a run.

I get it. I do. But we don't watch these guys every single day, nor understand the nuances of why they sit. So certain posters blame the coach. Should roberson play more? Maybe. But I trust the coach that there's a reason he isn't (and I don't think it's his 2 min appearances)

 

[Marsh01]

I played professional baseball so I am not your average keyboard warrior.

So what does that have to do with being a basketball expert?

 

[AZOrange]

Cool troll. I get it. You are used to short benches out there with Miller. Guess when Ashley went down Gabe York wasnt ready because he never played...

What?

 

[Marsh01]

No. A last longer bet would simply mean the team who is still playing is the winner.

If Syracuse loses before NC State I win. Time and dates are a factor. When handicapping a potential risk/reward scenatio you have to account for ignorance like you just displayed and then lay odds to offset it so you dont feel bad when you scoop a bet from some mope like you

So you win the bet because NC State would play after the Su/Ohio State game?

Yea thats really going out on a limb. Put up $5000 that NC State makes it past Louisville/Syracuse doesnt make it past Ohio State and you have a bet.

 

[AZOrange]

So you win the bet because NC State would play after the Su/Ohio State game?

Yea thats really going out on a limb. Put up $5000 that NC State makes it past Louisville/Syracuse doesnt make it past Ohio State and you have a bet.

I have a feeling this is one of our "old" friends...

 

[orangedave]

So what does that have to do with being a basketball expert?

But Marsh, you're not giving him credit for growing up with Matt Gorman and all the hoops coaching knowledge Matt imparted to him.

 

[Henny & Coke]

Some thoughts on the short bench issue & this thread in general:

- Yes, this topic may be "beating dead horse" for some, but not for everyone. Sick of discussing it, no need to read the thread.

- On that topic, whenever I hear someone argue "That's the way we've (or "that person") always done it!" red flags go off, and they should for others too. That is not a valid reason for doing anything. Any good business, organization, person, ect should always be challenging the status quo, evalutating current practices to make sure they are still best practices, and if not, changing them.

- 7 players logged court time for Syracuse in our last two games (NC State and FSU). Other teams play anywhere from 7-10 players each game, it seems from doing some research.

- Yes, DaJuan Coleman's injury complicated this short bench issue, but other teams deal with injuries as well.

- Ron Patterson cannot seem to find the court for Syracuse this year, even though our 2 main guards play high minutes each game (Ennis - 35.6 mpg, Cooney 32.5 mpg). [FOR COMPARISON: MPG data for other good guards on various teams - Scottie Wilbekin (SEC POY) 33.8, Russ Smith 28.7, Shabazz Napier 34.9, TJ McConnell 31.9, Quinn Cook 29.6, Ryan Arcidiacono 31.0, Marcus Paige 35.6, London Perrantes 29.4, Gary Harris 32.3, Naadir Tharpe 29.8, Wayne Selden Jr 29.5, Andrew Harrison 31.1, Aaron Craft 34.3]

Ron Patterson is not a "normal" freshman either. According to SU Athletics website, Patterson is 21 years old, having spent an extra year at Prep School (Brewster Academy) prior to joining SU. Yet, he still cannot see any meaningful minutes this year.

- And if we cannot get our Freshmen players ready for minutes this year, when Syracuse had the benefit of starting practice early & playing 4 exhibition games in Canada, then when can we? This year should have been perfect opportunity.

- Roberson, the #31st ranked recruit (ESPN), did not have benefit of playing in those Canadian games, but to think that Jerami Grant was suffering with back pain and we STILL could not find time for such a highly ranked prospect to get some game experience, seems pretty shocking to me.

- Lastly, simply pointing to results (great record, year after year) to justify the process also isn't a great way to really evaluate something. Yes, our record has been great, exceptional even, over last 5 years, especially considering no real year-to-year dropoff when losing so many good/great players each year. BUT, how do we know that 1 or 2 "issues" or "inefficiencies" aren't preventing us from being/becoming even better? We don't know that for sure.

 

[longislandcuse]

This thread is kind of all over the place but I wanted to chime in on the topic that we have a better starting lineup than NC State. We do, im not disparaging that but even TJ Warren gets a breather and he might be the best non-frosh player in the country. I'd argue Ralson Turner is much better than Cooney right now. Vandenburg and Anya are better than Rak and Keita right now. Hell, even Tyler Lewis played a brilliant floor game last night, Ennis is better than him by miles but to act like our starting lineup *right now* is infinitely better than theirs is wrong.

If we can regain our 25-0 mojo than I could care less what we do, play the same 5 all game for all I care, but until then these topics are fair game and the ardent JB supporters need to stop acting like the guy never makes a mistake. Regular season records dont mean that much when youre a program of our stature. We shouldnt have to wait another decade to go to the Final 4 with the talent, fanbase, brand and facilities we have year in/year out.

 

[orangejunkie]

I think almost all SU fans would like to see more from the bench guys. It does seem that other schools get contributions from freshman that are not as highly recruited as our kids. Not sure the NCAA's are the time to go that route though. Should have happened over the course of the season. Not a great idea to throw a Patterson or BJ out there at this point in the season.

 

[DoctorBombay]

So which one of you JB Homers wants to bet me in a "Last Longer" bet? I'll take NC State and you can have the wasted talent team -(thanks to JB).

The team that lasts longer in the tournament is the winner. I will bet you $500. We can escrow with one of the mods. I will Paypal it to him right now.

Basically I am betting you that Cuse cannot beat Ohio State or Dayton(assuming they get past WM) and NC State will beat St.Louis.

Anyone wanna stop chirping and start place some counterfeit Obama Bucks on it? Lets go.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

They aren't necessarily as good as the starters but they play key minutes. We have none of this.

BJ Anya and Cat Barber would get minutes here as well. None of our players who don't play are that good, right now.

 

[br801]

Also this thread derailed hard into people just bashing each other. This is sad. It's like a holy war.

Nah, the OP came in here with his syracuse.com social skills looking for some attention. And he got it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Mason, with all due respect I don't think it's fair to say after feb 1 we were an nit team...I mean we played well at duke, clemson, fl state etc and also had some close games at the beginning...what I am saying is that no one in their right mind could say this has been a wasted year or poor job by jb based on the result. Did it finish how we wanted? No. But the start also exceeded expectations and the end record was great.

I don't think Mason or anybody is saying this is a wasted season. I actually think it's an amazing accomplishment considering the flaws on the team, shooting problems, injuries, limited bench, etc. It is completely accurate and justified not to feel optimistic moving forward. I think it's absolutely accurate to say we have been an NIT team since Duke. Well, since @Duke. That 1H offensive collapse killed us @Duke. No idea what to expect moving forward and that's obviously an uneasy feeling.

 

[Henny & Coke]

BJ Anya and Cat Barber would get minutes here as well. None of our players who don't play are that good, right now.

You know for a fact that BeeJay Anya right now is better than Tyler Roberson?

BeeJay Anya in 32 games: 11.8 MPG, 2.2 PPG, 2.0 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 0.5 TPG

Tyler Roberson in 19 games: 8.1 MPG, 2.1 PPG, 1.8 RPG, 0.2 BPG, 0.4 TPG

I don't know I can make such a definite determination as you.

 

[CorduroyG]

Patterson is 21???

 

[OttoMets]

I don't know what he was predicting, but I know I wasn't predicting the team to be struggling going into the tournament losing 5 out of 7. Last year they struggled down the stretch in the regular season, but got momentum going in the Big East tournament. I think he has a very legitimate concern with lack of depth and players being tired... Look at CJ's defensive effort down the stretch of some games. Against NC State there were possessions where he barely moved on the defensive end. Thier are many ways to get players some breathers... A quick sub out before a media timeout is usually a way for a nice break.
Just cause this poster doesn't have a ton of posts doesn't mean he can't share his opinion and be objective. He wasn't bashing players or being a jerk. This is the reason why I'm more or a reader on this board and not a volume poster...just not always worth it to post your opinions

Good post.

 

[kuethstheman]

- Roberson, the #31st ranked recruit (ESPN), did not have benefit of playing in those Canadian games, but to think that Jerami Grant was suffering with back pain and we STILL could not find time for such a highly ranked prospect to get some game experience, seems pretty shocking to me.

Actually, JB DID find minutes for him (he started one game) but found him lacking. If he's the best of the bench, then any minutes given to any of the lesser freshman would have been wasted and probably harmful.

JB is stubborn and there's some reason to believe that things might be better if he'd used his bench more. Even so, there isn't a single person here who knows enough to have an informed opinion. For those spouting off, please spare us your c0ck-sure attitude on this topic.